malik wrote:

We are talking about the fact that Abu Bakr denied inheritance to the daughter of the Prophet (pbuh). She was very angry and died not speaking to him ever again. This means Abu Bakr remains unforgiven. Prophet (pbuh) will decide the issue on the day of judgement.

So if the prophet will decide, who are you or what right do you have to say he remains unforgiven?

Abu Bakr didn't do nothing wrong to me. But he did wrong to the daughter of Prophet (pbuh).
She did not forgive him. Thats why I said he remains unforgiven.
She will complain on the day of judgement. Prophet will sort him out.

malik wrote:

He didn.t do nothing wrong to me. But he did wrong to the daughter of Prophet (pbuh).
She did not forgive him. Thats why I said he remains unforgiven.
She will complain on the day of judgement. Prophet will sort him out.

prove it.

Have you not yet read the two hadith I quoted from Bukhari?
Just go up and read the post of 22 December 2009.

Sahih Bukhari has 2 reports from Aisha that her father Abu Bakr angered Fatima.
Basically, Abu Bakr he called Fatima a liar when he rejected her claim that Fadak was her property. She said Prophet left it for her. He said no, you got it wrong. Prophets do not leave anything to their chidlren.
This disrespectful reply made the daughter of the Porphet very angry and she refused to ever speak to Abu Bakr again.
Later on, Abu Bakr may have realised his grave mistake and possibly regreted his sin.
Hadith says that he tried to make it up with her. But she did not forgive him. She did not talk to him until her death.
According to these hadith, Fatima died upset with Abu Bakr.
On her instructions, her husband Ali buried her at night. Daughter of the Prophet (pbuh) was buried at night and public knew nothing about it. Not even the Caliph.
Ali did not inform Abu Bakr of Fatima's death.
These hadith from Bukhari, if true, are shocking to any muslim. They reveal that Abu Bakr did not taking part in Janaza prayers of the holy daughter of the Prophet (pbuh). Now you now why. Read the 2 hadith yourself and think.

malik wrote:

We are talking about the fact that Abu Bakr denied inheritance to the daughter of the Prophet (pbuh). She was very angry and died not speaking to him ever again. This means Abu Bakr remains unforgiven. Prophet (pbuh) will decide the issue on the day of judgement.

well if you have read the complete Hadith, Harzat Abu Bakar (RA) did not refused her for his personal intention here is the hadith

Book 80 718
Narrated 'Aisha: Fatima and Al 'Abbas came to Abu Bakr, seeking their share from the property of Allah's Apostle and at that time, they were asking for their land at Fadak and their share from Khaibar. Abu Bakr said to them, " I have heard from Allah's Apostle saying, 'Our property cannot be inherited, and whatever we leave is to be spent in charity, but the family of Muhammad may take their provisions from this property." Abu Bakr added, "By Allah, I will not leave the procedure I saw Allah's Apostle following during his lifetime concerning this property." Therefore Fatima left Abu Bakr and did not speak to him till she died.

furthermore here are the hadiths for inheritence

Book 80 719
Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet said, "Our (Apostles') property should not be inherited, and whatever we leave, is to be spent in charity."

Book 80 721
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "Not even a single Dinar of my property should be distributed (after my deaths to my inheritors, but whatever I leave excluding the provision for my wives and my servants, should be spent in charity."

and this was not the only case.....here is another hadith

Book 80 722
Narrated 'Urwa: 'Aisha said, "When Allah's Apostle died, his wives intended to send 'Uthman to Abu Bakr asking him for their share of the inheritance." Then 'Aisha said to them, "Didn't Allah's Apostle say, 'Our (Apostles') property is not to be inherited, and whatever we leave is to be spent in charity?'"

I think you missed the point.
Intention of Abu Bakr is not for me to decide. I cannot read his mind. Neither can you. Maybe he genuinely believed what he had said to Fatima. Maybe he did not.
What is at issue is that Abu Bakr upset Fatima, the holy daughter of the Prophet (pbuh).
Second issue is that Fatima did not forgive him.

Prophet (pbuh) had warned everyone:

[b]"Fatima is part of me. Her happiness my happiness. Her anger is my anger. My anger is God's anger."[/b]

When Prophet died, Fatima went to Abu Bakr and said my my father left me Fadak. Why have you confiscated it. Give it back. It is my property.
Abu Bakr said you are wrong Fatima. Your father did not leave you Fadak.

