i done number 5 whilst turning away from the kaba or when moving away from the jali mubarak and also whilst turnin away from the Green Dome, that is all bout respect.

yup god is everywhere. hw can you turn your back to god?

to me number 5 signifies that people think it is a physical creation. and thus no deity.

i am gona agree with Sister Amber on this one....(no surprise i dont buy what the acusers say)

when you kiss your mums hand....are you worshipping her? no, its a sign of respect

i hope your not kissing your wife so as to worship her!!

people like Med jus like to make any old accusation without any basis

i have been to many graves....TO PAY MY RESPECTS....not worship, and NEVER have i seen food left there lol, it wud be funny to see tho!

[b]EDIT BY ADMIN[/b]

Hayder, no point making it personal.

People need to know what exactly Shirk is before they go applying it to everything they themselves think fit.

Committing Shirk is a grave sin….so is falsely accusing others of it.

We all need to be clear with our definitions. It is wrong to call something that is "haraam" in Islam as "Shirk".

if you did see any, would you take a bite?

Or is it there for some other reason?

its a lie that Med likes to throw around

like Qawali's bieng druggies

It's intresting to note that our pious predecessors used to think twice before declaring something “haraam” or “halaal”….they’d go out of their way to avoid doing this.

These were words that they didn’t throw about freely at all...cos knew knew of the dire consequence if they were wrong.

Times have really changed. The people in our time apply whatever we want to whatever we see fit....

"NaJ/19" wrote:

* Making ruku of the graves.
* Making sajdah to the graves.
* Making tawaaf of the graves.
* Kissing the graves.
* Reversing away from the graves in a show of excessive veneration for the graves.
* Decorating the graves with expensive bedding.
* Placing foodstuff at the graves.
* Arranging festivals and fairs at the graves

this is all shirk,
.

The Holy prophet has declared a sajda out of respect haraam for His Ummah-It is not Shirk.

Regarding kissing, I agree with brother Hayder, what’s the big deal?

I don’t know/heard of anyone who does Tawaaf around the grave….but as it has been pointed out-how exactly is this Shirk?

Regarding reversing away from the grave…I heard that our pious predecessors used to do this to their father out of extreme respect for them.

Decorating graves? Extravagance maybe, but not Shirk.

And the last two points you made…I don’t understand it and don’t know/heard of anyone who does that….but I still don’t see it as Shirk.

The one who commits Shirk has negated the Tawhid (oneness of Allah) and has therefore left Islam. So please be careful with your accusations…. and know how careful our knowledgeable pious predecessors were about this matter.

i agree totally with Muslim Sister. it is disgusting to label everything as shirk. the word has never left my lips yet and i hope it never does i dont even think it.

when i see a muslim doing something i dont do myself i first find out why they do it and usually there is a good reason, if there is no good reason and they are determined to follow their own way then i let them go their way as they leave me to mine

and Med i've just been reading what you think of qwali and i am pleased to tell anyone who cares that i love qwalies i absolutely love them i shed countless tears and think it is an excellent way to sharpen our love of Allah tala and His Beloved

i've also been to countless awlias graves and seen much food given to the poor in abundance

i ask the awlia for what i want safe in the knowledge that they are dearer to Allah and Allah will listen to them rather then just to me

but this too is a debate covered amply in other threads long ago

i see no reason to keep digging it up (excuse the pun) unless you just want to keep having a go at halva eating Braivi's like me i say its time to say you to your way and me to mine!

mashallah, once again Sister Seema, you said it better than me! lol

first of all, lemme say i made a mistake for labelling all them points SHIRK,i do apologise ppl...it was not meant to be..

the first three points are definetly shirk and come under KUFR,

the remaining leaving out 5 are clearly bidah,

soz 4 the fuss, i didnt expect such a reaction( frightening)

no more comments !

may ALLAH guide us to the straight path,ameen

I think when I grow up I want to finally have balance contentment and peace.

"Constantine" wrote:

I think when I grow up I want to finally have balance contentment and peace.

I WANT THAT NOW! got such a headache

for those who dont know, there are many different forms of shirk,shirke kabeera and shirk asghar are two of them

SHIRK doesnt just mean assigning partners to allah ta'alah.

