love to live but living to die wrote:

Seraphim wrote:

Try to use some logic ppl. Who wants the stress of 86 wives... do you know how much that is in Child Maintenance?

I could laugh here ...

lol, you gotta admit its a valid point. If you sire so many kids than you're really under an obligation to take care of them. And lets face it, every woman would eventually want a kid of their own (or atleast the sane ones will) and then the guy would have to provide for the lil ones. So unless he's a multi-billionaire he cant really afford to...

so imo he should just keep his pants on you know what i mean.

Seraph, you got it all wrong!

you only have to pay child maintenance if you divorce/leave your wife. If you are still together you get child SUPPORT from the government. £15 a week or something, isn't it? Well this guy has 158 kids so that works out at £2370 a week INCOME! Plus he's retired so you can add a pension, which all adds up to a tidy amount to live on (especially considering he doesn't have to do any actual work...he could even get a cash-in-hand job to fill up his time).

That would be if he was in Britain instead of rural Nigeria, and if marrying multiple wives was legal here. Hmm...

Ya'qub wrote:

Seraph, you got it all wrong!

you only have to pay child maintenance if you divorce/leave your wife. If you are still together you get child SUPPORT from the government. £15 a week or something, isn't it? Well this guy has 158 kids so that works out at £2370 a week INCOME! Plus he's retired so you can add a pension, which all adds up to a tidy amount to live on (especially considering he doesn't have to do any actual work...he could even get a cash-in-hand job to fill up his time).

That would be if he was in Britain instead of rural Nigeria, and if marrying multiple wives was legal here. Hmm...

I meant if they were only temporary marriages... in which case he prob would leave them eventually wouldnt he?

MuslimBro wrote:

You wrote:

I would expect any extra wives past the permitted limit would not be recognised...

This is correct.

So marriage with the later 82 is considered void.

But but but didnt the Prophet (P.B.U.H.) marry more then 4 or was that to show mankind the various types of women that a man could marry?

Noor wrote:

Ya'qub wrote:

Hmm...just saw this bit at the end:

Indeed, he claims the Prophet Muhammad speaks to him personally and gives detailed descriptions of his experiences.

It is a serious claim for a Muslim to make.

"This is heresy, he is a heretic," says Ustaz Abubakar Siddique, an imam of Abuja's Central Mosque.

Didn't the Prophet say that Shaitan could never take his form in a dream, so if you see the Prophet in a dream than it really is him?

Unless the guy is lying altogether about it. TBH he just sounds deluded to me, not intentionally doing wrong.

Imam Suyuti (rh) saw the Prophet over 70 times whilst awake and he would ask the Prophet questions regarding certain matters. And yes, if you see the Prophet in a dream, it is as if you have seen him in real life.

If you have never seen the Prophet (P.B.U.H.) how do you the man your dreaming of is actually the Prophet (P.B.U.H.)? Unless he says im the Prophet in the dream in which case that would explain it.

Malik, let's get this clear. What's the whole point of marriage? To be serious and try and make it forever, right?
And if you're only gonna make it temporary, then you might as well sleep around and have many short-term relationships. I think a decent girl would actually slap you if you told her that, no joke!
Oh, and Naz is a girl, so there's no point in calling her "Brother Naz"!

love to live but living to die wrote:

i'm pretty sur Naz isn't a girl... she's a YOUNG LADY ! theres a difference, keep it in mind!

You know what I mean.

Courage wrote:

Malik, let's get this clear. What's the whole point of marriage? To be serious and try and make it forever, right?
And if you're only gonna make it temporary, then you might as well sleep around and have many short-term relationships. I think a decent girl would actually slap you if you told her that, no joke!

Are you saying those girls to whom I contracted Muta Marriage for a few weeks were not decent?
Plus what about those women who agreed to Muta Marriage at the time of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?

If a person wants to settle down and have kids then permanant marriage is his route.
If a person is not yet ready to commit himself for permanant marriage, then Islam has gives a solution to satisfy his lust needs in a temporary and legal way. This is why Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) allowed Muta Marriage.

You see Islam has answers for everything. It is not like other faiths whom I dont want to diss which do not give us complete guidance. Islam is the only religion that offers full set of solution to everything. It is a comeplete and perfect religion from Allah to mankind.