Prophet's daughter became angry with the first Caliph. She died upset with Abu Bakr. She used to curse him after every prayer.

Now the matter will be decided in the next life on the Day of Judgement. Somebody is going to get it bad style.

Allah be Merciful.

malik wrote:

I think you missed the point.
Intention of Abu Bakr is not for me to decide. I cannot read his mind. Neither can you. Maybe he genuinely believed what he had said to Fatima. Maybe he did not.
What is at issue is that Abu Bakr upset Fatima, the holy daughter of the Prophet (pbuh).
Second issue is that Fatima did not forgive him.

Prophet (pbuh) had warned everyone:

[b]"Fatima is part of me. Her happiness my happiness. Her anger is my anger. My anger is God's anger."[/b]

When Prophet died, Fatima went to Abu Bakr and said my my father left me Fadak. Why have you confiscated it. Give it back. It is my property.

Abu Bakr said you are wrong Fatima. Your father did not leave you Fadak.

Prophet's daughter became angry with the first Caliph. She died upset with Abu Bakr. She used to curse him after every prayer.

Now the matter will be decided in the next life on the Day of Judgement. Somebody is going to get it bad style.

Allah be Merciful.

Bhai sahib... I have qouted the whole hadith.....and what you are qouting are merely your fabrications.....You are only arguing for the sake of argument......look the essence of wisdom is arguing with logic....which, unfortunatly....you are missing. You are only concentrating on one part, not evaluating the logic of decesion......Give me a simple answer...How would you deny Hazrat Abu Bakar (RA)'s Argument....do you deny the hadiths of Prophet's inheritence? if yes, then on what grounds? then we will move forward.

malik wrote:

Allah be Merciful.

Ameen!

Hello Brother,,,,,,,,,i think you only know few hadit of Mohammad PBUH. Please check other hadit in which Prophet PBUH said great words for Hazrat Ali (R.A.), Hazrat Umar (R.A.), Hazrat Abu Bakar (R.A.) and Hazrat Usman (R.A.). One thing i know that Prophet can never choose wrong friends. If we deny prophet's word about these honorable personalities it means we deny our Prophet (PBUH). Please think that Hadit quoted by all Imam were most authentic than the things happened after Prophet PBUH.

Do you know that how many wife's of Hazrat Ali(R.A.)?? What were the names of their children. You will see that Hazrat ALI (R.A.) named them with the names of other HONORABLE SAHABA. Why you deny this? You should understand that Hazrat Ali (R.A.) was having great knowledge so please don't refuse their choice. They know better than we and if they always stood with other SAHABA either for the sake of Islam then we should Honor Hazrat Ali (R.A.) great efforts.

What our Prophet PBUH said about the SAHABA including Hazrat Ali R.A. . Can you say that Prophet PBUH said wrong? if not then you should respect those words becuase Prophet always innocent and can never be false in saying and choice of people working for Islam. They did great job but we are just spoiling our time in making shia and sunni thought. No person either a great muallam of islam ever asked you to study QURAN and search what it says then conclude results. We always believe in hearsay things and never follow QURAN. Just read it and get results from the book of ALLAH. Can you deny this book too??? Please just try to follow good things and think with positive mind. We should keep PEACE as our Prophet said. There are not only SAHABA involved in these conspiracy but the people made huge gap among them and even one time HAZRAT ALI R.A. said that i will lash those who say that i am better than ABU BAKAR. Also Ali R.A. named his children with the name of SAHABA.

ALLAH HELP ALL OF US TO KEEP UNITY. WE ARE ALREADY FACING HUGE PROBLEM IN THIS WORLD NEVER SAYING THAT JEWISH, HINDUS AND OTHERS ARE KILLING US, MAKING JOKES OF OUR PROPHET PBUH AND OUR DEEN..........PLEASE KEEP UNITY.........WE ALWAYS THINK NEGATIVE AND IT'S NOT OUR AUTHORITY TO SAY THAT SOMEONE IS BAD AND SOMEONE IS GOOD. ALLAH KNOWS EVERYTHING BUT WE SHOULD LEARN MORE BY READING QURAN AND NOT FOLLOWING SAYINGS OF OTHER PEOPLE.

Please read again carefully these two hadith written in Sahih Bukhari:

Volume 5, Book 59, Hadith Number 546.
Volume 4, Book 53, Hadith Number 325.

