the heart and the soul are they the same thing then? because i can usually feel what is in my heart and i rely on it a lot but the soul it seems like a shady being hidden from me
i'd rather there was no other hidden thing and the soul [i]was[/i] my heart
have u Muslim Sister ever found out the difference or has anybody? - it would help alot to know this for sure.
I've always believed that the heart and the soul IS the same thing...this agitation that we feel in our heart when we do something wrong....or this coolness/peace that we feel in our heart when we do Dhikr is in actual fact what the soul is feeling.
I believe that the soul dwells in the heart.
Submitted by TEX on 17 September, 2006 - 19:18 #632
MS can you reccomend me any good books on sufism?
—
[color=red]"The best of people are those who live longest and excel in their deeds, whereas the worst of people are those who live longest and corrupt their deeds." [Tirmidhî, Sahîh] [/color]
lol i did notice there is a big sufi wannabe thing going on... what does it take to be a sufi anyway?
Hamza Yusuf is one right? Is everybody at Zaytuna?
Thing is...firstly, as angel pointed out, a Sufi would be far to humble to actually call him/herself a Sufi...
Also, to be a Sufi you have to be big on sacrifice, patience, turning the other cheek, be simple, have the BEST manners, be incredibly sincere, be really really considerate of others, you have to have all your desires under control, possess no love of praise…. etc etc
Which are things that are easily said then done.
It’s not easy to be a Sufi.
And yep, Shaykh Humza Yusuf is a Sufi, so is Shaykh Tahir ul Qadri.
Submitted by Dave on 17 September, 2006 - 22:58 #639
"MuslimSister" wrote:
Thing is...firstly, as angel pointed out, a Sufi would be far to humble to actually call him/herself a Sufi...
Also, to be a Sufi you have to be big on sacrifice, patience, turning the other cheek, be simple, have the BEST manners, be incredibly sincere, be really really considerate of others, you have to have all your desires under control, possess no love of praise…. etc etc
Which are things that are easily said then done.
It’s not easy to be a Sufi.
lol well I guess I'm pretty much excluded then. Question though, is a Sufi on a different pedestal than most Muslims? The way you are talking it seems like they are accorded a level of respect different than your average Sunni, yet I clearly remember certain clerics like Yusuf Estes severely disliking them, something about them being superstitiuos. So what is the general perception of Sufis? One step closer to God or one step closer to witchcraft?
Quote:
And yep, Shaykh Humza Yusuf is a Sufi, so is Shaykh Tahir ul Qadri.
It seems like Sufis have a higher propensity to be... oh whats the word... sane? Is the more relaxed nature something that accompanies the qualities you mentioned above or is it some sort of inner peace derived from the teachings?
A Sufi is the highest Muslim….he/she is the perfected Muslim. It’s the level that every Muslim must aspire to reach.
It’s not something separate from Islam….its just the higher level of Islam. God knows why some people have an issue in wanting to become a Sufi (but you usually find haters everywhere)
It’s wrong to believe that Sufi’s are into superstition….cos they are big on Trust in Allah. They're percieved as being closer to Allah.
Your right, they DO have a lot more inner peace and a relaxed/contented aura about them.
That’s one of the many benefits of reaching that level.
Submitted by Dave on 17 September, 2006 - 23:12 #641
"MuslimSister" wrote:
A Sufi is the highest Muslim….he/she is the perfected Muslim. It’s the level that every Muslim must aspire to reach.
It’s not something separate from Islam….its just the higher level of Islam. God knows why some people have an issue in wanting to become a Sufi (but you usually find haters everywhere)
It’s wrong to believe that Sufi’s are into superstition….cos they are big on Trust in Allah. They're percieved as being closer to Allah.
Your right, they DO have a lot more inner peace and a relaxed/contented aura about them.
That’s one of the many benefits of reaching that level.
How is one recognized as a "Sufi," do they have to subscribe to a certain set of principles or teachings, is it something conferred on them in an official sense after schooling and whatnot or is it just a matter of practicing it and people generally recognize you as one?
There is no offical qualification.... nor is this status conferred to them on an official sense.
Sufi's usually stand out cos of their fantastic manners, generous natures, they have this aura about them and are generally loved by most people cos of this love and patience they generate.
However, sadly not everyone can "see it".
It is said that one should never, ever intentionally break anyones heart...cos we don't know how much he/she may be loved by Allah (swt)....in other words, we may not know that one is a Sufi.
Submitted by You on 17 September, 2006 - 23:20 #643
"Odysseus" wrote:
lol i did notice there is a big sufi wannabe thing going on... what does it take to be a sufi anyway?
Being selfless. To such an extent that calling yourself a sufi is being selfish.
