"yashmaki" wrote:

P.S isn't mirpur also a city in kashmir?

Mirpur is a city and a district in Pakistani Kashmir.

Whats the background with this whole Kashmiri thing?

I think there is problem in the caste system where pakistani and kashmiri are concern I am jatt what ever that means, It stupid, but something we have to live with I am afraid, I guess it like how syhlet and dhaka people are with each other. Don't really know the kashmir situation all I know is that most of the people in our area we live see themselves as part pakistani but mostly kashmiri.

Do castes still matter for you guys?

I mean you do live in britain...

yep they still ramble on about it...

my kashmiri mate is a "seyed" they cliam to be decendents of the prophet muhammad, boy do they show off...

"Constantine" wrote:

Do castes still matter for you guys?

I mean you do live in britain...

Most people will say no, but you be surprise how many people still take pride in their identity. I know in a nearby town they actually have gangs named after their caste. It probably give them a sense of belonging or something. But it is slowly dying out with each generation, but it still there but just not as much importance placed on it.

"yuit" wrote:

"Constantine" wrote:

Do castes still matter for you guys?

I mean you do live in britain...

Most people will say no, but you be surprise how many people still take pride in their identity. I know in a nearby town they actually have gangs named after their caste. It probably give them a sense of belonging or something. But it is slowly dying out with each generation, but it still there but just not as much importance placed on it.

It's good thats dying then...

Identity is important, but I think the west is a refuge from that sort of stuff for the "less desirable" people. Although in fairness I don't really know much about the caste system other than the untouchables thing with Ghandi.

"Judda" wrote:

yep they still ramble on about it...

my kashmiri mate is a "seyed" they cliam to be decendents of the prophet muhammad, boy do they show off...

thats dangerous...

"*RuBy*" wrote:

So do all the pakistani cultural groups get on o do some of them think they're more higher in rank than others? I find this interestin coz i got loadsa paki mates but jus feel awkward wen i see them coz i dont kno much bout their backgroud.

in UK they tend to get on.

Castes is one division. In UK it dont matter AS much cos here all castes are muddled up and live next to each other.
But in the village the castes all live in their seperate neighbourhoods. There its more apparent and still has big influence.
Eg in our village the ones who claim descent from arabs are on one side of village. We, the Qurayshis live clustered together, and then nearby - closer to the centre- live the Sayyids. Then on other side of village the Chawdhrys live together bunched up and really far out the ''low'' castes, those whose trades are deemed ''lowly'' live.

The second division is on ethnicity.
Generalising there are Five ethnicities: muhajir, punjabi, pathan, balouchi, sindhi.

Of these perhaps muhajir are most hated. But thats all subjective, I personally have issues with many muhajirs but thats a story for another day.

A friend of mine at college was griping about something interesting in class today, and a pakistani visiting student jumped on it.

White people and Islam.

He is black, and NOI so he considers himself a muslim although you guys might not be in agreement there - anyway he was saying that every time a white person converts to Islam muslims make a huge deal out of it; he pointed out that at least in the US many black people convert to Islam regularly but there it's no thing; but when a white guy converts, depending on who they are it's this really big deal.

He also pointed out that if they mention black people converting its never mentioned they are black - they are "americans" or "urban people" but when a white converts the race issue is big.

Here's an example http://www.islamfortoday.com/england01.htm

Anybody agree with that?

yeh i agree with tha, in that it happens.

But I see no significance in it. So what if such and such a boxer becomes muslim, or such and such a snooker player became muslim, or such and such a cricketer became muslim. Respectively, black, white, and paki sportsmen.

My faith is not dependent nor encouraged by others coming into islaam. I dont see it as a big issue, if they become muslim then Im happy 4 them, but no need to get over the top.

"Med" wrote:

yeh i agree with tha, in that it happens.

But I see no significance in it. So what if such and such a boxer becomes muslim, or such and such a snooker player became muslim, or such and such a cricketer became muslim. Respectively, black, white, and paki sportsmen.