"NaJ/19" wrote:

for those who dont know, there are many different forms of shirk,shirke kabeera and shirk asghar are two of them

SHIRK doesnt just mean assigning partners to allah ta'alah.

however with accusations of shirk, shirk akbar is implied.

Shirk asghar can be said about anything that stops one from remembering god.

When you just say shirk, shirk akbar in implied.

if you mean shirk asghar, it always needs to be clarified.

The shirk that will never be forgiven is shirk akbar. That is assigning partners to god.

So always be careful sister. (and no you did not originally mean shirk asghar).

WHATEVA i meant i know of, leave it at that now shall we

sis I just read your apology. it still contains innacuracies.

prostrating ifront of anything but Allah (as a sign of respect, not worship) is not shirk. It is haraam. So is ruk'uh.

Tawaaf I do not know of.

tawaaf is probably makrooh or haraam, but I dunno.

not turning your back is not bid'ah, but a sign of respect. Did the companions turn their back's to the prophet? I dunno.

The other points I cannot remember, so will leave them with the knowledge they have been answered before.

again, I ask just be careful. We all love putting to slaughter an erroneous statement. Nowt personal.

ive left out point 5, but from what i know the rest is correct, first 3 are shirk,the rest bidah

if i remember the book i got it from i'll point it out

im gonna leave it here
jazakallah anyway

k. We will agree to disagree

first 3 are shirk, if done as an act of worship.

However they can also be done as an act of respect. Here they are haraam, not shirk.

"Darth V-Hayder" wrote:

its a lie that Med likes to throw around

yes hayder u know best.

I am asking why do people leave food at the foot of graves. Feeding the poor is one thing, but what is it with leaving food at graves. This is a genuine qsn cos my relatives back home do it.

then your relatives at home need to be questioned and sorted out

to imply everyone does it is wrong, coz i for one have NEVER seen it happen

nor hav i seen Ruku of the graves. nor sajdah, i havnt heard of tawaaf of the graves.

kissing is a sign of respect or love.....i find that hard that anyone can argue its worshipping :roll:

reversing again is a sign of respect, decoration isnt usually expensive, but its again a sign of love if anything. i love my house, so i decorate it....i dislike my room so it looks a tip

festivals and fairs? lol

cant say ive seen a merry-go-round at any Darbaar

as i said before, some people like to exxaggerate and generalise unfortunately

"Darth V-Hayder" wrote:

then your relatives at home need to be questioned and sorted out

to imply everyone does it is wrong, coz i for one have NEVER seen it happen

im not implying that every1 does it. I refer you back to my previous posts. Dont make assumptions and put words into my mouth. I was merely asking why it is done.

Fairs and graves and merry go rounds?

Brother, i take you to the urs that they do in Mirpur and u see merry go rounds, and dancers, and musicals, and everything.

ask your cousins why they do it then, why ask us if you dont think we do it?

i doubt anyone here knows of, or does, leave food at graves. giving to the needy, yes, but not feeding the dead lol.

hmmm Mirpur.....i wont say more

joke. Well ive seen an Urs or two, and i hope to attend next years Urs....but i havnt seen fairs or anything of such nature.

Qawalis, Naats, Dua's etc....some people do possess more Jazbah, and can lose control....but its out of pure love

i chant at Old Trafford, am i worshipping? nah, i jus love the team. u gotta put it into prespective

I was asking you (plural) because I expected someone to explain the issue to me, how you take that to mean I think everyone here does that I dont know.

You can chant what you like, and go where u like brother. My duty is to say that the graves are places where you remember death, not a place for merriment and fesitivity. I have done my duty, alhamdulilla, the rest is upto you.

Truth has come and falsehood has perished, for falsehood by its very nature is doomed to perish.

"Darth V-Hayder" wrote:

to imply everyone does it is wrong, coz i for one have NEVER seen it happen

nor hav i seen Ruku of the graves. nor sajdah, i havnt heard of tawaaf of the graves.

kissing is a sign of respect or love.....i find that hard that anyone can argue its worshipping :roll:

reversing again is a sign of respect, decoration isnt usually expensive, but its again a sign of love if anything. i love my house, so i decorate it....i dislike my room so it looks a tip

festivals and fairs? lol

cant say ive seen a merry-go-round at any Darbaar

ROUND THE WORLD IN EIGHTY DAYS INNIT.

huh?!