Quote:
Hamza Yusuf is one right? Is everybody at Zaytuna?
Dunno.
There is another definition aswell. being part of Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamaah more or less qualifies you there, but that is more about you accept sufism instead of being a sufi.
—
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Submitted by Dave on 17 September, 2006 - 23:23 #644
"MuslimSister" wrote:
You ask good questions. They get me thinking
lol at least one of us is.
"MuslimSister" wrote:
There is no offical qualification.... nor is this status conferred to them on an official sense.
Sufi's usually stand out cos of their fantastic manners, generous natures, they have this aura about them and are generally loved by most people cos of this love and patience they generate.
However, sadly not everyone can "see it".
It is said that one should never, ever intentionally break anyones heart...cos we don't know how much he/she may be loved by Allah (swt)....in other words, we may not know that one is a Sufi.
So basically these are people that reached the Islamic equivalent of Moksha, gotcha.
What is fanaa? Is it possible I could say that is what makes a Sufi a Sufi? "Tada you've arrived!" so to speak?
Submitted by Angel on 17 September, 2006 - 23:27 #645
"Odysseus" wrote:
What is fanaa?
Doesn't that mean to lose yourself into something/someone :? :oops:
Self-annihilation-Fana, is something that even I've not got my head around yet...
I don't think that, thats the "mark"...IMO, self-improvement...this journey to God can occupy one for the rest of their life.....but I'm not sure if I believe that its possible to reach there.
Cos perfection is something that one can strive, work towards etc but never quite reach totally....not in this life anyway.
Submitted by Dave on 17 September, 2006 - 23:31 #647
"Angel" wrote:
"Odysseus" wrote:
What is fanaa?
Doesn't that mean to lose yourself into something/someone :? :oops:
Rumi describes it like a moth to the flame. The flame being God and you being the Moth, and the moth wanting (in an attraction sense) to be destroyed in the flame. It is the complete loss of ones self into God - just living for him and what he wants and have nothing of your life for yourself.
Submitted by Angel on 17 September, 2006 - 23:34 #648
Maulana Rumi's (ra) poetry is a perfect way of knowing what Sufism is, I dont like poetry but his is an exception, its just the way he expresses the love of Allah (swt), amazing!
Submitted by Dave on 17 September, 2006 - 23:36 #649
I've heard disquieting rumors about his personal life and "the real meaning" of his poetry that makes it difficult for me to enjoy his poems.
Liberals, they ruin everything.
Submitted by Angel on 17 September, 2006 - 23:39 #650
Some people like to chat rubbish. If these rumours were true I couldn't see myself being lost into his poems
Submitted by Dave on 17 September, 2006 - 23:44 #651
Ah there is no truth in it at all - you know academics, they have complete proof anybody of significance in history was gay...
The problem is its like association now, you read his poems after somebody tells you that and you know its not true but it still comes out anyway.
All so somebody could make a better dissertation at Berkley.
Yes, I can blame liberals for everything, call it a talent.
Submitted by salaf on 18 September, 2006 - 00:35 #652
"MuslimSister" wrote:
Thing is...firstly, as angel pointed out, a Sufi would be far to humble to actually call him/herself a Sufi...
Kind of makes you wonder about the "Sufi Muslim Council".
Submitted by TEX on 18 September, 2006 - 15:09 #653
"MuslimSister" wrote:
I don't think that, thats the "mark"...
is this the mark u mean :?:
48:29 Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. And those who are with him are hard against the disbelievers but tender among themselves. Thou seest them bowing and prostrating themselves in Prayer, seeking Allah's grace and pleasure. [b]Their marks are upon their faces, being the traces of prostrations[/b]. This is their description in the Torah. And their description in the Gospel is like unto a seed-produce that sends forth its sprout, then makes it strong; it then becomes stout, and stands firm on its stem, delighting the sowers - That HE may cause the disbelievers to boil with rage at the sight of them. Allah has promised, unto those of them, who believe and do good works, forgiveness and a great reward.
i heard some ppl put a stone on the floor and rubbed there forheads during salah when they are prostarating so they get the "mark".... ouch :x
some muslims take the "mark as symbolic and not litral
—
[color=red]"The best of people are those who live longest and excel in their deeds, whereas the worst of people are those who live longest and corrupt their deeds." [Tirmidhî, Sahîh] [/color]
Submitted by iRazor on 18 September, 2006 - 16:13 #654
"salaf" wrote:
"MuslimSister" wrote:
Thing is...firstly, as angel pointed out, a Sufi would be far to humble to actually call him/herself a Sufi...
Kind of makes you wonder about the "Sufi Muslim Council".
