"khan" wrote:

"The Great 100" wrote:

It is not a question of worse. The whole thing is awful. It is a question of reciprocal peace being the only peace.

yes mate flattening an entire country.. sounds like reciprocal peace to me..

i dunno.. the Jews have come into Israel surrounded by Muslims, and start committing all these horrid crimes.. yeh Muslim militants have attacked them back.. then they come back and attack them back even worse.

if you think about it, Whats Israel got going for them..? Their weapons, the Americans, the British, an atomic bomb maybe..

all at the expense of the worlds disgust at their behaviour in the name of the 'right to defend themselves'.

Thats how its gone down before, thats how its going down now..

That is entirely a creative point of view and it is disgusting.

Israel has not flattened an entire country.

i feel distgusted as well.. that the world sees whats happening.. and all they do is just talk..

sooner or later.. the talks of the international community are gna turn into walks.. I mean Israel could've been a great nation in the middle East,, the Jews found a safe haven.. u dont go around p!ssin your neighbours off in an attempt to act the big man.. they could resolved this a loooong time ago..

but due to its own fault.. its digging its own grave.

May Allah save them.

I'm tired of this nonsense.

[img]http://img305.imageshack.us/img305/2030/flagshr0.jpg[/img]

"Admin" wrote:

I would argue that.

Well then do so. Demonstrate that the Palestinian children are not educated to hate Israelis and that the Israeli children are really educated to hate Palestinians.

Again to your second point, Israel has withdrawn from Gaza is all. Don't get excited. You seem to prefer occupation. Earlier in the thread you claim to have 'won your bet' that Israel would occupy Lebanon. They will not occupy Lebanon. Again, your interpretation is very creative. They have said they will stay in a small buffer zone until a UN force that everyone seems to want (except maybe Hizbollah) arrives in the South, and that will be when Israel is done with Hizbollah.

I won't address your angry summary except to say the civilian deaths are awful but a predictable outcome of fighting Hizbollah.

Salam

"The Great 100" wrote:

the civilian deaths are awful but a predictable outcome of fighting Hizbollah.

Would they not say the same thing about Israeli civilian deaths?

Omrow

"The Great 100" wrote:

Cunning scum the both of you, not called for.

what is not called for? calling a spade a spade. the zionist plan for the middle east is nothing short of evil and no dont bother arguing there is no sense in arguing with the truth

and dont bother apologising for calling me scum i would not want any such apology it would be beneath me to expect one from u

u are a self confessed zionist and yet we rub shoulders with u almost on a daily basis here on the forum which shows our tolerance and good will but never presume to think us stupid or blind

Notice how 100man labels the other person and their arguments in negative terms. He rarely uses substance to tackle the argument being made.

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question is redundant

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useless and disingeuous

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disgusting

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your appraisal is inaccurate

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bitter

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creative

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angry

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absolutely full of bunk

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cynical

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the argument you are making subverts truth

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taunt

Furthermore he's relying on cliched arguments made by Israeli apologists that present Israel as some peaceful country which would only ever say boo to goose if provoked.

What the cliches and the propoganda prevent him from seeing is that Israel is the one unwilling to make peace and that it has regularly used unrestrained violence.

Quote:

if the sworn enemies of Israel - it is the only accurate moniker I can give them - give up being Israel's enemies, the situation of the Palestinians can be resolved pretty quickly

This isn't the first time Israel is in Lebanon.
Israel launched a full-scale invasion of Lebanon in 1982. This was after Yasser Arafat was making efforts to talk to the Israelis and the Americans were pressuring Israel to talk.
In July 2002 Palestinian militant groups agreed a suspension of attacks on Israel. But the israelis went and bombed a crowded Gaza apartment block kowing full well that innocent people would die.
The [u]current[/u] attack on Lebanon, the West Bank and Gaza came whilst efforts were being made by the palestinian presidet to get Hamas to recognise Israel.

I'm no expert on the middle east, but having read up on the history, it is clear that Israel is an illegal state, resting on lands which belongs to others. How will there ever be peace as long as this continues?

Beast's examples are not appropriate to his point. Most of them are meaningful in their context.