It is obvious that daughter of the Prophet (pbuh) was not convinced by the words of Abu Bakr. She believed he was lying inorder to take over her gardan of Fadak.
Fatima told him that her father the Prophet left Fadak for her. The hadith says that she went to claim this inheritance. She said Fadak belonged to her. No one had the right to grab it. She wanted it back.
But Abu Bakr did not gave her Fadak. He said he is keeping Fadak as state property because Prophet's leave nothing to anyone. What ever they leave is charity. Fatima did not agree with him. She became angry.

Both parties contradicted each other. Abu Bakr denied her the garden of Fadak. He kept it in government. Prophet's daughter became angry with Abu Bakr. She did not speak to him even to death. Fatima died angry with Abu Bakr. This is fact.

Shia muslims say that Abu Bakr's words which say that Prophets do not leave inheritance, are not true. Shia shocalrs do not believe in his words. They say hadith is false. It is a lie.

Prophet's do leave inheritance. Ali believed so. Fatima believed so. Abu Bakr got it wrong. He did this for political reasons. It is very clear that this fabricated hadith was invented inorder to deny inheritance to Prophet's holy daughter Fatima.

Shia muslims say that if the hadith by Abu Bakr was true, then Fatima would have accepted it. But we see that daughter of the Prophet rejected it. She cursed him and all the the liars who slander the Prophet (pbuh).

The simple fact is that Prophet's daughter was angery with the Caliph. She wanted her rightful property. He oppressed her. She died upset.

Allah will Judge between Abu Bakr and Fatima on the Day of Judgement.

Allah have Mercy.

I side with Fatima. I will always stand by her and by Imam Ali. I believe them and I reject their opponents.

I am Shia Muslim.

malik wrote:

Please read again carefully these two hadith written in Sahih Bukhari:

Volume 5, Book 59, Hadith Number 546.
Volume 4, Book 53, Hadith Number 325.

It is obvious that daughter of the Prophet (pbuh) was not convinced by the words of Abu Bakr. She believed he was lying inorder to take over her gardan of Fadak.
Fatima told him that her father the Prophet left Fadak for her. The hadith says that she went to claim this inheritance. She said Fadak belonged to her. No one had the right to grab it. She wanted it back.
But Abu Bakr did not gave her Fadak. He said he is keeping Fadak as state property because Prophet's leave nothing to anyone. What ever they leave is charity. Fatima did not agree with him. She became angry.

Both parties contradicted each other. Abu Bakr denied her the garden of Fadak. He kept it in government. Prophet's daughter became angry with Abu Bakr. She did not speak to him even to death. Fatima died angry with Abu Bakr. This is fact.

Shia muslims say that Abu Bakr's words which say that Prophets do not leave inheritance, are not true. Shia shocalrs do not believe in his words. They say hadith is false. It is a lie.

Prophet's do leave inheritance. Ali believed so. Fatima believed so. Abu Bakr got it wrong. He did this for political reasons. It is very clear that this fabricated hadith was invented inorder to deny inheritance to Prophet's holy daughter Fatima.

Shia muslims say that if the hadith by Abu Bakr was true, then Fatima would have accepted it. But we see that daughter of the Prophet rejected it. She cursed him and all the the liars who slander the Prophet (pbuh).

The simple fact is that Prophet's daughter was angery with the Caliph. She wanted her rightful property. He oppressed her. She died upset.

Allah will Judge between Abu Bakr and Fatima on the Day of Judgement.

Allah have Mercy.

I side with Fatima. I will always stand by her and by Imam Ali. I believe them and I reject their opponents.

I am Shia Muslim.

now you r talking......ok once againe here goes

I hope you would know Khutba-Hajja tul Wida.....(refresh if you dont)

“Do treat your women well and be kind to them, for they are your partners and committed helpers.”"I am leaving you with the Book of God and Sunnah (=example) of his prophet. If you follow them, you will never go astray.”“Verily, this religion (Islam) is simple and easy to follow, whoever makes it hard will only be overwhelmed by it..”

now compare this with the answer of Hazrat Abu Bakar (RA)

By Allah, I will not make any change in the state of the Sadaqa of Allah's Apostle and will leave it as it was during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle, and will dispose of it as Allah's Apostle used to do."