LOL, I think nowadays, when sum1 calls themselves a "sufi", it means they are sum1 who ascribe to the ideals, who beleve it to be the perfect way of life, and who wish they could attain and acheive that status.
—
_____________- -SupeRazor- -_______________
Some ppl make their goals the stars.
They may live n die n never reach the stars,
but in the darkness of the night, those stars will guide them to their destination.
Becuz they made them in their eyesight
Submitted by Beast on 18 September, 2006 - 17:17 #655
"salaf" wrote:
"MuslimSister" wrote:
Thing is...firstly, as angel pointed out, a Sufi would be far to humble to actually call him/herself a Sufi...
Kind of makes you wonder about the "Sufi Muslim Council".
So Salaf, what do you make of the SMC?
Submitted by salaf on 18 September, 2006 - 17:41 #656
"Beast" wrote:
"salaf" wrote:
"MuslimSister" wrote:
Thing is...firstly, as angel pointed out, a Sufi would be far to humble to actually call him/herself a Sufi...
Kind of makes you wonder about the "Sufi Muslim Council".
So Salaf, what do you make of the SMC?
They're calling themselves sufis as a way of indicating they are apolitical and friendly to the government. I doubt they'll exist in a year.
In fact judging by their website it's possible they don't exist now.
Submitted by Omrow on 19 September, 2006 - 21:42 #657
48:29 Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. And those who are with him are hard against the disbelievers but tender among themselves. Thou seest them bowing and prostrating themselves in Prayer, seeking Allah's grace and pleasure. [b]Their marks are upon their faces, being the traces of prostrations[/b]. This is their description in the Torah. And their description in the Gospel is like unto a seed-produce that sends forth its sprout, then makes it strong; it then becomes stout, and stands firm on its stem, delighting the sowers - That HE may cause the disbelievers to boil with rage at the sight of them. Allah has promised, unto those of them, who believe and do good works, forgiveness and a great reward.
i heard some ppl put a stone on the floor and rubbed there forheads during salah when they are prostarating so they get the "mark".... ouch :x
some muslims take the "mark as symbolic and not litral
mark on forehead cud also be neurotic tissue
Submitted by Beast on 20 September, 2006 - 17:50 #659
I've always believed that the heart and the soul IS the same thing...this agitation that we feel in our heart when we do something wrong....or this coolness/peace that we feel in our heart when we do Dhikr is in actual fact what the soul is feeling.
I believe that the soul dwells in the heart.
MS can you reccomend me any good books on sufism?
[color=red]"The best of people are those who live longest and excel in their deeds, whereas the worst of people are those who live longest and corrupt their deeds." [Tirmidhî, Sahîh] [/color]
Purification of the heart by Shaykh Humza Yusuf is fantastic for beginners.
However, the “Secrets of Secrets” by Sheikh Abdul Qadir Jillani (ra) is better for the more advanced Sufi Wannabe’s
And any book by Imam Ghazzali is for the more educated, philosophical Sufi Wannabe’s.
Is anybody here a Sufi?
lol to be honest Dave I don't think a sufi would ever admit he/she is a Sufi (if that makes sense!)
Possibly.
But I know that there're a lot of wannabe's here, with me being one of them.
lol i did notice there is a big sufi wannabe thing going on... what does it take to be a sufi anyway?
Hamza Yusuf is one right? Is everybody at Zaytuna?
Thing is...firstly, as angel pointed out, a Sufi would be far to humble to actually call him/herself a Sufi...
Also, to be a Sufi you have to be big on sacrifice, patience, turning the other cheek, be simple, have the BEST manners, be incredibly sincere, be really really considerate of others, you have to have all your desires under control, possess no love of praise…. etc etc
Which are things that are easily said then done.
It’s not easy to be a Sufi.
And yep, Shaykh Humza Yusuf is a Sufi, so is Shaykh Tahir ul Qadri.
lol well I guess I'm pretty much excluded then. Question though, is a Sufi on a different pedestal than most Muslims? The way you are talking it seems like they are accorded a level of respect different than your average Sunni, yet I clearly remember certain clerics like Yusuf Estes severely disliking them, something about them being superstitiuos. So what is the general perception of Sufis? One step closer to God or one step closer to witchcraft?
It seems like Sufis have a higher propensity to be... oh whats the word... sane? Is the more relaxed nature something that accompanies the qualities you mentioned above or is it some sort of inner peace derived from the teachings?
A Sufi is the highest Muslim….he/she is the perfected Muslim. It’s the level that every Muslim must aspire to reach.