Admin, I asked you to back up your rebuttal and pointed out that you have not won your bet. Israel has agreed that when the missiles stop firing and Israel is done, the latter of which is shortly, there will be a Lebanese force and a French-led UN peacekeeping force. It is also likely that Shebaa Farms will be returned to either Syria or Lebanon under any long-term plan or even sooner. Then it will be clear. Hopefully there will be peace. I doubt it.

"Omrow" wrote:

Salam

The Great 100 wrote:
the civilian deaths are awful but a predictable outcome of fighting Hizbollah.

Would they not say the same thing about Israeli civilian deaths?

Omrow

Shalom Omrow,

No, they don't say the same thing about Israeli civilian deaths. They call it a blessed victory.

Hizbollah specifically fire from illegal posts at civilian areas. Israel before attacking drops warning of where and when it will attack and advises a civilian evacuation. It turns out Hizbollah if necessary are prepared to ride into Christian villages, fire at Israel and then leave again. ([url=http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,19955774-5007220,00.html]Sourc...)

laila,

I called you that because you made a disgusting political remark in a post relating to kas's friend who had been murdered. It was totally inappropriate and cunning. Oh and thanks so much for your daily goodwill. "u are a self confessed zionist..."
You are a self-evident bigot.

Allahuakbar really conveys the only honest sentiment and we simply disagree strongly, so on purely humanitarian grounds so we can get on with the future the thing is now we can talk and make peace or we can fight. Never mind the other BS arguments that Israel is deliberately obstreporous and Hamas and Hizbollah and the Syria and Iran leaders are simply demanding justice. Those parties lie and smear thoroughly with the most hateful and offensive possible representations of Jews, America and the UK. They seek to rally their followers behind apolocalyptic visions of destruction and victory. They seek to wipe Israel out. Any suggestion that Israel has long-term intentions in other lands really and truly is bunk. Between Israel and other western states Israel is the only one whose interest is self-defense. That is why it is honest for Allahuakbar to say "it is clear that Israel is an illegal state, resting on lands which belongs to others. How will there ever be peace as long as this continues?" The answer is that there will never be peace as long as you cling to the decimation of the state of Israel, but if you do there isn't much point in the two of us discussing this, we will simply take sides.

"Admin" wrote:

Your arguments are one sided.

(and you did exactly Beast said you do about his points!)

I don't care. Telling you that the argument about hateful Israeli kids is redundant was not personal. Telling me I do this and that, and Beast posting his critical analysis of my comments, was personal.

"Admin" wrote:

Granted I have not won our 'bet'. Things changed shortly after that post. Namely, Israel met fierce resistance and the politicians thought it better to blow people to smithereens through air attacks rather than a ground offensive.

Your bet, not mine. I told you Israel wouldn't invade. You were guessing then and you're squirming now.

"Admin" wrote:

I doubt if anyone has really tried to justify Hezbollah's actions. I have not.

khan initially did, so did Ed and Allahuakbar and by implication laila and possibly almost everyone.

"Admin" wrote:

I will look inot backing up my rebuttal once I have got the time. (big changes coming to the site are more important atm...)

So in the meantime don't be suggesting it's true.

"Admin" wrote:

SO Shebaa farms are under negotiations then... They were not before a couple fo days ago. I should try to keep up on these things. Next thing the Golan heights may be returned! (there is a long slope of things to 'negotiate' over, and to be honest I do not see peace anytime soon...)

That's what we're talking about and you're squirming. West Bank, Gaza Strip, Golan Heights. It's very close. What will your view be then? I suspect it will be as quietly submissive to the mujhahideen and subversively anti-Israeli as it has always been.

"Admin" wrote:

All that picure shows is a large gun on a truck. It may or may not be for use within suburban area's. Looks more like a transport run. (tactics really. You would surround more people than necessary around such an ipen target... unless you were moving equipment and people into position. I have not been in the military, but ven to me that is obvious. When commissioned for action, there would be one maybe two people with the gun. Avoid more injuries than necessary and that sort of thing if it got bombed...)

It's a pretty credible source. You have a lovely imagination.

"Admin" wrote:

Not gonna go into that whole illegal state argument, as its one that cannot be won or lost. Its a philosophical debate.

So long as it is.

