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Im talking abt the Muslim Ummah. The Muslim Ummah does not mean every1 who claims to be a Muslim but means those who follow the Tawheed of ALLAH and the SUNNAH of the Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam.
"If your love is sincere then obey him; for the lover obeys the one whom he loves."
"When a community takes to misdeeds, it takes to decorating Mosques"
You've still not addressed my second question.
who, i refer to as the TuQ followers, i refer back to my post on the Adhaab thread.
"If your love is sincere then obey him; for the lover obeys the one whom he loves."
"When a community takes to misdeeds, it takes to decorating Mosques"
1 - Have you spoken to a representative sample of those who follow the Tawheed of ALLAH and the SUNNAH of the Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam about Shaykh Tahir ul Qadri and his followers and have they all told you that MuQ are bid'ati's?
2 - Do you know of any of those who follow the Tawheed of ALLAH and the SUNNAH of the Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam who refuse to call Shaykh Tahir ul Qadri and his followers bid'atis.
3 - Is it a prerequisite for those who follow the Tawheed of ALLAH and the SUNNAH of the Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam to call Shaykh Tahir ul Qadri and his followers bid'atis?
No.
No.
no.
I havent come here to be interrogated and I know exactly what you're trying to do "Beast" .... I have answered your questions and stick with my beliefs....becuase in the light of the Quran and the Sunnah what TuQ and people of his Cult propogate is nothing but deviancy. Playing with words here and there can make truth seem like falsehood and falsehood seem like truth but keeping a clear mind it is clear as daylight that the things that majority of people believe on this forum are so wrong as to be shameful - May Allah guide us All. Ameen.
"If your love is sincere then obey him; for the lover obeys the one whom he loves."
"When a community takes to misdeeds, it takes to decorating Mosques"
I have nothing personal against TuQ, nor do i have anything personal against you
as the saying goes
do not hate the Sinner but hate the Sin .
when I see something which is clearly wrong then Im sorry, but my Imaan demands that I enjoin good and forbid Evil.
"I urge you to follow my Sunnah and the way of the rightly-guided khalîfahs after me; adhere to it and cling to it firmly. Beware of newly-invented things, for every newly-invented thing is an innovation (bid'ah) and every innovation is a going-astray."
(Narrated by Ahmad, 4/126; at-Tirmidhî no. 2676).
"Whoever innovates anything in this matter of ours (i.e., Islâm), that is not part of it will have it rejected.'
(Narrated by al-Bukhârî, 3/167, no. 2697; al-Fath, 5/355).
If your love is sincere for our Beloved Prophet(peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) then you should take up the methods prescribed by our predecessors
Loving the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) implies keeping his Sunnah alive, adhering firmly to it, and avoiding words and deeds that go against it. Undoubtedly everything that goes against his Sunnah is a reprehensible innovation (bid'ah) and a manifest act of disobedience. That includes celebrating his birthday and other kinds of bid'ah. A good intention does not mean that it is permissible to introduce innovations into the religion.
"If your love is sincere then obey him; for the lover obeys the one whom he loves."
Wassalam.
"If your love is sincere then obey him; for the lover obeys the one whom he loves."
"When a community takes to misdeeds, it takes to decorating Mosques"
salaam
forgive me sis but u really should do ur research before u decide to slander!! u sound as if ur educated then why??
He is a respected elder, he has more islamic knowledge than u, u say u follow Quran and sunnah yet u fail to follow the main concepts of Huququl Ibaad and Adhab.
How can you then say that "the majority of the population" call Shakh Tahir ul Qadri and followers "bid'atis"?
Can you say for certain that such people don't exist?
So in your opinion it is possible for someone to follow the Tawheed of ALLAH and the SUNNAH of the Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam and not call Shaykh Tahir ul Qadri and his followers "bid'atis"?
I really dont understand how such an innocuous person could cause such a stir... people either really love this guy or really hate him but from everything i've read of him or by him he seems to be a most average muslim cleric... what am i missing here?
That's probably it. He's "moderate" and he's good at it - really good.
So instead of debate or discussion "sectarian"-minded people resort to name-calling.
beast, stop reiteratively asking questions, and go on and make a point if you have one.
"If your love is sincere then obey him; for the lover obeys the one whom he loves."
"When a community takes to misdeeds, it takes to decorating Mosques"
But there are many moderate clerics... Hamza Yusuf for instance, he's the man. But his followers dont call themselves "Zaytunans" and he doesnt have a cadre of bizarre individuals criminalizing everything he does...