It’s not something separate from Islam….its just the higher level of Islam. God knows why some people have an issue in wanting to become a Sufi (but you usually find haters everywhere)
It’s wrong to believe that Sufi’s are into superstition….cos they are big on Trust in Allah. They're percieved as being closer to Allah.
Your right, they DO have a lot more inner peace and a relaxed/contented aura about them.
That’s one of the many benefits of reaching that level.
How is one recognized as a "Sufi," do they have to subscribe to a certain set of principles or teachings, is it something conferred on them in an official sense after schooling and whatnot or is it just a matter of practicing it and people generally recognize you as one?
You ask good questions. They get me thinking
There is no offical qualification.... nor is this status conferred to them on an official sense.
Sufi's usually stand out cos of their fantastic manners, generous natures, they have this aura about them and are generally loved by most people cos of this love and patience they generate.
However, sadly not everyone can "see it".
It is said that one should never, ever intentionally break anyones heart...cos we don't know how much he/she may be loved by Allah (swt)....in other words, we may not know that one is a Sufi.
Being selfless. To such an extent that calling yourself a sufi is being selfish.
Dunno.
There is another definition aswell. being part of Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamaah more or less qualifies you there, but that is more about you accept sufism instead of being a sufi.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
lol at least one of us is.
So basically these are people that reached the Islamic equivalent of Moksha, gotcha.
What is fanaa? Is it possible I could say that is what makes a Sufi a Sufi? "Tada you've arrived!" so to speak?
Doesn't that mean to lose yourself into something/someone :? :oops:
Self-annihilation-Fana, is something that even I've not got my head around yet...
I don't think that, thats the "mark"...IMO, self-improvement...this journey to God can occupy one for the rest of their life.....but I'm not sure if I believe that its possible to reach there.
Cos perfection is something that one can strive, work towards etc but never quite reach totally....not in this life anyway.
Rumi describes it like a moth to the flame. The flame being God and you being the Moth, and the moth wanting (in an attraction sense) to be destroyed in the flame. It is the complete loss of ones self into God - just living for him and what he wants and have nothing of your life for yourself.
Maulana Rumi's (ra) poetry is a perfect way of knowing what Sufism is, I dont like poetry but his is an exception, its just the way he expresses the love of Allah (swt), amazing!
I've heard disquieting rumors about his personal life and "the real meaning" of his poetry that makes it difficult for me to enjoy his poems.
Liberals, they ruin everything.
Some people like to chat rubbish. If these rumours were true I couldn't see myself being lost into his poems
Ah there is no truth in it at all - you know academics, they have complete proof anybody of significance in history was gay...
The problem is its like association now, you read his poems after somebody tells you that and you know its not true but it still comes out anyway.
All so somebody could make a better dissertation at Berkley.
Yes, I can blame liberals for everything, call it a talent.
Kind of makes you wonder about the "Sufi Muslim Council".
is this the mark u mean :?:
48:29 Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. And those who are with him are hard against the disbelievers but tender among themselves. Thou seest them bowing and prostrating themselves in Prayer, seeking Allah's grace and pleasure. [b]Their marks are upon their faces, being the traces of prostrations[/b]. This is their description in the Torah. And their description in the Gospel is like unto a seed-produce that sends forth its sprout, then makes it strong; it then becomes stout, and stands firm on its stem, delighting the sowers - That HE may cause the disbelievers to boil with rage at the sight of them. Allah has promised, unto those of them, who believe and do good works, forgiveness and a great reward.
i heard some ppl put a stone on the floor and rubbed there forheads during salah when they are prostarating so they get the "mark".... ouch :x
some muslims take the "mark as symbolic and not litral
[color=red]"The best of people are those who live longest and excel in their deeds, whereas the worst of people are those who live longest and corrupt their deeds." [Tirmidhî, Sahîh] [/color]
LOL, I think nowadays, when sum1 calls themselves a "sufi", it means they are sum1 who ascribe to the ideals, who beleve it to be the perfect way of life, and who wish they could attain and acheive that status.
_____________- -SupeRazor- -_______________
Some ppl make their goals the stars.
They may live n die n never reach the stars,
but in the darkness of the night, those stars will guide them to their destination.
Becuz they made them in their eyesight
So Salaf, what do you make of the SMC?
They're calling themselves sufis as a way of indicating they are apolitical and friendly to the government. I doubt they'll exist in a year.
In fact judging by their website it's possible they don't exist now.
Yes. The Binger, naturally.
mark on forehead cud also be neurotic tissue
[url=http://www.peoples.ru/state/king/russia/gorbachev/gorbachev_michail.jpg]... this[/url]?
LOL
its a bit high up to be a sajda mark anyway
but many muslims do have that on their forehead and its neurotic tissue but ppl mistake it as a sign on piety
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