"Constantine" wrote:

What?

Need some clarification on this...

this is a Islamic ruling which ONLY can be implemented in the prescence of an Islamic court

after the judge decide's

any Tom, Dick and Med can not get up and kill their kids just cos they renounced Islam

and im sure theymust have to do sumat really bad, not jus stop practicing

If a muslim under khilafah leaves his faith (not stop practising, but leave..), he has to leave the community or face the death sentence.

As MuslimSisLilSis has said, it is only through the court that this can be implemented, and even then there are probably some caveats.

I see

you see?

I myself have not really studied this matter, but that is how I understand it.

question to other muslims:

historically what has the Qadi's verdict been in such cases? Has it been certain death?

lol so let me get this straight.

A Christian "reverts" to Islam and yall throw a party, meanwhile a Muslim converts to Christianity in this ubervirtuous muslim state and you start sharpening the blade?

Why does the eternal law of God need to be enforced with the edge of a sword?

What exactly is a person like me supposed to think of this lilsis and Admin?

Why hasnt this been mentioned before when you were talking about how tolerant Islam was?

why hasn't it? its normally one of the first questions someone asks.

you did realise other religions cannot preach to muslims in an islamic state?

A person cannot be coerced or forced to believe in any religion.

If a person has chosen to enter the fold of Islam, with full knowledge of his actions, a same mind, and is mature enough to understand his decision will already know about this issue, and should consider it seriously before accepting Islam.

Once he has accepted Islam, he is in the fold and the rules do change.

He has to deal with the consequences if he openly rejects islam in an islamic state.

Tge four schools of thought and shia's are both unanimous about this.

Regarding someone born muslim I am not sure. It is still the same punishment from what I do know.

Thanks Admin, that pretty much clears it up for me.

does what I posted actually make a difference?

Is it not the same as already said? or is it different? or does it give more info?

And you still disagree? (I would think so... its not something that non-muslims are supposed to celebrate about...)

What is the reaction within a Christian household/family/community if someone leaves the faith and reverts to Islam or turns to another faith? What does Christianity say of this?

"Admin" wrote:

If a muslim under khilafah leaves his faith (not stop practising, but leave..), he has to leave the community or face the death sentence.

ASTAGFIRULLAH :!: :shock: :!: :shock: :!: :shock: :!:

That is what the devil wants u freaks.

Gods book NEVER said that. :!:

Freedom is God's great gift to humans. The Quran, the Holy Scripture of Islam, mandates religious freedom in verse 2:256, "There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way." And in verse 18:29, "Proclaim: 'This is the truth from your Lord,' then whoever wills let him believe, and whoever wills let him disbelieve".

r u off ur heads?

i am sick of u lot. :x

Yuit was right, i do have the intellegence of a 20 year old .

"Aphrodite" wrote:

What is the reaction within a Christian household/family/community if someone leaves the faith and reverts to Islam or turns to another faith? What does Christianity say of this?

n medieval times the convert wuld have been killed as a traitor…

nowadays some families wuld be upset and prob send the vicar around to talk him out of it and apply other devious methods of physiological blackmail…others would be disappointed but allow the individual to make his choice…

IMO…ppl have the freedom to believe wotever they want…no priest, rabbi, iman or any other religious authority has da right to force a religion on anyone, regardless of where dey live or wot religion they claim to represent…killin someone cos they dont wanna be part of da crew is murder plain and simple...

:!:

"Admin" wrote:

why hasn't it? its normally one of the first questions someone asks.

you did realise other religions cannot preach to muslims in an islamic state?

A person cannot be coerced or forced to believe in any religion.

If a person has chosen to enter the fold of Islam, with full knowledge of his actions, a same mind, and is mature enough to understand his decision will already know about this issue, and should consider it seriously before accepting Islam.

Once he has accepted Islam, he is in the fold and the rules do change.

He has to deal with the consequences if he openly rejects islam in an islamic state.

Tge four schools of thought and shia's are both unanimous about this.

Regarding someone born muslim I am not sure. It is still the same punishment from what I do know.

so how does dat fit in with the "let there be no compulsion in religion" bit?

does dat apply only to non-muslims?

no compulsion to accept Islam.

"Judda" wrote:

[u]Freedom is God's great gift to humans[/u]. The Quran, the Holy Scripture of Islam, mandates religious freedom in verse 2:256, "[u]There shall be no compulsion in religion[/u]: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way." And in verse 18:29, "Proclaim: 'This is the truth from your Lord,' then whoever wills let him believe, and [u]whoever wills let him disbelieve[/u]".

i REFUSE to follow a religion that kills ppl if they want to convert to something else :!:

it is flat out unnaceptable :!:

shall i just declare my self as a kafir now?

If you reject Islam you are not a muslim.

Your choice.

deleted

is it jus me or is this thread goin a bit off topic?

anyway if sum1 was a muslim i cnt see why they wud wana change to anythin else. u hear of ppl convertin to islam evryday, how many times ave u herd of sum1 convertin to sumthin else frm islam?