"The Great 100" wrote:

It is also likely that Shebaa Farms will be returned to either Syria or Lebanon under any long-term plan or even sooner. Then it will be clear. Hopefully there will be peace. I doubt it.
.

Israel has no intention of returning that land to the Lebanese.

"The Great 100" wrote:

Hizbollah specifically fire from illegal posts at civilian areas. Israel before attacking drops warning of where and when it will attack and advises a civilian evacuation. It turns out Hizbollah if necessary are prepared to ride into Christian villages, fire at Israel and then leave again.

The IDF litter the area with leaflets demanding civilians leave the area.

Then they bomb any vehicle attempting to escape.

What is an acceptable civilian/terrorist ratio?

If one "terrorist" is surrounded by a dozen civilians the IDF will open fire anyway.
That is the morality of a Colombian drug Lord, not that of a “democracy” who claim to be the ancestors of Abraham and Moses.

"The Great 100" wrote:

Never mind the other BS arguments that Israel is deliberately [b]obstreporous[/b] and Hamas and Hizbollah and the Syria and Iran leaders are simply demanding justice.

Did you mean obstreperous?

I think that word defines your comments on this topic.

[i]ob•strep•er•ous P Pronunciation Key ( b-str p r- s, b-)
adj.

1. Noisily and stubbornly defiant.
2. Aggressively boisterous. [/i]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/obstreperous

Do you think that Israel’s security is improved by the brutal, savage, murderous revenge that the IDF Generals have visited upon Lebanon?

Do you really think that the people of Lebanon are more sympathetic to Israel now that the heroes of the IDF have flattened every bridge and major road in their country?

Israel has lost the support of every liberal, moderate, reasonable person in the Middle East and so have Israel's vocal supporters, the USA and Britain.

An Eye for an Eye indeed.

"The Great 100" wrote:

The answer is that there will never be peace as long as you cling to the decimation of the state of Israel, but if you do there isn't much point in the two of us discussing this, we will simply take sides.

"The Great 100" wrote:

we will simply take sides..

That's how Israel wants it.

Israel’s propaganda machine has gone into overdrive, judging by the coverage in the Rupert Murdoch controlled media.
Tony Blair is currently visiting him to pledge his support to gallant Israel.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,,1827023,00.html

"latifah" wrote:

"The Great 100" wrote:

It is also likely that Shebaa Farms will be returned to either Syria or Lebanon under any long-term plan or even sooner. Then it will be clear. Hopefully there will be peace. I doubt it.
.

Israel has no intention of returing that land to the Lebanese.

"The Great 100" wrote:

Hizbollah specifically fire from illegal posts at civilian areas. Israel before attacking drops warning of where and when it will attack and advises a civilian evacuation. It turns out Hizbollah if necessary are prepared to ride into Christian villages, fire at Israel and then leave again.

The IDF litter the area with leaflet demanding civilians leave the area.

Then they bomb any vehicle attempting to escape.

What is an acceptable civilian/terrorist ratio?

If one "terrorist" is surrounded by a dozen civilians the IDF will open fire anyway.
That is the morality of a Colombian drug Lord, not that of a “democracy” who claim to be the ancestors of Abraham and Moses.

"The Great 100" wrote:

Never mind the other BS arguments that Israel is deliberately obstreporous and Hamas and Hizbollah and the Syria and Iran leaders are simply demanding justice.

Did you mean obstreperous?

I think that word defines your comments on this topic.

ob•strep•er•ous P Pronunciation Key ( b-str p r- s, b-)
adj.

1. Noisily and stubbornly defiant.
2. Aggressively boisterous.

WWW.DICTIONARY.COM

Do you think that Israel’s security is improved by the brutal, savage, murderous revenge that the IDF Generals have visited upon Lebanon?

Do you really think that the people of Lebanon are more sympathetic to Israel now that the heroes of the IDF have flattened every bridge and major road in their country?

Israel has lost the support of every liberal, moderate, reasonable person in the Middle East and so have Israel's vocal supporters, the USA and Britain.

An Eye for an Eye indeed.

"The Great 100" wrote:

The answer is that there will never be peace as long as you cling to the decimation of the state of Israel, but if you do there isn't much point in the two of us discussing this, we will simply take sides.

