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I have already shown that these were taken from shi'tes book usul kafi. did you not read that part?
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Salam
Some Shias who existed in the early centuries at the time of Bukhari used to claim that Quran has been changed.
Omrow
The shahada is to be muslim. After that, the declaration of faith is:
'I believe in Allah, and his angels, and his books, andhis messengers, and the last day, and that all good and bad is from Allah, and life after death.'
If you believe the Qur'an has been altered, you are contradicting the verse which says it cannot be altered. Thus you are saying the Qur'an is wrong. You do not believe in the book as the word of God, thus you cannot be muslim.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
What if we had seperate threads about how Salafis, Deobandis, Brelwis, Sufis are all kafirs? :idea:
I mean, lets be fair to everyone now...
good idea
I think we did have a thread where the brewli's were being dissed
I need to dig it up
and then after that-we can spend all of our time trying to prove how all of the others are kafr too
[quote="Admin"]
The Head Shi'te of the recent past.
Imam Khomeini writes in his book 'A1Hukumatul Islamiyah'
[size=24]
[color=red]'It is a necessary principle of our faith that our Imams have ranks that exceed those of close angels and the appointed messengers.'[/color][/size]
After this. Any1 who accepts Khumayni as an imam or as a leader cannot remain a muslim
Answer me people. Fear ALLAH.
This statement of Khumayni is clear kufr.
I rest my case.
People are saying malik accepts quran, i have shown y he says that according to their hadeeth in usul kafi, but even then malik's statements abt Sahaabah Karaam are apparent evidence.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Salafis and Deobandis don't even respect the Prophet, nevermind Quran.
I'll quote myself here.
Heere is something so far missed by Med, and goes against his evidence.
And Maliks own words:
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
oh i saw the references for the shi'as 'quotes', i meant what is the source for your post i.e. did u get those points from a website, a book, or did u find those (shi'a) references yourself and then write up those points...?
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
maybe he thinks he knows better then the Shia what they believe and what they dont :roll:
This would mean that some Wahhabis have the ability the read the mind - something which even the Prophet couldn't do.
Genuises. :shock:
They always were a clever bunch. :roll:
Idiots.
just one prob - Med isnt a Wahhabi... :roll:
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
The shia's are more divided (in belief... in practice they seem more united) than the Sunni's.
Some believe in one thing, others another. Even inside the same sect.
As always our positions should be
1. If anyone rejects the qur'an as the word of God, they are not muslim.
2. If anyone does not believe in the Finality of prophethood with the Messenger of islam (saw), they are not muslim.
3. A prophet is better than a normal believer.
4. We do not accept insulting the Sahaabah. This is very sinful.
After that, no point bashing, as not everyone has the same measure..
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Oh...
Tell me more about them.
Salam
So number 4 does not make them non-muslims ?
Why don't you add that drinking alcohol is also sinful.
Omrow
why not?
It is the muslim position that the consumption of Alcohol is haraam.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Salam
Admin. My point in replying to your post was that why add number 4 in that list of yours ?
According to you, it has no bearing on one's status as a muslim.
And irfan. Make a thread.
Omrow
My auntie is a Shia
she dont reject the quran
she believes in the finality of Prophet-
and of course she knows that Prophets are better the believers
and she has NEVER dissed any sahaba
wow-I guess she aint a kafir then :roll:
I put that there, as before it was hinted that insulting the sahaabah was kufr. It is fisq. A very bad sin.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Out of curiosity where does sin go so far as to make a person not a muslim?
Admin on your last point you noted it was "very sinful"
I mean you all do sin... but you're all muslims, so is this sin of a different kind or degree?
a sin dont make a person a non Muslim
but if a Muslim dont think that there is anything wrong with missing prayer or drinking alcohol then he is commiting KUFR-but is still not a non Muslim
only wrong beliefs make a person a non Muslim
The amount of sin depends on your actions.
If there is an islamic ruling that things are haraam, it is VERY sinful to do the act.
To deny the act is haraam leads to disbelief, as only those things are haraam which have been clearly labelled so in the Qur'an.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Some have raised the doubt that perhaps the shi'tes of old believed these deviations, the ones today dont.
That is a valid question.
It must be accepted that Khumayni was the Head Sh'ite of recent past. Only 20 odd years back did he bring about the so-called 'islamic' revolution in iran.
What does this Khumayni believe exactly? Which books does he recommend and which ''scholars'' does he consider authentic and upright.
A prolific writer of persian religious books for the shi'tes was on Mullah Baqir Majlisi. He wrote a great many enormities. If I quote him then again people may say he was of old, what is his connection to the shi'tes today?
Khomeini writes about the prestige and worth of the oft-quoted Mullah Baqir:
[color=red]'Keep on reading the Persian books written by Majlisi so that you do not fall into any stupidity.' (Kashful Asrar: 121)[/color]
So Khumayni is recommending Baqir in kashf e asrar.
What does Baqir have to say about the Sahaabah Karaam?
1. 'Regarding the doctrine of' 'Tabarri' we believe that we should seek disassociation from [color=red]four idols [/color]namely, [color=red]Abu Bakr, Omar, Uthman and Mu'awiyah[/color]; from four women namely, Ayesha, Hafsa, Hind and Ummul Hakam, along with all their associates and followers. 'These are the worst creation of Allah. It is not possible to believe in Allah, His Messenger and the Imams without disassociating oneself from their enemies. ([color=red]Haqqul Yaqeen: 2:519)[/color]
Baqir calls the MOST EMINENT SAHAABAH KARAAM idols and encourages tabarra on them. Khumayni has instructed his followers in kashf e asrar to take note and read Baqir. Is this Kufr or Islaam?
2. 'One should say after each prayer: O Allah! Curse Abu Bakr, Omar, Uthman, Mu'awiyah, Ayesha, Hafsa, Hind and Ummul Hakam. [color=red](Aynul Hayat: 599)[/color]
Here Baqir has invoked and encouraged invoking curses on our Mothers and upon our Masters and upon our Mistresses alayhim ridhwaan. It is widely known that shi'tes send la'nat on Sayyidina Ameer Muawiyah radhiyallahu anhu and upon Yazeed. This is in no way hidden.
I refer you to shianews.com and article Muaweyah Father of Wahhabis
Even that article is enough to declare their kufr. Above is what under the surface the shi'tes believe abt the Sahaabah Karaam.
What have I just written?
1. Khumayni has recommended Mullah Baqir Majlisi's persian books.
2. Majlisi has declared tabarra on Sahaabah Karaam, calling them idols and recommending invocation of curses on them.
Conclusion.
Shi'tes of the modern era too hold the same despicable beliefs as their ancestors. They are kafir. Their core beliefs have remained unchanged, so the fatawa of kufr put on them by the Elders of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah - including Imam Abu Haneefah, Imam Malik, Imam Shafi'ee, Imam Ahmad still stand.
May ALLAH protect our imaan.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Okay it sounds like you two fundamentally disagree on whether kufr is the same as disbelief...
Salam
Adultery is very bad sin. Rape is an even worse sin.
So answer the question Admin.
Does doing the number 4 on your list take you outside Islam ?
Omrow
Admin.
In light of this thread can we now expect to see Alhlul Bidahs galore on this forum?
Not as far as I know.
But I do not know everything...
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Is that a new sect ?
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