i kissed the hajr e aswad loads of times, wasn't pushed etc. felt so peaceful whilst mi head was in there anyway yaq'ub, that wasn't the answer i was looking for.

riyadh ul jannah is what it is because of the grave of the prophet (saw). so how can objects not be important? the fountain of kauther will be under the pulpit of the prophet (saw), why? because the feet of the prophet would touch it when delivering the sermon.

Imam Bukhari
Baab 5: babul fadhli ma baynal kabri wal mimbari

Noor wrote:

i kissed the hajr e aswad loads of times, wasn't pushed etc. felt so peaceful whilst mi head was in there anyway yaq'ub, that wasn't the answer i was looking for.

riyadh ul jannah is what it is because of the grave of the prophet (saw). so how can objects not be important? the fountain of kauther will be under the pulpit of the prophet (saw), why? because the feet of the prophet would touch it when delivering the sermon.

Imam Bukhari
Baab 5: babul fadhli ma baynal kabri wal mimbari

erm... "maa bayne baytee" as in house not grave.

As for physical things to remember Allah, the prophet, Islam by - if they are misused, IMO that does not mean they should be removed, rather the misuse should be prevented.

Noor wrote:

i kissed the hajr e aswad loads of times, wasn't pushed etc.

Masha'Allah. That was quite different from my experience. Don't get me wrong, I had my own miracle there, but it was despite the other people around me, not because of it.

sorry, that was something else (not my notes). that was narrated by hz zaid.

anyway, people don't misuse the sites, they don't start worshiping them and what have you, only a small minority do that, i am yet to come in contact with someone who does. that is over hyped.

Ya'qub wrote:

Noor wrote:

i kissed the hajr e aswad loads of times, wasn't pushed etc.

Masha'Allah. That was quite different from my experience. Don't get me wrong, I had my own miracle there, but it was despite the other people around me, not because of it.

miracle? hows that a miracle? actually i was kinda pushed but i didn't realise.

Noor wrote:

miracle? hows that a miracle? actually i was kinda pushed but i didn't realise.

of course it is a miracle!

I never even attempted to get anywhere near it when I went last year! I thought it would cause more damage than good.

I have heard stories where the ihram has been torn off people trying to get to the Hajr Aswad.

You wrote:

As for physical things to remember Allah, the prophet, Islam by - if they are misused, IMO that does not mean they should be removed, rather the misuse should be prevented.

I agree...but within limits. The mosque simply HAS to be the size it is, in order to accommodate the fact there are over 1 billion more Muslims than there were 1400 years ago. I don't think its practical to make it a museum, if so many people are obligated by Allah (swt) to visit it.

I went to the Pyramids, and 100 years ago people were allowed to climb them as much as they liked, but because more and more people came, they were getting damaged, and so they had to stop allowing this.

The Angkor Wat temple in Cambodia is also getting damaged because of a huge number of visitors. The authorities are trying to cut down numbers for the same reason.

The only way to accommodate so many visitors to Mecca/Madina (and remember the visits are commanded by ALlah (swt), not merely tourist visits), is to rebuild the area with modern materials, and fill up the area with amenities. It is Allah's (swt) will that there are so many people. You can't say that He wasn't aware that they places would become so popular now, can you?

Everything happens by Allah's will (swt).

I am not arguing against the facilities in most cases, not even that really tall hotel.

However there can be excess is preventing people from potentially doing wrong at heritage sites. I hear it is really difficult to get to Uhud in Madinah (we only went to the small hillocks near the graveyard...)

PS the english translation at Uhud graveyard leaves much to be desired. It implies the Shuhadaa as dead.

On another note, I had absolutely no issue with the people there. They came across as mostly polite to me... except at the food courts, where there were bigger stampeded than at Hajr Aswad.

I was impressed by the Arabs and thought they were really hospitable.

A reason for the difference in experiences may be that most arabs seemed to also speak Urdu, but not many could speak english.

You wrote:

I am not arguing against the facilities in most cases, not even that really tall hotel.

However there can be excess is preventing people from potentially doing wrong at heritage sites. I hear it is really difficult to get to Uhud in Madinah (we only went to the small hillocks near the graveyard...)

PS the english translation at Uhud graveyard leaves much to be desired. It implies the Shuhadaa as dead.

Really? I went up mount Uhud, where the archers were supposed to keep their position but didn't. Noone wanted to take a picture of me posing as an archer, for some reason.

Is that the grave of Hamzah? or is that somewhere else. I can't remember it is all a haze now (and on Sunday I am going to the airport to see off 15 of my friends who are going this year for the same).

You wrote:

Noor wrote:

miracle? hows that a miracle? actually i was kinda pushed but i didn't realise.

of course it is a miracle!

I never even attempted to get anywhere near it when I went last year! I thought it would cause more damage than good.

