There are some hadith (but very few) that state that muta marriages were practiced during the time of the Prophet i aint denying that. The ones that do say so also clearly state that muta marriages were only for the companions (May Allah(swt) be pleased with all of them) of the Prophet not for other men. According to the hadiths it seems only the Prophets companions pracitced such marriages when they were away travelling. Muta marriages were not practiced when the Prophets companions returned home to their wives. Ask yourself this Malik if muta marriages were allowed for all of mankind dont you think other muslims during the time of the Prophet would have particpated in them.

All we can tell is that Companions carried on practising Muta Marriage.
Whats good enough for them is good enough for us. Prophet (pbuh) told us to follow them.
So we can't make excuses just because we personally don't like a certain thing.

malik wrote:

All we can tell is that Companions carried on practising Muta Marriage.
Whats good enough for them is good enough for us. Prophet (pbuh) told us to follow them.
So we can't make excuses just because we personally don't like a certain thing.

There is a big difference to what the Prophets Companions reasons were for participating in muta marriages then to your reasons. Some of the Prophets companions while on a journey were missing their wives. They told the Prophet of their concerns which were that they were missing their wives and thus afraid of committing zina because of it. The Prophet therefore allowed the companions to do muta marriage to save them from sin. Your reason for doing muta marriage is because you afraid of commitment (a trait of a coward) . If anything your the one thats using muta marriage to justify your actions!!!

This is stupid. Even if i did believe in the concept of Temporary Marriages, which i dont, its would serve no purpose. I cant think of a single situation where a propper marriage would not also solve the problem. So why are we debating this?

The Prophet (pbuh) and his companions were extraordinary men that much is clear. But can we mortal men actually live up to them? Personally im not so arrogant to think i can even compare. However what i can do is try and do justice to them by being just to the people around me. And marrying a woman for a single night, does not seem just to me. Im sorry malik you can swing it whichever way you want, but the idea of a one night deal isn't right nor just... simply bcoz you lack discipline.

Learn to master yourself, before you try to instruct others.

Seraphim wrote:

Even if i did believe in the concept of Temporary Marriages, which i dont, its would serve no purpose.

it woud serve a purpose, for us women anyway. there would be no problems with travelling without a mahram! you could just marry someone whos takin the same journey as you.

Just to clear this out as i tried to point out subtly earlier in my post where i repeatedly posted the hadith where the prophet prohibited muta marriage, that shia muslims well from my understanding dont accept the majority of hadith because they think it was made up, so if you want to counter the argument use quranic evidence.

I came across this very interesing article today which gave me a good insight into why shias participate in muta marriages. After reading it i feel quite sorry for shia women. Take a read if you have time ppl.

Quote:

“Mutah” translates literally to “pleasure” in Arabic. In the Shia context, Mutah refers to a “temporary marriage.” A man pays a woman a sum of money (i.e. a so-called “dowry”) and he can have sexual relations with her for however long they agree for in the Mutah contract. The Mutah time period can be as little as one night, or even one hour–enough time for the man to do the sexual act. For all intents and purposes, Mutah is prostitution: a man pays a sum of money in order to have sexual relations with a woman.

Mutah is considered permissible in the Shia faith. It is completely rejected by the mainstream Muslims (i.e. the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah). The Shia Ayatollahs slander the Prophet by arguing that he encouraged Mutah, whereas the Ahlus Sunnah valiantly rejects such blasphemy and adamantly holds that the Prophet categorically forbade Mutah.

Shi’ism not only allows Mutah but actively encourages it. Naturally, many Shia apologetics have a hard time accounting for this; oftentimes, the Shia laity themselves (especially the women) are in denial as to their own beliefs. The fact is that Shi’ism not only allows Mutah, but it actively encourages it and even forbids anyone from saying that Mutah is wrong. According to Shi’ism, the more Mutah a man engages in, the more reward he supposedly gets. Any person who does not believe in Mutah is considered to be a Kaafir (disbeliever) by the Shia Ulema. There is no debate on this amongst the Shia Ulema, and there is Ijma (consensus) amongst them on the Kufr of denying Mutah.