Which other faith looks after the desires of young men when they reach puberty? They tell you with control yourself or jerk off alone in toilet. Brother, it is only Islam that lets to have peace of mind and find a girl who is willing to agree to a temporary marriage with you.

German MP Gabriele Pauli is all up for this Islamic idea to be tried in European nations.

She liked the Iranian concept: "You will only commit for a fixed period," said Gabriele Pauli

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriele_Pauli
http://aubergedumactheman.blogspot.com/2007/09/plan-to-allow-only-tempor...

SUNDAY TIMES:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/india_knight/article...

I think eventually, even the Kaafirs will be doing Muta Marriages first initiated by Prophet (pbuh). Muta Marriage is one of the miracles of Allah and His Prophet(pbuh). EU and US and UK and everyone else will in future come to this idea. They can take their time. Im doing it right now. Its Divine Blessing.

malik wrote:

Courage wrote:

Malik, let's get this clear. What's the whole point of marriage? To be serious and try and make it forever, right?
And if you're only gonna make it temporary, then you might as well sleep around and have many short-term relationships. I think a decent girl would actually slap you if you told her that, no joke!

Are you saying those girls to whom I contracted Muta Marriage for a few weeks were not decent?
Plus what about those women who agreed to Muta Marriage at the time of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?

If a person wants to settle down and have kids then permanant marriage is his route.
If a person is not yet ready to commit himself for permanant marriage, then Islam has gives a solution to satisfy his lust needs in a temporary and legal way. This is why Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) allowed Muta Marriage.

Narrated Saburah ibn Ma'bad al-Juhani: "The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) prohibited temporary marriage with women. (Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Book 11, Number 2068)"

malik wrote:

Are you saying those girls to whom I contracted Muta Marriage for a few weeks were not decent?
Plus what about those women who agreed to Muta Marriage at the time of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?

keep on dreaming. There is no way that a women would ever agree to a muta marriage or even a permanent marriage to you unless she had escaped from the mental health unit!

Malik wrote:

If a person is not yet ready to commit himself for permanant marriage, then Islam has gives a solution to satisfy his lust needs in a temporary and legal way.

Actually i think you will find that you are wrong there. Islam states that if one cannot marry (financial reasons) or in your case keep their pants on then they should fast in order to contain their lust. If your desparate then fast instead of making up stories :roll:

The reason why Islam tells us to commit, control ourselves and put the dialogue and trust first, is so that we can appreciate it. A Muta Marriage just destroys that. Most girls, if not all, will get hurt if you sleep with them and say bye-bye. What's the difference between you and an average British clubber?
Don't take this personally,mate, we're only challenging you cos we care.

hmmm

Hmmmmmm? Is that it?

Naz wrote:

malik wrote:

what about those women who agreed to Muta Marriage at the time of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?

There is no way that a women would ever agree to a muta marriage or even a permanent marriage to you unless she had escaped from the mental health unit!

Are you saying Prophet's (pbuh) companions were conducting Muta Marriages with lunatic women?

Brother I think you need to be a little more respectful to Islamic history.

malik wrote:

Naz wrote:

malik wrote:

what about those women who agreed to Muta Marriage at the time of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?

There is no way that a women would ever agree to a muta marriage or even a permanent marriage to you unless she had escaped from the mental health unit!

Are you saying Prophet's (pbuh) companions were conducting Muta Marriages with lunatic women?

Brother I think you need to be a little more respectful to Islamic history.

No, SHE was saying that if anyone wanted to marry YOU they would be a lunatic...

It wasn't very polite, but since you are calling her a guy, even when people have told you she's a sister, she was being perfectly respectful of Islamic history.

You have also completely ignored the hadith that Funzo has posted about 3 or 4 times. Are you just going to pretend it doesn't exist, to suit you own personal, selfish desires?

Funzo wrote:

Narrated Saburah ibn Ma'bad al-Juhani: "The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) prohibited temporary marriage with women.

(Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Book 11, Number 2068)"

Other Hadith books tell us a Prophet (pbuh) permitted temporary marriage to his companions:
Companions of the Prophet (pbuh) did the temporary Muta Marriage during his own time as well as during the time of Abu Bakr.
Why would they do temporary marriage if it had clearly been made Haraam by Prophet (pbuh).