I have heard stories where the ihram has been torn off people trying to get to the Hajr Aswad.

yah ive heard that happen. a lot of hijaabs got pulled too, mine was nice and tite! u went in ramadan so it was packed, it wasn't packed when we went. touched the door of the kabah too, stayed there clinging to the door for ages, and the kabah itself. no one pulled us of or anything.

You wrote:

A reason for the difference in experiences may be that most arabs seemed to also speak Urdu, but not many could speak english.

People there were lovely. I saw the very best (and the very worst) of the human condition.

People might not speak English but were very happy to recite Qur'an together and smile.

Noor wrote:

touched the door of the kabah too, stayed there clinging to the door for ages, and the kabah itself. no one pulled us of or anything.

Did it fly off and take you to Paradise?

Ya'qub wrote:

You wrote:

I am not arguing against the facilities in most cases, not even that really tall hotel.

However there can be excess is preventing people from potentially doing wrong at heritage sites. I hear it is really difficult to get to Uhud in Madinah (we only went to the small hillocks near the graveyard...)

PS the english translation at Uhud graveyard leaves much to be desired. It implies the Shuhadaa as dead.

Really? I went up mount Uhud, where the archers were supposed to keep their position but didn't. Noone wanted to take a picture of me posing as an archer, for some reason.

Is that the grave of Hamzah? or is that somewhere else. I can't remember it is all a haze now (and on Sunday I am going to the airport to see off 15 of my friends who are going this year for the same).

theres a fence around the graves of the martyrs, how can u not remember!

Ya'qub wrote:

Noor wrote:

touched the door of the kabah too, stayed there clinging to the door for ages, and the kabah itself. no one pulled us of or anything.

Did it fly off and take you to Paradise?

well if it did i wouldn't be here, duh.

Ya'qub wrote:

Is that the grave of Hamzah? or is that somewhere else. I can't remember it is all a haze now (and on Sunday I am going to the airport to see off 15 of my friends who are going this year for the same).

Yup... there rest of the graves are also in the same graveyard, just slightly separated.

One thing I noticed though... I expected the graveyards to be bigger. Compare Jannatul baqee with graveyards in the UK is it is tiny in comparison.

Noor wrote:

theres a fence around the graves of the martyrs, how can u not remember!

I can remember the fence and the grave, I just wasn't sure if that was at Uhud or somewhere else. TBH I don't know why it would be somewhere else lol!

Ya'qub wrote:

Really? I went up mount Uhud, where the archers were supposed to keep their position but didn't. Noone wanted to take a picture of me posing as an archer, for some reason.

We had not guide... got a taxi to the place and that is what we were told. later heard that otehrs went to the mountain, where the archers were, also where the Prophet took refuge and drank water etc, but too late for us to go.

PS that well on uhud. has supposedly been blocked off with cement. Did you go there? is that true?

Ya'qub wrote:

I can remember the fence and the grave, I just wasn't sure if that was at Uhud or somewhere else. TBH I don't know why it would be somewhere else lol!

Information overload. Too much happening within a short period of time.

You wrote:

Ya'qub wrote:

Is that the grave of Hamzah? or is that somewhere else. I can't remember it is all a haze now (and on Sunday I am going to the airport to see off 15 of my friends who are going this year for the same).

Yup... there rest of the graves are also in the same graveyard, just slightly separated.

One thing I noticed though... I expected the graveyards to be bigger. Compare Jannatul baqee with graveyards in the UK is it is tiny in comparison.

I really liked the simple stones at the heads of the graves. I thought it was beautiful. Everything else seems ridiculous (no, that does not make me a wahabbi lol).

You wrote:

PS that well on uhud. has supposedly been blocked off with cement. Did you go there? is that true?

Didn't see a well. We didn't have a guide either, just a taxi which was a minibus.

Apparently it is tough to get to that place. I think it was MuslimSister who said she went there, but on the way (or on the way back) she got stuck and could not go up or down at one point.

You wrote:

On another note, I had absolutely no issue with the people there. They came across as mostly polite to me... except at the food courts, where there were bigger stampeded than at Hajr Aswad.

I was impressed by the Arabs and thought they were really hospitable.

A reason for the difference in experiences may be that most arabs seemed to also speak Urdu, but not many could speak english.

aye, i was quite surprised that no one screamed bidah, shirk, pulled you away etc. maybe i had a different experience to most people

eds going to have a nice surprise when he sees this thread

My taweez was tooken off me and i was shouted at by some guy saying in arabic i think this isnt the sunnah of the prophet and i just thought to myself that tire on your head is?

Funzo wrote:

My taweez was tooken off me and i was shouted at by some guy saying in arabic i think this isnt the sunnah of the prophet and i just thought to myself that tire on your head is?

That's not very nice of him. Anyway, what's a taweez?

it was quranic verse wrapped in cloth.

Funzo wrote:

it was quranic verse wrapped in cloth.

What's it for?

You can't really read it if it's wrapped around your head.

oooo touche!

But you have a point!