Al-Kafi is one of the four Shia books of Hadith; of the four, it is considered the most authoratative and authentic. We read one such Sahih Hadith, in which the Imam says:
“One who engages in Mutah once in his lifetime reaches the status of Imam Al-Hussain. One who engages in it twice becomes equal in status to Imam Al-Hasan. The one who performs it three times reaches the position of Imam Ali. And he who practices it four times acquires the level and position of the Prophet Muhammad.”
This is pure blasphemy to say that all a man has to do to get to the level and position of the Prophet is to have Mutah with four women. To say that a man who engages in prostitution can in any way, shape, or form be compared to the Prophet is heresy.

Here are some more Shia Hadith from Al-Kafi (narrated in al-Kulaini, Furoo al-Kafi, Volume 2, p.196):
1. Abaan Ibn Tulugh related that he said to Imam Jafar as-Sadiq, “Often during my travels I come across a very beautiful woman and I am not sure if she has a husband or if she is an adultress or if she is one of dubious character.” The Imam responded, “Why should you worry about all of these things? Your duty is to believe

what she says, and if she says that she has no husband then you should engage in Mutah with her.” (Al-Kafi)

2. Zanaarah said, “I asked the Imam: ‘with how many girls can one do Mutah with?’ He replied, ‘with as many as you like; they are like hired girls.’” (Al-Kafi)

3. “If a man contracts Mutah once in his lifetime, Allah will grant him paradise.” (Al-Kafi)

4. “If a man does Mutah, he is saved from shirk.” (Al-Kafi)

Let us examine another Shia Hadith on the matter of Mutah:

Imam al-Sadiq (as) said: “The one who does not believe in our return [Al-Raj’ah] and does not consider our Mutah to be Halal is not from us.” (al-Bihar, al-Majlisi, v53, p92, Hadith #101)

And another interesting Shia Hadith:

Imam as-Sadiq (as) said: “He who believes in seven things is regarded as a believer: the disavowal of idols and tyrants, the declaration of the divine leadership of the Imams, the belief of Rajaa, legality of Mutah, the illegality of the flesh of eel, and the illegality of passing the wet hands over the slippers (during the ritual ablutions).” (Narrated by Ali bin Ahmed bin Abdullah who narrated to us from his father from his grandfather from Ahmed bin Abi Abdullah al-Barqi from his father from Amr bin Shemr from Abdullah)

These are very peculiar beliefs indeed. How is it that Mutah is considered commendable in Shi’ism? Mutah is nothing other than prostitution. To believe that Mutah is permissible is to negate all the Islamic exhortations in regards to chastity, sexual modesty, and righteousness. Furthermore, it is
complete blasphemy against our Prophet to say that he encouraged prostitution.
Mutah is Zinnah (fornication); it is immoral and reprehensible.

Malik the thing is, we as human beings can at least try and control our desires, animals can't. Let's use logic, mate. If you say to a girl, I'll give you a dowry, commit to you for one night/few days then what's the difference between you and someone who sleeps around. Do you seriously believe that marriage is just a technical thing?

Courage wrote:

If you say to a girl, I'll give you a dowry, commit to you for one night/few days then what's the difference between you and someone who sleeps around.

I can think of an even worse example. But yeah that was generally my point.

Alhamdulillah! Just in time for Ramadan:

Nigerian man to divorce 82 wives

A Nigerian religious leader with 86 wives has accepted an Islamic decree ordering him to divorce all but four of them, local authorities say.

A spokesman for the emir of Bida told the BBC that Mohammadu Bello Abubakar, 84, agreed on Saturday to comply with the decree.

Last week one of Nigeria's top Islamic bodies, the Jamatu Nasril Islam, sentenced him to death.

The sentence was lifted but he was threatened with eviction from his home.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7591037.stm

Naz gave the following quote:

Naz wrote:

Quote:

For all intents and purposes, Mutah is prostitution: a man pays a sum of money in order to have sexual relations with a woman.

These are very peculiar beliefs indeed. How is it that Mutah is considered commendable in Shi’ism? Mutah is nothing other than prostitution.

Furthermore, it is complete blasphemy against our Prophet to say that he encouraged prostitution.
Mutah is Zinnah (fornication); it is immoral and reprehensible.