I give examples from Sahih Muslim:

Jabir b. 'Abdullah and Salama b. al-Akwa' said: There came to us the proclaimer of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) has granted you permission to benefit yourselves, i. e. to contract temporary marriage with women. (Sahih Muslim Book 8, Hadith 3246)

Salama b. al. Akwa' and Jabir b. Abdullah reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) came to us and permitted us to contract temporary marriage. (Sahih Muslim Book 8, Hadith 3247)

Ibn Uraij reported: 'Ati' reported that jibir b. Abdullah came to perform 'Umra, and we came to his abode, and the people asked him about different things, and then they made a mention of temporary marriage, whereupon he said: Yes, we had been benefiting ourselves by this temporary marriage during the lifetime of theHoly Prophet (may peace be upon him) and during the time of Abi! Bakr and 'Umar. (Sahih Muslim Book 8, Hadith 3248)

Many muslims follow the examples of companions. We continute to do temporary marriage with girls even today. Some Sunni Muslims also do this in Egypt.
For the men this temporary marriage for a short period is one of the beautiful and advance facilities provided by Allah and allowed by Prophet (pbuh) to his companions.
What is the point of sinning and feeling guilty in your heart when you do Zina with women?
Why not do what Allah made Halaal?

@Yaqub he was dissing my kind (other women) hence the Impoliteness.

@Malik dont twist my words you know exactly what my post means.

Courage wrote:

Hmmmmmm? Is that it?

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

What im saying is that you shouldnt be soo sure of yourself. For all you know you could be wrong. What you believe today to be true, may not have been the case yesterday. So imagine what you might discover tomorrow.

Tread cautiously.

Seraphim wrote:

Courage wrote:

Hmmmmmm? Is that it?

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

What im saying is that you shouldnt be soo sure of yourself. For all you know you could be wrong. What you believe today to be true, may not have been the case yesterday. So imagine what you might discover tomorrow.

Tread cautiously.

.

Hey, if you want to disagree, feel free to do that! But please don't just sit there and hmmmmm.

love to live but living to die wrote:

Salama b. al. Akwa' and Jabir b. Abdullah

Would somebody shed some light upon these scholars, Are they from a shia' background?

I don't know let's see Malik's take on that!
Here's a question for Malik, what if you realise you got a girl, that you had Muta Marriage with, pregnant? What then?
Malik, why does Islam say no to sex outside of marriage? Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me that according to you marriage is only a technical thing. You don't have to be emotionally and spiritually ready. You don't even have to be serious if you don't want to. To me that destroys the whole purpose of marrying in the first place.

I dont know if they were Shia Muslims who narrated those Hhadith.

Im not a religious scholar so I dont know, but loads of Shias were used by Hadith collectors when they complied books like Sahih Muslim and Bukhari who were Iranian actually.

Courage wrote:

love to live but living to die wrote:

Salama b. al. Akwa' and Jabir b. Abdullah

Would somebody shed some light upon these scholars, Are they from a shia' background?

I don't know let's see Malik's take on that!

Here's a question for Malik, what if you realise you got a girl, that you had Muta Marriage with, pregnant? What then?
Malik, why does Islam say no to sex outside of marriage? Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me that according to you marriage is only a technical thing. You don't have to be emotionally and spiritually ready. You don't even have to be serious if you don't want to. To me that destroys the whole purpose of marrying in the first place.

I use condoms for fear of getting girls pregnant. I am not ready to take on the responsiblity of being a dad. Im still in education. At the moment I am only physically ready for sex since reaching puberty. That's for me why Muta Marriage is the right thing to do. Right now I am not emotinally ready to do Permanant Marriage because for that you have to really love your future wife spiritually. I would only marry permanently a girl who loves Imam Ali. Only that type of girl would be spiritually click with me.

Islam says sex before marriage is Zina. This is same as Bible which condemns sex outside marriage. I would never commit fornication or adultry with any sister. Prophet (pbuh) made that haraam.

Only Kaafirs do those sins.

Heres a newsflash for you Malik condoms are NOT 100% effective! no form of contraception is. If your sleeping around and using protection then you can still get a woman pregnant. You state that your not ready to take on the responsibility of fathering a kid well then stop sleeping around!!!

