Really? Well, I've been told by scholars there is. Whether adultery and fornication are just zina, or there's a distinction.

MuslimBro wrote:

Please be careful on what you say about Islamic rulings. The punishment for adultery is death by stoning, considering they meet certain conditions. Someone who doesn't meet the conditions or commits fornication (while not being married), the punishment for them is 100 lashes.

where does it say stoning to death is the punishment?
It's actually not

Courage wrote:

Really? Well, I've been told by scholars there is. Whether adultery and fornication are just zina, or there's a distinction.

Can you please name the scholars?... coz I'm 100% sure what I said above about the punishment is correct and I've checked it out aswell.

1R4M wrote:

MuslimBro wrote:

Please be careful on what you say about Islamic rulings. The punishment for adultery is death by stoning, considering they meet certain conditions. Someone who doesn't meet the conditions or commits fornication (while not being married), the punishment for them is 100 lashes.

where does it say stoning to death is the punishment?
It's actually not

What is it then?

1R4M wrote:

MuslimBro wrote:

Please be careful on what you say about Islamic rulings. The punishment for adultery is death by stoning, considering they meet certain conditions. Someone who doesn't meet the conditions or commits fornication (while not being married), the punishment for them is 100 lashes.

where does it say stoning to death is the punishment?
It's actually not

No where in the Quran does it say stoning, but a Hadith says stoning for adultery if they're caught red handed by 4 reliable witnesses and they still think that they're in the right, which is VERY difficult. Whether this Hadith is 100% reliable or whether it's been overruled by the Quran or another Hadith, that's a different issue.

MuslimBro wrote:

Courage wrote:

Really? Well, I've been told by scholars there is. Whether adultery and fornication are just zina, or there's a distinction.

Can you please name the scholars?... coz I'm 100% sure what I said above about the punishment is correct and I've checked it out aswell.

1R4M wrote:

MuslimBro wrote:

Please be careful on what you say about Islamic rulings. The punishment for adultery is death by stoning, considering they meet certain conditions. Someone who doesn't meet the conditions or commits fornication (while not being married), the punishment for them is 100 lashes.

where does it say stoning to death is the punishment?
It's actually not

What is it then?

There's the blond guy on Noor TV, who pretends to be Murad Hakim. No he's not a comedian! I'm just being sarcastic, the programme info just has Murad Hakim's name on. This guy was talking about the different opinions with in Islam. And he mentioned this.

I was talking only about the punishment, when someone is found guilty. And here you are going into other areas.

Whether you agree or disagree with me doesn't matter.

Please contact a reliable scholar who will explain it better than me InshaAllah. No point talking about this any further.

I wasn't arguing that stoning doesn't. I just wanted you to know that there are two opinions.

I stick to what I have said.

if you're saying you're not judging, then don't judge....leave it. I am tired of ppl thinking that the only sins are alcohol, sex and pork. There is more to it, and you ar eocmmiting those sins as we speak

Backbitibng and bitching are also sins, but talking about the issue isn't.

The Lamp wrote:

Backbitibng and bitching are also sins, but talking about the issue isn't.

Lol ...the list can go on and on , on what is sin and what is Halal.

Shouldnt we have a different thread for this ..considering this thread is specific about Muslim women being pregnant out of marriage...

I agree stick to the topic.

Also why do people seem to forget that none of us has the right to Judge but Allah Himself. That is one thing people seem to forget about Islam. It is not our place to judge, to tell people what is right or wrong or tell them they might be stoned to death, lashed or whatever. We all have to answer for everything we have done in this life. Everyone on this forum things if they follow the rules they will enter paradise. I dont think it is quite that simple.
Dont forget the story of the prostitute who was forgiven of her sins by Allah for her kindness to a dog. I forget the exact reference now, I've heard a couple of Imams tell it.

Actually, you're wrong - there is scope to tell between right and wrong.

There is even scope to carry out punishments. If that was not the case, there would be no Islamic legal system.

If there was no punishment, there would not be any proscribed in the Qur'an. Yet there are and such things should not be simply ignored. There are other precedents from hadith, from the life of the sahabah etc.

Even judging - life is full of making judgements, and in an Islamic system, there would be a judge to make legal judgements.

What we do not have right to is to backbite, to be hostile to others, to impose our wills on other people and to use mob rule.

Is the general gist that it's better to keep it than kill it?

yes. Think so.

You wrote:

Actually, you're wrong - there is scope to tell between right and wrong.

There is even scope to carry out punishments. If that was not the case, there would be no Islamic legal system.