My faith is not dependent nor encouraged by others coming into islaam. I dont see it as a big issue, if they become muslim then Im happy 4 them, but no need to get over the top.

In context his larger point was that black people are undesirable for most... I dunno if "black is beautiful" would mean anything to you because I think it's part of the american racial dialogue but basically I think his challenge was that there are cultural stigmas in the modern world about blacks that make them undesirable.

It's an old Panther position

"yuit" wrote:

I think there is problem in the caste system where pakistani and kashmiri are concern I am jatt what ever that means, It stupid, but something we have to live with I am afraid,

why does stupid cast have to matter....wheneva my uncle comes from london he has to mention 'IM A JATT' so what...this cast system is of the hook couldnt really care what we are.

lol, maybe when u have kids , u might change ur minds, and only look for a jatt for them.

"yashmaki" wrote:

oi med don't diss bengalis just coz they can cook fish llool. My brothers mates diss us coz we eat fish. But they're always asking for an invite to try it! But maybe ud be surprised to know we eat meat too not just fish. Where ever did this idea come that all bengalis just eat fish?

I LOVE FISH.....seriously its better than meat, my mum makes lovely fish salan walah its delicious...

when i learn how to cook INSHALLAH the first thing is fish salan, will probably make it ALL de time whether huzzy likes it or not lol,

i thought bengalis eat alot of fish...no wonder alot of bengalis i know have beautiful hair and they tend to eat alot of boiled rice...also a fan of boiled rice with salan.

"Med" wrote:

lol, maybe when u have kids , u might change ur minds, and only look for a jatt for them.

lol or maybe they will completely freak you out and marry a muslim from Russia or something.

Culture shock!!

"naj" wrote:

"yashmaki" wrote:

oi med don't diss bengalis just coz they can cook fish llool. My brothers mates diss us coz we eat fish. But they're always asking for an invite to try it! But maybe ud be surprised to know we eat meat too not just fish. Where ever did this idea come that all bengalis just eat fish?

I LOVE FISH.....seriously its better than meat, my mum makes lovely fish salan walah its delicious...

when i learn how to cook INSHALLAH the first thing is fish salan, will probably make it ALL de time whether huzzy likes it or not lol,

i thought bengalis eat alot of fish...no wonder alot of bengalis i know have beautiful hair and they tend to eat alot of boiled rice...also a fan of boiled rice with salan.

u sure ur mom didnt take rong baby home from hospital. All the signs point to u being a bengali; it all seems a bit fishy to me.

"Med" wrote:

Of these perhaps muhajir are most hated. But thats all subjective, I personally have issues with many muhajirs but thats a story for another day.

Are Muhajir travellers?

From the village my parents have migrated from in pakistan they also have Muhajirs who are travellers but now that trend has stopped but they are still called 'travellers', thats the same as another group or caste who used to beg, they are still called beggers even though they aint (its just their identity). Like yuit im also 'jatt' but that does not mean anything to me.

I think Jatts are 'landowners', Mistrys are 'builders', Nai are 'barbers'....people are still called by these groups because its part of their identity i think.....it doesnt apply to us now living in britian coz u might get a family where the father is a 'taxi driver', brother is a 'hairdresser', other brother might be an engineer etc....its not like how it used to be where the sons had the same occupation as the father and so on.

By the way i am Sunni Muslim, British born of Pakistani origin (and yes from Mirpur lol)

no muhajir are those who emigrated to pakistan from india on partition. Muhajir is no longer politically correct, they are urdu-speaking, thats how they are referred to now.

"Constantine" wrote:

"Med" wrote:

lol, maybe when u have kids , u might change ur minds, and only look for a jatt for them.

lol or maybe they will completely freak you out and marry a muslim from Russia or something.

Culture shock!!