Its obvious you have commitment issues, maybe some girl really hurt you in the past hence why your saying you aint ready for marriage. Sleeping around will not make the pain go away you have to face it and deal with it.

Take a read of this article, it might clear the misconceptions that your having.

Quote:

Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, in his well known book, The Lawful and Prohibited in Islam. He writes:

"Marriage in Islam is a strong binding contract based on the intention of both partners to live together permanently in order to attain, as individuals, the benefit of repose, affection, and mercy mentioned in the Qur'an, as well as to attain the social goal of the reproduction and perpetuation of the human species. Almighty Allah says: "And Allah has made for our spouses of your own nature, and from your spouses has made for you sons and grandsons...." (An-Nahl: 72)

Now, mut`ah marriage (marriage for the sake of sexual gratification) is a marriage that is contracted by the two parties for a specified period of time in exchange for a specified sum of money. While the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) permitted mut`ah marriage during journeys and military campaigns before the Islamic legislative process was made complete, he later forbade it and made it Haram on a permanent basis.

It was initially permitted because the Muslims were passing through what might be called a period of transition from Jahiliyyah (the pre-Islamic period) to Islam. Fornication was widespread among the Arabs before the advent of Islam. After Islam, when Muslims were required to go on military expeditions, they were under great pressure as a result of being away from their wives for long periods of time.

Some of the believers were strong in faith, but others were weak. The weak in faith feared that they would be tempted to commit adultery, which is a major sin, while the staunch in faith, on the contrary, were ready to castrate themselves.

Ibn Mas`ud narrates: "We were on an expedition with the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) and did not have our wives with us, so we asked Allah's Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) 'Should we not castrate ourselves?' (The reason for this request was the desire to preserve their chastity, which was in danger of being affected by their unmet needs.) He forbade us from doing so but permitted us to contract marriage with a woman up to a specified date, giving her a garment as a dowry (Mahr)." (Reported by Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

Thus, mut`ah marriage provided a solution to the dilemma in which both the weak and the strong found themselves. It was also a step toward the final legalization of the complete marital life in which the objectives of permanence, chastity, reproduction, love, and mercy as well as the widening of the circle of relationships through marriage ties were to be realized.

We may recall that the Qur'an adopted a gradual course in prohibiting wine and usury, as these two evils were widespread and deeply rooted in the pre-Islamic society. In the same manner, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) adopted a gradual course in the matter of sex. First, he permitted mut`ah marriage as an alternative to zina (fornication and adultery), and at the same time coming closer to the permanent marriage relationship. He then prohibited it absolutely, as all and many other Companions reported.

Muslim reports this in his Sahih (Authentic Collection of Hadiths), mentioning that Al-Juhani was with the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) at the conquest of Makkah and that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) gave some Muslims permission to contract mut`ah marriages. Al-Juhani said: "Before leaving Makkah, the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) prohibited it." In another version: "Allah has made it Haram until the Day of Resurrection."

The question arises: Is mut`ah marriage absolutely haram, like marriage to one's own mother or daughter, or is it like the prohibition concerning the eating of pork or dead meat, which becomes permissible in case of dire necessity, the necessity in this case being the fear of committing zina?

The majority of the Companions hold the view that after the completion of the Islamic legislation, mut`ah marriage was made absolutely haram. However, Ibn `Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him) holds a different opinion, permitting it in case of dire necessity. A person asked him about marrying women on a haram basis, and he permitted him to do so.

A servant of his then asked, "Is this not under hard conditions, when women are few and the like?" and he replied, "Yes." (Reported by Al-Bukhari) Later, when Ibn `Abbas saw that people had become lax and were engaging in haram marriages without necessity, he withdrew his ruling and retracted his previous opinion. (Zad Al-Ma`ad, vol. 4, p. 7)

malik wrote:

I dont know if they were Shia Muslims who narrated those Hhadith.

Im not a religious scholar so I dont know, but loads of Shias were used by Hadith collectors when they complied books like Sahih Muslim and Bukhari who were Iranian actually.

Courage wrote:

love to live but living to die wrote:

Salama b. al. Akwa' and Jabir b. Abdullah

Would somebody shed some light upon these scholars, Are they from a shia' background?