Quote:

If a muslim under khilafah leaves his faith (not stop practising, but leave..), he has to leave the community or face the death sentence.

if u wer in a nice clean shiny kitchen n then there was a bit of mess on da floor. wot wud u do with it? u'd clean it up, remove it, wud u not?. if u left it ther, the germs frm da mess wud spread mkin mre mess n mkin da kitchen a melly place, rite? now, think of the kitchen as the islamic state, all da shiny clean bits of the kitchen r the ppl in it n then the mess is the person who has decided to become a disbeliever. if the disbeliever stays in the state then he'll be doin haram things n influence the others n this disbelief will spread. so it mkes sense to get the disbeliever to leave the community or get rid of them. now excuse da analogy, its not da best in da world n its kinda lamei no but i think it works n gets da point across... sort of anyway

"seema*" wrote:

Many years ago I read the Koran's translation and with the opening soorat i realised that had i not been a Muslim i would be after reading that.

Islam has shown me how to love, it is a love like no other.

i find that our natures are preprogrammed to accept Islam. All the humanitarian tendancies we have, all that is pure in us is drawn to Islam

i feel that without this gift i would be an animal lost in the haze of materialism and uncertainty, hard like a stone without purpose, without the knowledge of true love

everything i did would be a poor imitation

i thought i'd give this a second airing but reading it again it sounds as if i am who i am and Islam just fits in with the personality where i can get it to fit

but in reality i cant really tell how much of our basic instincts and persuasions are moulded by Islam and or is the other way round

do we really follow what our natures allow us to. ie if we have a soft nature then we are drawn to the middle road of Islam harsher natures towards hardline Islam

and how many times do we appose our nature and take on an interpretation of Islam which defys our nature?

for example from since i could think i have had socialist liberal tendancies and thought that people were only joking when they believed in conservative philosopies - i saw all the things that agreed with my nature in Islam but i wonder how much of that was actually knowing Islam and how much was it my own nature and how much it has been by own interpretation and perception of Islam

i ask this of myself as clearly we all differ in our approach to the world and its people and yet we all follow the same Islam

Good topic.

I think that there was a quote by Hazrat Ali (ra) that made me see the beauty of islam. I been looking for it for ages and haven't been able to find it and I know i wouldn't be able to do it justice. Basically it went as long the line of the non believer lives a horrid life base on whim and desires and dies without hope, while the muslims live a life of beauty and peace and dies with the hope of everlasting bliss. This statement IMO is so true and it allow me to take a step back and analyse everything around me.

I realise that everything in that quote was manifesting in front of me, people who were into drugs and drink were falling deeper into their desires and losing sense of reality basing their life around 10-20 minutes of a short term buzz and feeling at peace with themselves for small period only, while I found that Islam could give you that same feeling permanetly just by making some long term chnages and taking yourself away from ur desires. Basically islam give you the foundation and the structure to make changes but most important it gives you hope.

"Admin" wrote:

If a muslim under khilafah leaves his faith (not stop practising, but leave..), he has to leave the community or face the death sentence.

As MuslimSisLilSis has said, it is only through the court that this can be implemented, and even then there are probably some caveats.

Fair enough but what if instead of just leaving Islam, the person also converts to Christianity, still exile or death? (cos there is a view that Christians and Jews are also believers.)

To be homest... I have not studies this subject...

christians/jews are people of the book. not muslims. their beliefs are wrong. They do not believe n the finality of prophethood with the Prophet (saw). Christians are very close to shirk, or have crossed well into it comparing to muslim beliefs.

So it would eb same ruling.

However there is a coercion clause. If someone is coerced into leaving Islam, the punishment is not the same.

Best bet here is to email 'Ed and ask hi to get a proper scholarly answer from Shaykh Salim Giza. I am nto a scholar, and can be wrong.

lazy boy why are u digging up old topics?

anyway-why am I a Muslim?

cos I know I should be

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

lazy boy why are u digging up old topics?

anyway-why am I a Muslim?

cos I know I should be

wrong answer. Because your parents were muslims, and they brought you up as a muslim.

If you had not been born muslim, and brought up muslim, right about this age you may ave been looking into religion, and may have by now accepted islam. Or you may have been outside partying without a care for religion... that dilemma has been removed.

Being a muslim is a gift from Allah (swt). An even greater one is that we did not need to 'find' the gift. I am not sure if we all would have become muslims if we were not born into muslim families.

We should be greatful for this gift.

"Admin" wrote:

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

lazy boy why are u digging up old topics?

anyway-why am I a Muslim?

cos I know I should be

wrong answer. Because your parents were muslims, and they brought you up as a muslim.

.

actually ur answer is wrong

I'm not ONLY a Muslim cos my parents are Muslims

if that was the case-whats stopping me from renouncing this religion?

they dont force me to cover or avoid haraam-I do this myself- cos I know I should