If Muta Marriage is fornication and prostitution than you would
obviously be ashamed of Allah's Prophet(pbuh)

Whether he later forbade it or not is debatable,
we all accept Prophet(pbuh) did allow such a practice.

I think you need to re-think about your attitude towards this "prostitution".

Malik, define prostitution. Paying someone to have sex with you. Isn't that what you do with the Muta Marriage? Give them the dowry so that you can have a one night stand? I call that prostitution.

@Malik - even alcohol was originally allowed. Islam was revealed through a process.

PS can those equating Mut'ah to prostitution please remember that we all accept that it was allowed at some points (before it was forbidden) - It may be twisted to become prostitution, but that does not always make it the case.

The way it happens now is basically prostitution, come one you can't deny that.

malik wrote:

If Muta Marriage is fornication and prostitution than you would
obviously be ashamed of Allah's Prophet(pbuh)

Whether he later forbade it or not is debatable,
we all accept Prophet(pbuh) did allow such a practice.

I think you need to re-think about your attitude towards this "prostitution".

I aint disputing that. I know our Prophet allowed muta marriages back in the days for the following reason:

Quote:

Again, Muta is a legal marriage that was built solely on a sexual desire that existed between two couples to enable them to avoid fornication and prostitution in the society, and to allow the men who couldn't afford a traditional and cultural marriage - because it is too expensive for them - to still be able to wed women. Muta was also allowed to enable men who traveled on foot for 100s of miles to distant lands on foot to marry women at their new local towns to prevent them from raping and committing fornication and/or adultery and all other sexual evil such as homosexuality.
Muta also came to solve social problems that the early Muslims faced. It never came to gratify sexual pleasures, even though sexual pleasures are automatically gratified in marriages. Back in the Prophet's days, literal nakedness and sexual immorality were high among the pagans. This clearly proves that the pagans were too sexually open. So Muta also came to ease the sexual temptation and to allow a weaning period for the Muslims to get used to modesty. The Muslims were new to Islam, and they came from sexually open pagan societies.

However there is more evidence, which may i add is very strong, that show muta marriages are forbidden in Islam. You cant ignore that evidence.

malik wrote:

Naz gave the following quote:

Naz wrote:

Quote:

For all intents and purposes, Mutah is prostitution: a man pays a sum of money in order to have sexual relations with a woman.

These are very peculiar beliefs indeed. How is it that Mutah is considered commendable in Shi’ism? Mutah is nothing other than prostitution.

Furthermore, it is complete blasphemy against our Prophet to say that he encouraged prostitution.
Mutah is Zinnah (fornication); it is immoral and reprehensible.

If Muta Marriage is fornication and prostitution than you would
obviously be ashamed of Allah's Prophet(pbuh)

Whether he later forbade it or not is debatable,
we all accept Prophet(pbuh) did allow such a practice.

I think you need to re-think about your attitude towards this "prostitution".

OK, it's Ramadan, so let's say Malik, this Muta Marriage will never satisfy you as much as a proper one, trust me you'll appreciate your proper wife alot more without Muta Marriage.

Courage wrote:

OK, it's Ramadan, so let's say Malik, this Muta Marriage will never satisfy you as much as a proper one, trust me you'll appreciate your proper wife alot more without Muta Marriage.

How do you know? Are you married?

No, I don't think you need to be, they say marriage is alot more satisfying than sleeping around. Now do you want to convince Malik or not?

Courage wrote:

Now do you want to convince Malik or not?

Not really, no. Mutah marriages are part of Shia Islam, and Malik is a (very committed) Shia. People have tried convincing him that Sunni Islam is 'better' or 'more true' or whatever, and he isn't having any of it. I don't see why he would give up something because a bunch of non-scholars who've he's never met start quoting translations of hadiths at him.

He follows Shia scholars, and they say that it is halal. There's no more to it.

We;re not trying to convert him to Sunni Islam. We're just trying to make him think. And anyway you challenge him on blindly folowing the Ayatollah and even though that could be part of Shiaism.

What's wrong with debating?

Courage wrote:

What's wrong with debating?

Courage wrote:

OK, it's Ramadan, so let's say Malik, this Muta Marriage will never satisfy you as much as a proper one, trust me you'll appreciate your proper wife alot more without Muta Marriage.