I don't know let's see Malik's take on that!

Here's a question for Malik, what if you realise you got a girl, that you had Muta Marriage with, pregnant? What then?
Malik, why does Islam say no to sex outside of marriage? Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me that according to you marriage is only a technical thing. You don't have to be emotionally and spiritually ready. You don't even have to be serious if you don't want to. To me that destroys the whole purpose of marrying in the first place.

I use condoms for fear of getting girls pregnant. I am not ready to take on the responsiblity of being a dad. Im still in education. At the moment I am only physically ready for sex since reaching puberty. That's for me why Muta Marriage is the right thing to do. Right now I am not emotinally ready to do Permanant Marriage because for that you have to really love your future wife spiritually. I would only marry permanently a girl who loves Imam Ali. Only that type of girl would be spiritually click with me.

Islam says sex before marriage is Zina. This is same as Bible which condemns sex outside marriage. I would never commit fornication or adultry with any sister. Prophet (pbuh) made that haraam.

Only Kaafirs do those sins.

There's only ONE sort of contraception that's 100% effective. It's called celibacy,(unless Allah wants to make you like Maryam(as) which is unlikely).
So you think only kafirs commit zina? Look around you and you'll see that's really not the case, unfortunately.
Malik, are you worried about those girls getting hurt? Aren't you worried about getting into the psyche that sex is more important than it really is, by treating it like something you just do?
Hey, I don't want to put you down, I just want you to stop and think for a few minutes.

Oh, guys, get hold Sumaiya and ask her to make a new thread: "MUTA MARRIAGES........HARAAAAAAAAAAM!"

Maybe he just prefers acting like an animal.

Only a rabid dog cant control himself.

No, Seraph, don't do that.

Courage wrote:

No, Seraph, don't do that.

What i do?

[size=16]Nigerian faces death for 86 wives[/size]

[size=12]Nigeria's Islamic authority has told the man who has 86 wives to choose only four and repent within three days or else he will be sentenced to death.

The Jamatu Nasril Islam (JNI) passed their verdict on Mohammed Bello Abubakar, 84, according to Sharia law.[/size]

Link

Seraphim wrote:

Maybe he just prefers acting like an animal.

Only a rabid dog cant control himself.

You are wrong brother. Allah placed sexual desire in us.
Only Kaafirs behave like dogs. Muslims act within the beautiful laws of Sharia provided by Allah.

Companions of the Prophet(pbuh) also could not control themselves and that is why they came to Prophet (pbuh) and asked for permission to do Muta Marriage for a night.

They had great natural urges and therefore Prophet (pbuh) allowed them to take women in temporary marriage for the few days while they were away from their wives.

But they did have them. Its what Hadith tell us. Prophet (pbuh) allowed them to satisfy their natural urges for the night.
Muta Marriage is just the thing when a man or a woman wishes to do things in a legal and lawful way. Marrying a person temporarily for a few days or weeks is a wonderful allowance made by Allah. He knows what our desires are.

love to live but living to die wrote:

i don't get it... the companions of the Prophet would not even dare to look up just in case they might offend their and the other person's modesty and then all of a sudden they have 'natural urges' ??? huh? what sort of statememnt is that?

Its true some of the Prophets companions (may Allah (swt) be pleased with them) were weak. Sometimes while they were on a journey with the Prophet some of them were afraid of committing Zina so the Prophet did allow them to participate in such marriages. HOWEVER once Islam was fully revealed the Prophet forbade such marriages. The latter part is what Malik is finding hard to understand and implement.

Allah(swt) does and has acknowledged that some men are weak and they cannot control their “urges” therefore he has told them to fast but ppl like Malik think they are better/superior then the companions Prophets(P.B.U.H.) by not fasting and participating in zina instead!!!

Zina is forbidden. It was never allowed.
But Muta Marriage is different. It was allowed by Prophet.
Some people believe it was later forbidden. Some people say it was not.
From history we see some companions continued to do Muta Marriages even after the Prophet (pbuh).
If he had totally forbidden it, then why would some companions carry on doing it?
It doesn't make sense.

Shia Muslims as well as some Sunni Muslims follow conduct of those Companions after the Prophet (pbuh) who believed that Muta Marriage was still allowed.