I am not saying that Naudbillah Bibi Fatima (RA) was wrong NauzBillah. Just trying to present the possible reason.
Regarding the comment that

Abu Bakr got it wrong. He did this for political reasons

can you please provide us with any incident that Hazrat Abu Bakar (RA) kept it for his personal use or political use.Please think at least twice (in you case more than that..) before saying anything which you can not back by references.

Both parties contradicted each other. Abu Bakr denied her the garden of Fadak. He kept it in government. Prophet's daughter became angry with Abu Bakr. She did not speak to him even to death. Fatima died angry with Abu Bakr. This is fact.

now please revisit the words,"did not speak.....".And is She (RA) would have died with anger then Why would Hazrat Ali al muzrtaza (Karam allah Wajhul Karim) would have taken allegence to Hazrat Abu Bakar (RA)?

Shia muslims say that if the hadith by Abu Bakr was true, then Fatima would have accepted it. But we see that daughter of the Prophet rejected it. She cursed him and all the the liars who slander the Prophet (pbuh).

Plz dont humiliate such a nobel family. I hope you would have known what you say. Did you see Allah's Apostle (SAAWW) cursing someone? He is Rehmat for whole worlds, do you remember the Tai'f? You know what Allah's Apostle (SAAWW)did? do you know. Tell me who's noble blood was in the Vains of Pak BiBi Fatima (RA)? She (RA) cursed Hazrat Abu Bakar for a Garden? Plz enough with this....! Tell me about the Ahl-e-Bait's situation in the Life of Allah's Apostle.....Were they lived like Kings? have you forgotten the incident of Hazrat Maula Ali Al-Murtaza (RA) and Pak Bibi Fatima (RA) fasting with water for Ten Days?...have you?....If you say that the Leader of Women in Jannah could think like this......and that too for a worldy garden?.....May Allah have mercy on you brother.....and open you mind for the respect of Ahl-e-bait.

Prophet's do leave inheritance. Ali believed so. Fatima believed so. Abu Bakr got it wrong. He did this for political reasons. It is very clear that this fabricated hadith was invented inorder to deny inheritance to Prophet's holy daughter Fatima.

oh C'mon let me tell what is fabrication.......fabrication is the thing that you did in your statement.....Without knowledge. And on what grounds do you think that hadith is fabricated?....you can throw an argument but you can't prove it.So better do a A lot of thinking (I am advising this 2nd time to you...but you dont care to listen). I may guess the lame reason.....is it because BiBi Aisha (RA)was the narrator? yes that would be your most likely answer....Look mate. Hadith is a religious responsibility and what can I say on this.....Quran has narrated a sign of Jews that they accept part of the book but deny the other and also they hide the parts of the book including the mention of Allah's Apostle (SAAWW). Now I was surfing around Shia websites (which I often do...to understand more and more about their faith and believes-which inturn strenghthen my beliefes more Alhamdulillah)I cam accros a website known as www.imamreza.net and the event of hijrat was discussed here the author qouted the whole ayats
1)Allah's Apostle Leaving for Madina

And We have set before them a barrier and behind them a barrier and We covered them over so that they do not see.
Surae Ya Sin, 36 : 9

and for the bravery of Hazrat Maula Ali Al Murtaza (RA)

And among men there is one who sells his soul to seek the pleasure of Allah; and truly Allah is affectionate to His (such) servants. Surae Baqarah, 2 : 207

but an ayat was quoted partially (which I was interstingly looking at how Shia's report this)

...Do not be afraid, Allah is with us...
Surae Tawba, 9 : 40(Part)

Do you know who Hazrat Abu Bakar(RA) Was? Lets complete this the Quran

If you fail to support him (the messenger), GOD has already supported him. Thus, when the disbelievers chased him,and he was one of two in the cave, he said to his friend, "Do not worry; GOD is with us." GOD then sent down contentment and security upon him, and supported him with invisible soldiers. He made the word of the disbelievers lowly. GOD's word reigns supreme. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.Chapter 9:40

Will you deny Quran Now? will you say it too is fabricated? Hazrat Abu Bakar (RA) was the other of "one of two" (Why did Quran reported them inrelation to one another)and a "friend" of Allah's Apostle? If God has delcared him as a friend of Allah's Apostle (SAAWW) how would you deny this? open your eyes please and argu sensibaly
and BTW here's the link
http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=3367
I hope for a sensible argument going forward
Allah hafiz

I dont deny Quran ever in my life. May God kill me the day I reject His Word.
But I do deny some hadith because hadith reports can be fabricated. They were reported by men and written by men. That means they can have errors in them.