Is there any other quality to Qadri other than his moderateness that attracts people?
which is?
"If your love is sincere then obey him; for the lover obeys the one whom he loves."
"When a community takes to misdeeds, it takes to decorating Mosques"
Just answer the questions.
Humour me...
i answered your questions, i cannot rephrase my answers like you reiterate yourself,
go to the humour thread if your looking for humour.
"If your love is sincere then obey him; for the lover obeys the one whom he loves."
"When a community takes to misdeeds, it takes to decorating Mosques"
Zaytuna is a school. People go their to study. And it has very few students compared to say Minhaj University.
Minhaj ul Quran is a much bigger organisation and aims not only to teach Islam in a formal context but also to do charity work and distribute Islamic literature for the average person. There's much more to it. I don't know all that much. Others on the forum could tell you more.
Hamza Yusuf has his critics. Just look at the kind things some people on the MPAC forum say about him. A read on one forum he's had death threats issued against him... (but I doubt it)
Shaykh Tahir ul Qadri has a big profile generally in Pakistan. Given the size of MuQ and the Shaykh's political activites he gets alot of attention. And he's critics give him more attention by attacking him. Other moderates from around the world find him to be a good person to deal with. He's not close-minded and sectarian like many of the other high profile religious personalities in the Subcontinent.
Right... well... to get to my ultimate question. This is pretty solid Qadri territory, everybody knows this, is it possible people are coming here just to provoke a reaction?
Med used to smile and "lol" when he made insulting statements with question marks on the end, nobody ever really noted that, but i got the distinct impression he was just saying a lot of this for fun.
Barelvi are a comical bunch.
I'm not asking you to rephrase your answers.
Go on... What are you afraid of?
That's the other thing I've yet to really understand this "barelvi" "deobandi" thing... it's like andover and exeter or the red socks and yankees... the wikipedia entries about them makes them appear ideologically identical
What are these things and why do they hate each other? Is Qadri a Barelvi?
Was there any need for that?
They genuinely make me laugh, not often the police have been called 11 times to the same Masjid because Barelvi clan are rotten
I feel like banning everyone, so that I am the only one on here.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
im afraid of a lot of things....
shall i start with my phobia?
"If your love is sincere then obey him; for the lover obeys the one whom he loves."
"When a community takes to misdeeds, it takes to decorating Mosques"
what is your definition of a Berelwi?
"If your love is sincere then obey him; for the lover obeys the one whom he loves."
"When a community takes to misdeeds, it takes to decorating Mosques"
I have no idea what one is - defining is going to be a bit difficult
There's actually not much difference between Barelwis and Deobandis. Often it's just sectarianism for the sake of sectarianism.
The school of Deoband in India in I think the 19th century wanted to reform Sufism by bringing in some fairly uncontroversial new ideas (under the pretext of going back to the roots). Imam Ahmed Reza Barelwi on the other hand sought to maintain traditional Sufism. Over the years the followers of Deoband and Imam Ahmed Reza Barelwi evolved along sectarian lines. Nevertheless there are still personalities from 19th century India who are seen as legitimate by both Deobandis and Barelwis. The differences of opinion are mostly over minor ideologocal issues. Often it's sectarianism for the sake of sectarianism.
Shaykh Tahir ul Qadri could fall under the category of Barelwi. But, I think (I stress think), he would rather call himslef a Sufi. There are (hardline) Barelwis who don't like Shaykh Tahir ul Qadri. They accuse him of apostasy for being too conciliatory towards Shias and Deobandis.
There are various contemporary Sufi scholars from around the world who are seen as legitimate by both Barelwis and some Deobandis - Nu Ha Mim Keller and Abdal Hakim Murad for example. Differences of opinion may exist but they are seen as legitimate differences. Such openness is not extended between Barelwis and Deobandis themselves for some reason.
I think Shaykh Tahir ul Qadri would like to be seen as a global all-embracing Sufi scholar rather then be tied down by often petty sectarian differences arising from the Subcontinent - ie Barelwi vs Deobandi.
That's my perspective anyway.
You can start by answering my questions.
4 - How can you then say that "the majority of the population" call Shakh Tahir ul Qadri and followers "bid'atis"?
5 - Can you say for certain that such people don't exist?
6 - So in your opinion it is possible for someone to follow the Tawheed of ALLAH and the SUNNAH of the Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam and not call Shaykh Tahir ul Qadri and his followers "bid'atis"?
So this is some kind of civil war between sufis in the subcontinent?
Stress on "some kind of".
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