LOL....i know this cast thing is an issue in my fam BUT im gonna change it all when it comes to my kids...if i see a decent sharif bloke or lady who are from the inferior casts i shall give them my childrens hand...couldnt care whether they come from that sorta background.

ok

"Med" wrote:

u sure ur mom didnt take rong baby home from hospital. All the signs point to u being a bengali; it all seems a bit fishy to me.

i WISH she did lol.... wouldnt mind being a bengali, thing is i've lived with bengalis innit so i've learnt to like what they like...really nice ppl ya know.

"naj" wrote:

"Constantine" wrote:

"Med" wrote:

lol, maybe when u have kids , u might change ur minds, and only look for a jatt for them.

lol or maybe they will completely freak you out and marry a muslim from Russia or something.

Culture shock!!

LOL....i know this cast thing is an issue in my fam BUT im gonna change it all when it comes to my kids...if i see a decent sharif bloke or lady who are from the inferior casts i shall give them my childrens hand...couldnt care whether they come from that sorta background.

lol you forgot to say inshallah

inshallah..

"naj" wrote:

"Med" wrote:

u sure ur mom didnt take rong baby home from hospital. All the signs point to u being a bengali; it all seems a bit fishy to me.

i WISH she did lol.... wouldnt mind being a bengali, thing is i've lived with bengalis innit so i've learnt to like what they like...really nice ppl ya know.

y do wish u she did?

Yeh, mashaALLAH there are some really good bengalis out there. Before where I used to live, we had bengali ulama families living on both sides of us. They had transmitters for adhan and bayaan fitted in their homes for their womenfolk, so we got adhan coming for free cos the noise would float across from both sides.

One of the families I really really liked, they observed hijaab bil buyuut; lived their for 6 yrs with them as neighbours and I swear in those 6 yrs could count on my fingers how many times we saw the women come out of front door.

MashaALLAH that family had only one small madrassah in alum rock and now they last yr bought a new building in another part of city and are working hard in establishing that madrassah. Some people from bham might know them, Mawlana Abdul Azeez Sahib is the father, and the sons are:

Mawlana Riyadh ul Haq (not the indian Mawlana)
Mawlana Badr ul Haq
Mawlana Fazl ul Haq
Mawlana In'aam ul Haq

I dunno their sisters.

my sis lives in that very area she seems to know all the bengalis, i'll find out!

i think it's common with bengalis to name all their sons something "ul" islam or "haq". All my brothers x ul islam but wid miah added on, talk about ruining the name.

Duno what I'm laughing about they ruined me with surname begum, otherwise im pretty damn happy with my name.

oh thanx for the compliments naj and med you're changing my prejudices about bengalis, maybe they aint so bad lol. I don't know many that practise though, maybe that's why i don't have many dealings with them.

East london is home to a lot of bengalis. Move over china town this is the land of Bangla town lol. Been there once and i duno i saw men walking about in longhis...not something i wana see i was kinder embarrassedl averted my gaze swiftly. If it's worn with a long top like malays wear it can look very nice otherwise immodest, mm i'm not keen on them.

On a more serious note this conference in leicester happens every year, and all of east london turn up. I never saw so many practising bengalis in my life, especially women, and not one sari in sight it really shocked me. So they do exist afterall!

The Ulama used to all live in small heath, now the brothers are married and all have moved out into their own houses except oldest Mawlana, who stays in same house.

Nah, enough bengalis are into deen. The madrassah on coventry road is run by bengali ulama mostly. If any1 knows bham then they shud know of the Darul Uloom on cov rd. MashaALLAH its a beautiful madrassah and masjid.

"yashmaki" wrote:

Duno what I'm laughing about they ruined me with surname begum, otherwise im pretty damn happy with my name.

I don't know many that practise though, maybe that's why i don't have many dealings with them.

lol begum....i think nearly all the bengalis at my madressah were begum and at my high school apart from some ahmeds, ALOT of girls at madressah were also bengali so there are enough practising ones..mostly from down south i think.

Anyone heard of "baigs"?