"The Great 100" wrote:

we will simply take sides..

That's how Israel wants it.

Israel’s propaganda machine has gone into overdrive, judging by the coverage in the Rupert Murdoch controlled media. Tony Blair is currently visiting him to pledge his support to gallant Israel.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,,1827023,00.html

Well, that's an interesting reply.

The assertion you make is incorrect. Your cynicism is very important to me. It is very hateful. And incorrect. It has grave consequences. It is the product of immense villification. It is incorrect. Admin has made an unwise prediction. Now so have you.

There was news of a vehicle bombed trying to escape, several days ago. I am afraid that one incident doesn't remotely make your point.

If a terrorist is surrounded by civilians and fires at me and mine I will fire. Don't hang with terrorists. Terrorists, don't blend with civilians. Scum.

Thanks for correcting my spelling of obstreperous. You did it in a very childish way.

I find all these arguments pretty childish. They are not really true, and that weakens the true parts such as, it is disasterous that Israel kills civilians in these missions and there must be a way to hone closer, but obviously no solution can be at Haifa's expense. The missiles have been flying from Lebanon for many years and Israel wants to stop them.

"latifah" wrote:

Do you think that Israel’s security is improved by the brutal, savage, murderous revenge that the IDF Generals have visited upon Lebanon?

Do you really think that the people of Lebanon are more sympathetic to Israel now that the heroes of the IDF have flattened every bridge and major road in their country?

latifah, Israel's security is threatened either way. You are gloating about this. I know that many people of Lebanon want to accelerate the demise of Hizbollah. I am sure they are not delighted at the carnage. They understand, though, better than you seem to.

Either you support Israel's total destruction or you don't. If you do, whatever happens to your side is just tough. If you don't, you will acknowledge that Hizbollah's position is a problem.

"The Great 100" wrote:

Well, that's an interesting reply.

Thanks.

"The Great 100" wrote:

the assertion you make is incorrect. Your cynicism is very important to me. It is very hateful. And incorrect. It has grave consequences. It is the product of immense villification. It is incorrect. Admin has made an unwise prediction. Now so have you.

I do not wish to vilify Isarel. I support Israel’s right to exist wholeheartedly. I am cynical about Israel due to its actions and I do not think that I am swayed by propaganda from either side. I do not support Hezbollah, but I fully understand the anger that made The Revival Editor, Admin and Khan Comment on this topic.

Israel’s savage vengeance is undoubtedly vile.

You didn’t answer the question….what is an acceptable civilian/terrorist ratio?

Also, Is the IDF’S horrific overreaction going to

(1) make Israel more secure?
(2) Crush Hezbollah?

"The Great 100" wrote:

There was news of a vehicle bombed trying to escape, several days ago. I am afraid that one incident doesn't remotely make your point.

Currently, almost 500 Lebanese civilians have been murdered.
Those that killed them are violent, hateful terrorists.

"The Great 100" wrote:

If a terrorist is surrounded by civilians and fires at me and mine I will fire. Don't hang with terrorists. Terrorists, don't blend with civilians. Scum. .

What if the civilians can’t leave?

UN has been bombed.
Red Cross has been bombed.
Every major bridge in Lebanon bombed.

The innocents are killed “accidentally”, of course.

How many other nations would get away with opening fire on UN observers?

"The Great 100" wrote:

Thanks for correcting my spelling of obstreperous. You did it in a very childish way. .

I did. Sorry.
However, you are clearly being obstreperous on this topic.

"The Great 100" wrote:

latifah, Israel's security is threatened either way. You are gloating about this. I know that many people of Lebanon want to accelerate the demise of Hizbollah. I am sure they are not delighted at the carnage. They understand, though, better than you seem to. .

Gloating?

Do you seriously think I’m satisfied or pleased with this disaster?

The IDF have been shocked with the level of resistance of the Hezbullah. Therefore they have intensified their barrage on thousands of innocent Lebanese.
That collective revenge is vile.

"The Great 100" wrote:

I know that many people of Lebanon want to accelerate the demise of Hizbollah. I am sure they are not delighted at the carnage. They understand, though, better than you seem to..