I know Permanant Marriage is a lot better than the temporary Muta Marriage. Each has its benefits and drawbacks. Until boys are mature enough to settle down and have kids, Allah does allow them to take part in short term marriages to satisy their natural needs. Muslims are not homosexduals you know. We like females instead of males for sexual pleasure. Prophet (pbuh) knew of our needs thats why he allowed his companions to take temporary wives while they were away from their permanant wives. It makes sense to not sin and do what's Halaal.

Ya'qub wrote:

Not really, no. Mutah marriages are part of Shia Islam, and Malik is a (very committed) Shia. People have tried convincing him that Sunni Islam is 'better' or 'more true' or whatever, and he isn't having any of it.

No one has tried to tell me about Sunni schools of thought being better than Shia school of thought.

There is no Sunni Islam or Shia Islam. There is only one Islam and that is Islam of Allah.

We might have some differences but that is out of mercy of Allah. There is only one Islam, one Quran, one Kabaah, one Prophet (pbuh), one day of judgement, one heaven and one hell.

Everyone is agreed on these basic teachings of our Prophet (pbuh).

I say Ramadan Mubarak to all brothers and sisters.

malik wrote:

We might have some differences but that is out of mercy of Allah. There is only one Islam, one Quran, one Kabaah, one Prophet (pbuh), one day of judgement, one heaven and one hell.

Everyone is agreed on these basic teachings of our Prophet (pbuh).

I say Ramadan Mubarak to all brothers and sisters.

Alhamdulillah!

malik wrote:

Courage wrote:

OK, it's Ramadan, so let's say Malik, this Muta Marriage will never satisfy you as much as a proper one, trust me you'll appreciate your proper wife alot more without Muta Marriage.

I know Permanant Marriage is a lot better than the temporary Muta Marriage. Each has its benefits and drawbacks. Until boys are mature enough to settle down and have kids, Allah does allow them to take part in short term marriages to satisy their natural needs. Muslims are not homosexduals you know. We like females instead of males for sexual pleasure. Prophet (pbuh) knew of our needs thats why he allowed his companions to take temporary wives while they were away from their permanant wives. It makes sense to not sin and do what's Halaal.

Look, mate if you want to carry on doing this Muta Marriage thing, that's fine by me but A: you could be hurting people, B: You're basically putting sexual desires before dialogue and commitment, which won't be healthy when you do marry for real and C: the Prophet only allowed Muta marriages for a short period which is gone and he wanted us to learn some self control and commit, you can't deny that.

At the end of the day, you'll be the one who messes, so if you're that desperate to fall in the ditch then carry on.

Courage wrote:

malik wrote:

Courage wrote:

OK, it's Ramadan, so let's say Malik, this Muta Marriage will never satisfy you as much as a proper one, trust me you'll appreciate your proper wife alot more without Muta Marriage.

I know Permanant Marriage is a lot better than the temporary Muta Marriage. Each has its benefits and drawbacks. Until boys are mature enough to settle down and have kids, Allah does allow them to take part in short term marriages to satisy their natural needs. Muslims are not homosexduals you know. We like females instead of males for sexual pleasure. Prophet (pbuh) knew of our needs thats why he allowed his companions to take temporary wives while they were away from their permanant wives. It makes sense to not sin and do what's Halaal.

Look, mate if you want to carry on doing this Muta Marriage thing, that's fine by me but A: you could be hurting people, B: You're basically putting sexual desires before dialogue and commitment, which won't be healthy when you do marry for real and C: the Prophet only allowed Muta marriages for a short period which is gone and he wanted us to learn some self control and commit, you can't deny that.

At the end of the day, you'll be the one who messes, so if you're that desperate to fall in the ditch then carry on.

Who is he suppose to be hurting? Dont say the girls he is sleeping with coz they have consented to it. Also by the sounds of it Malik finds it very beneficial.

@Malik something for you to bare in mind. If and when you decide to settle down what makes you think a girl would marry someone who has been around?

Yeah I know those girls have consented to it but isn't there a 90% chance that they'll get emotionally attached while he can just walk free?

Courage wrote:

Yeah I know those girls have consented to it but isn't there a 90% chance that they'll get emotionally attached while he can just walk free?

How come your such an expert on women even though you're not married?

no stereotyping please.