If there was no punishment, there would not be any proscribed in the Qur'an. Yet there are and such things should not be simply ignored. There are other precedents from hadith, from the life of the sahabah etc.

Even judging - life is full of making judgements, and in an Islamic system, there would be a judge to make legal judgements.

What we do not have right to is to backbite, to be hostile to others, to impose our wills on other people and to use mob rule.

I understand your comments. Perhaps mine was unclear, I wasnt saying that there is no right and wrong, but about whose place it is to judge that. I was saying this based on some of the other comments on here. You mention that in an Islamic system there would be a judge to make those legal judgements - so be it, but we are not the judges!

MakeMeRawr_6TeenF wrote:

Is the general gist that it's better to keep it than kill it?

From my understandings it depends on the circumstances. There are women who find themselves in unfortunate circumstances through unpleasant experiences that happen to them through no fault of there own (victims of rape etc). Also I have read that abortion may be permisable if the mother's own life is seriously in danger if she keeps the baby.

But yes the gist of it is that it is better to have the baby. Unfortunately, in reality life is not always that simple. Through my career I have come across a number of Muslim women for a variety of reasons who have had abortions. Their lives have been made considerably worse by the views and actions of their families and the community. I've seen some tragic heart breaking cases. no matter what mistakes a person might make, we as a community should try to support them and not leave them abandonned.

Wasn't Maryam an unmarried Pregnant Muslim Woman?

Doesn't she go to show that things aren't always as simple as they seem?

Perhaps we shouldn't judge the Vicky Pollards of the Muslim world so harshly.

Courage wrote:

I think Malik's done a runner. If he wants to actually discuss Shiaism, why doesn't he start a new thread? Fair enough he's got a passion for Shiaism so surely he should start a new discussion rather than do it occassionally here and there and run off?

Shias dont do runners.
Leaders of Shias like Imam Ali never ran away like leaders of other people.

MakeMeRawr_6TeenF wrote:

Wasn't Maryam an unmarried Pregnant Muslim Woman?

Doesn't she go to show that things aren't always as simple as they seem?

But is her case not different? Can we really relate to that?

Maryam as in Mary(RA)?

s.b.f wrote:

But is her case not different? Can we really relate to that?

I think her case is different and we can't relate to it

I've always thought of her being a Muslim...

s.b.f wrote:

MakeMeRawr_6TeenF wrote:

Wasn't Maryam an unmarried Pregnant Muslim Woman?

Doesn't she go to show that things aren't always as simple as they seem?

But is her case not different? Can we really relate to that?

Well the way i saw it was that her case was different and SO we could relate to it.

Because it shows anything is possible if it's the will of Allah and the complete Uniqueness of every individual, every action and every event.

Just my opinion.

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:

s.b.f wrote:

But is her case not different? Can we really relate to that?

I think her case is different and we can't relate to it

I've always thought of her being a Muslim...

Wasnt she Jewish? Of course Islam came after Christianity but as we believe Islam is the one true religion (which is why we say reverts and not converts)

I dont think the case of Maryam is relevant. She was an unmarried pregnant woman yes, but as the story goes she was a virgin.

MakeMeRawr_6TeenF wrote:

Because it shows anything is possible if it's the will of Allah and the complete Uniqueness of every individual, every action and every event.

Just my opinion.

Fair Enough...

Beattie wrote:

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:

s.b.f wrote:

But is her case not different? Can we really relate to that?

I think her case is different and we can't relate to it

I've always thought of her being a Muslim...

Wasnt she Jewish? Of course Islam came after Christianity but as we believe Islam is the one true religion (which is why we say reverts and not converts)

I dont think the case of Maryam is relevant. She was an unmarried pregnant woman yes, but as the story goes she was a virgin.

Oh. I'd always thought that Muslims said Reverts because the Prophet (saww) said that every child is born in a natural state of fitrah. Oops.

And you read my comment too shallowly. I wasn't suggesting that she is like these people or that they're like her, just that her "story" should maybe teach us not to judge so quickly and with such closed a mind.

s.b.f wrote:

Fair Enough...

But?

But...I still can't see how we can relate to her in that respect.

s.b.f wrote:

But...I still can't see how we can relate to her in that respect.

Ok nevermind :]

MakeMeRawr_6TeenF wrote:

s.b.f wrote:

But...I still can't see how we can relate to her in that respect.

Ok nevermind :]

Not going to explain?

s.b.f wrote:

MakeMeRawr_6TeenF wrote:

s.b.f wrote:

But...I still can't see how we can relate to her in that respect.

Ok nevermind :]

Not going to explain?

I've tried and failed to explain what i mean coherently
There's no other way i can say it.