I totally reject the idea that the majority, or even a large minority, of Lebanese are supportive of Israel vicious attacks on their country

"The Great 100" wrote:

Either you support Israel's total destruction or you don't. If you do, whatever happens to your side is just tough. If you don't, you will acknowledge that Hizbollah's position is a problem.

I support Israel’s right to exist.
I am horrified by Israel’s reaction to Hezbollah’s kidnap.
No other "democracy" could get away with such cruel tactics.

I ask you again; do you think Israel has strengthened it’s security by this brutal, murderous, revenge?

I second that completely - couldn't have said it better myself well done Latifah

"Odysseus" wrote:

I second that completely - couldn't have said it better myself well done Latifah

ditto.

He's still at it.

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not appropriate

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disgusting

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redundant

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squirming

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lovely imagination

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cynicism

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childish

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gloating

You haven't answerd the points I made in my last post or my questions about Finkelstein and Chomsky. Nor have you addressed my reply to Dawud a few pages back - except with the usual:

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jaundiced in the extreme

I forgot to mention in my last post that in Israel's 1982 invasion of Lebanon 18000 Lebanese were killed - mostly civilians. Since Israel's creation in 1948 22000 Israelis have been killed, mostly combatants. Israel use of excessive and indiscriminate violence against civilians is nothing new. All the talk of taking steps to avoid civilians is nothing but empty self-serving propaganda.

If you find Chomsky, Finkelstein, Fisk et al biased then to get a neutral view of Israel and its "operations" you only have to read reports by Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and B'Tselem. These reports are themselves used as sources by the named writers.

salaam

everyone needs to watch this:
http://www.therevival.co.uk/?p=601#more-601

and listen to chomsky here:
http://www.therevival.co.uk/?p=600

and ignore 100's bias, lies, propoganda and support for israeli terrorism and war crimes.

wasalaam

"Admin" wrote:

I do not care for chomsky. WHat he says may have substance, or it may not.

To be honest I do not even care for Israel. Unlike what some people may think, I do not hate Israel. I am indiferent to it. couldn't care less.

But what makes my blood boil is the masscre of innocents.

And what increases the temperature even further is when the bloody hy[pocrite blair, who is fully complicit in the whole mess says it is possible for the UN security council to get a resolution.

Too bloody right. The only stumbling blocks are bush and Bliar. WHo are complicit in the murder of many mahy people. What with providing weapons during the conflict. 'Here bomb that hotel now.' And then they get all righteous about supplying hezbollah weapons. Should get them some more powerful, targetted weaponry so that they can avoid populations, and actually get some sort of military targets.

The only way I see this situation sorting itself out is with alot of Israeli soldiers dying. I call for their blood. Only with their blood drawn will the bloodthirsty leadership of Israel see reason. But the corads will not allow that. Too happy to airbomb kids.

Cowards.

i can see admin is angry here...well, who isn't? apart from sick zionists like 100 who are loving it... making excuses for this massacre.... :twisted:

we are all in pain - crying and praying for the victims helps me and knowing as we all do that Allah is watching and waiting to dish out everyone's just desserts

in the end i find after the facts and figures of death tolls and political dealings of lies presented as truths and of truths presented as conspiracies there is only one way out of this mess and that is to keep heart and pray for peace.

and above all else to keep our heads whilst all are losing there's now that's the test of character

Assalamualaykum,

The most disheartening thing of watching day by day unfold of the brutality in Israel and Lebanon is that all these people are losing their lives for the cause of corrupt politicians, western and in the muslim lands.

How does humanity allow this to exist and continue?

Hi,

Why does any one try and reason with 100.

The actions he seems to try and defend are undefendable to anyone with half a sense of justice, Israel is Israel because of a promise made by God, the land that they are on is "stolen" they have only existed where they are because of the support of the USA and initially in part through terrorist activity.

They put the left hand of peace over the eyes of any one that doubts there integrity, sincerity or methods and then use the right hand to destroy the lives of thousands of innocent people.

I urge you, give up with him he is bound by his loyalty to his religion to ignore the facts.

[url=http://board.finalummah.com/index.php?showtopic=1462&pid=6365&st=0&#entr... for the faint hearted[/url]

How cum the lebanese army isn't doing anything?