But Quran can never be fabricated by anyone. No one can add or delete anything from it. Quran is totally pure and protected word of God.

But we are not talking about the Quran. We are discussing Fadak. We are talking about false hadith in Bukhari which angered Fatima.

If that hadith was true, she would have accepted it. If it was not good enough for Fatima, it is not good enough for Shia Muslims. We love her and side with her. She is more holy than Abu Bakr. She knew what her father has said and done. The Caliph rejected her claim. We reject his claim.

We leave it for God to judge this matter of Fadak on the day of judgement.

Shia muslims can easily guess in whose favour the verdict will go. I think any reasonable person can too. Just dont be scared to say so.

Allah is the Best Judge.

The enemy of Ahel-Bait can never be Muslim. Read "Darud Ibrahimi" and try to understand the authority & position of Ahle-bait. "Keh du mein tom se ajre-risaalat nahi mangta, pas meray ahel-bait ke ataat karo. Shame on you Mulas

In fact, Muslims begins to victimize Ahel-e-Bait right after the death of Holy Prophet. It is bitter fact, Ahel-Bait was not happy with the above said personality. There are many 'Muslims' who even justify Yazeed vs Hazrat Imam, Moavia, Abu Sofian.

Imam Ali is chief of pious men, total Faith (Iman-e-Kul), the greatest warrior of the Universe and Islam, born in Kabah, The Gateway of Knowledge, belong to the family of Holy Prophet, His father brought up the Holy Prohet, belongs to the family of prophets

Imam Hussain, the live Quran, Cheif of martayars, Pince of Paradise (Authority over paradise.

Imam Hussan, the prince of paradise
Hazrat Fatima, Chief of pious women, the most pious woman of the universe

The Mulas of that time like you are responsible for the merciless killing of Ahel-e-bait.
Mula means enemy of Ahel-bait, in fact

So you deny all the friends of the Prophet - all the people he kept close to himself during his lifetime?

Do you really think the Prophet would surround himself with such people? He was sent for his message to last for a long long time.

Besides, we are told to stick with the majority, and the shia are probably less than 10% of the Muslim body, hence not the majority.

and can you please shut up and let this topic die?

It is the same one or two people who love to post in urdu who randomly come on and find this from somewhere. (it may even be one schizophrenic person!)

Any further posts utilising urdu will be deleted EVEN IF THEY HAVE MERIT. Leave urdu for urdustan. It is rude and obnoxious to use it when others cannot under stand your loony ravings.

IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, MOST BENEFICENT, MOST MERCIFUL.
ASSALM O ELIKUM (WRWB)
Either we are Sunni's or Shia's but Muslims.
I request all of you here, that, do not comment on what we deserve not.
Whatever the conflicts were, between the relatives of Prophet Muhammad or companions, let Allah Subhana O Ta'la decide as HE is all Knowing. We will see the truth on the day of judgement (The Qayamat)which is bound to prevail and to which we are bound to see. I am a Sunni Muslim by descent but i call myself as a Muslim only, these sects have given us nothing and neither will give. Both Hazrat Ali (Moula Ali) & Hazrat Aisha (Umm ul Momeneen) are respectable to me and should be respectable to all. Allah is all Knowing. This debate always seems like, for the sake of debate only, as it has no end and by commenting on such things we transgress to our limits which in any case is a big sin which deserves punishment. No matter how much knowledgeable we are and how many books we have cramed, the end of the day reality is, we have got all information through books written my men not at all by Quran, so there are chances of error which is a fact and is a human instinct. So, as per my findings, we should concentrate on making Islam as a role model for others by developing inter-religious harmony, which is missing in our case, unfortunately. We are struggling because, we had been utilized by International Anti-Pakistan and Anti-Islam elements and without getting any lesson, we are still heading towards the same wrong track.
THINK LIKE A MUSLIM. THINK LIKE A MUSLIM. THINK LIKE A MUSLIM
MAKE ISLAM A ROLE MODEL.
DONT FIGHT FOR NOTHING.

Hope these few words shall serve many of the questions of my brothers and sisters.

May Allah Bless all of us with the respect which we lost by our own hands.

Assalam O Elikum Warahmat Ullah Wabarakat

I have deleted the last post. Please use the english language so that people can understand. Transliterating another language is rude at best as it ignores everyone who cannot speak it.

Actually, let me lock this thread. Let it die.