Salaam
Is this statement offensive?
I don’t think it is. I personally know Imams who are dynamic and charismatic speakers…who returned to college for a year or so to perfect their English.
Allah (swt) says in the Quran "We sent every Messenger speaking the language of his people so that he may explain to them"
Is it wrong to expect your Imam to be clued up with that’s going on?
Is it wrong to expect your Imam to know about the society he is dealing with?
Is it wrong for the Imam to be able to relate and understand the Muslim youth today?
Doesn’t it make sense for one Imam of the Mosque to perfect his English rather then expect hundreds of local Muslim youth who attend that Mosque to learn Urdu/Bengali/Gujarati etc
Is it to much to ask the Imams of a country to learn the language of the country so that they can connect-do dawah effectively?
In my opinion language isn’t enough. We shouldn't stop there, in fact it is very, very important that they understand the mindset, culture, attitude, and mentality of the people too. This leads to another issue that we need to have scholars/imams from amongst us.
OR is this disrespectful? Is it wrong to expect a man who has spent a significant amount of his time studying Islam in depth to attend our rough colleges as a mature student?
In the past Imams has extremely high statutes…today they’re just ridiculed and blamed left, right and centre.
Who is to blame for this extreme lack of respect? Our youth, for living in a time where they have an issue with respecting higher authority? OR the Imams for not fulfilling the needs of the Western society?
I heard someone once say (and it made me laugh) “Isn't this "imitating the kuffar"? Isn't the language of the Qur'an Arabic, not English?
Anyways, share your thoughts please
Wasalaam
I have actually heard some imaams describe the english language as the language of the dogs. Some imaam have actually made out like it goes against their belief to even consider learning another language apart from Urdu.
But we did have this one imaam come down to our community for a while, he was the one who house got fire bombed and lost 8 member of his family. Anyway i didn't have the pleasure of learning from him, but the youngster who did all turn out well. It amazing to see. The reason why, was the imaam didn't just see his role as teaching the children how to read the quran and leading jamaat as many do. He took a pro active role in making sure that the children life involve islam, too the extend he took them to the park to play cricket and help them with their homework. If they miss a day of mosque, he used to go round their house and enquire about them, he also done a good job in getting the parent involve in the children education. When they used to come too read namaaz, he used to be please and didn't complain about them making a noise at the back, some of them came to fajr once and he made them some food too eat, all the youngster still speak fondly of him.
This was only able to happen because Imaam had learnt english and not only that, took a active interest in what was happening in the community, he used to understand the problem the youth was having and was willing to tackle them, he even used to go to the school to teach. He also held classes for the slightly older youth where he explain the quran in english. Because the problem we see today are mostly people reacting to the problem that were created years of ago, because of inactivity, which is carrying on infecting the next generation of youth. Having a good imaam ain't going to solve the problem we face, but it will go a long way to making it better.
"A true Muslim is thankful to Allah in prosperity, and resigned to His will in adversity."
[url=http//www.guidancemedia.com/videostream.php?id=Burda.mov]Quran[/url]
Imams can't understand cultures and attitudes if they don't understand the language.
Last Friday the imam gave an English sermon. Left alot to be desired. I doubt anyone understood what he was getting at apart from a few sentences here and there. At least when they give Urdu sermons half the congregation can understand.
Freshie and desi Imams make me laugh. looooooooooooooooooool
Salaam
Considering that alot of the second generation (thats us) dont always understand their mother tongue it is important for the imaams to be able to communicate with them in the language they do know, English.
At one of our local mosques there an imaam who does the Friday sermon in both English and Urdu. IMO hes very good (although i think he may be from here :? ).
Wasalaam
Ramz u shouldnt make fun outta the Imams-even if they cant speak English
thats very immature of u
but this behaivour is common amongst teenagers
they lack manners
Any religious person Imam, Priest, Rabbi, Pastor that's erudite and clued up on modern affairs impresses me right off the bat.
For whatever reason I find that Sufis especially have those characteristics.
Religious training is high level - it seems to be that one must master, or at least have a very good understanding of human affairs, before they begin to look at divine affairs.
theres ALOT of these top imams out there
not funny
thats very profound Snobby Dave
(I diss u and compliment u just to keep ur feet on the ground :twisted: )
btw how many Sufi's do u know?
I'm capable of profundity!
lol oddly enough most of the muslim clerics I know Sufis. One of them explained to me that during the 70's sufism became really big among hippies... who got a little weird with it, but they brought over "missions" from places in central asia - I think Tajikistan was the big one to establish these strange little disciplships called "murids" or something like that and gradually sufism in america turned from weird hippy nonsense to something a lot closer to how it should be practiced.
The west has lots of sufis but so do parts of NE. And those Sunnis I [i]have[/i] met have been very open to Sufis and also very erudite - none of this ranting nonsense or massive argument between the two that people bring up on the forum alot.
This isn't totally surprising though, most of the muslims scholars I know are in NE closer to where I live up in Marthas Vineyard, and New England has a long history of elitism amongst their religious scholars. It's not totally uncommon to see pastors, priests rabbis and imams agreeing more than disagreeing.
At home in Charleston there are significantly less muslims but even there erudition is pretty big.
Throughout most of the US there is a strange phenomenon of cooperation between clerics of various faiths - especially in the North, far less so in the South. I think this might be the result of the perception religion is "under attack" by the state - but who knows. Anyway if you are close to any member of the community, be it your own pastor or somebody else you are necessarily in contact with everybody.
I don't get the feeling Britain is the same... which is unfortunate.
Subhanallah!
it kinda is....and kinda isnt in britain
i think in USA you will also find a similar thing, your lucky you come across some good people there
stick to em
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
Thats waay cool
ur right-the Sufi movement aint that common here
and even though Sufi's only preach love and tolerance and self control etc
to be called a "lazy sufi" is considered a diss :roll:
but what do they know
lol most of the really good people never make it to the stage. People like Hamza Yusuf are all well and good, but the real winners just stay at home and write theological books which never make it to the New York Times but become staples in theological education.
Shirley Guthrie and Leila Ahmed (whom I have had the honor of meeting thrice now) are two excellent examples.
I 100% gaurantee you have never heard of them - in fact I would say you probably have a better chance of knowing who Guthrie is rather than Ahmed - the muslim.
Just because they aren't out there like little attention hogs gleaning it up. Incidentally any ladies interested in "feminist islam" read anything by Leila Ahmed
Dave dont try to lead me astray :evil:
I already have a feminist inclination as it is
lol right.
A shy feminist.
You are a mysterious girl.
Not all feminists are big mouths
and STICK TO THE TOPIC
I LOVED this point of urs
"Religious training is high level - it seems to be that one must master, or at least have a very good understanding of human affairs, before they begin to look at divine affairs"
[size=7]stupid, snobby Dave[/size]
So is there a particular direction you wanted to go with that or did you want me to expand the thought for your further enlightenment, amusement and what is more likely confusion.
No-I totally agree with u
Do elaborate
Ookay well then try this one on for size.
It's like that old joke about the priest in the flood. He's waiting standing in the water while it rises up and a boat comes along and offers to pick him up - but he says "no, I am praying and God will deliver me from this flood" so the people in the boat float off somewhat confused and the water continues to rise. A little while later another boat comes along and now the water is up to his shoulders - they offer to carry him over and tell him to stop standing in the water or he will drown. He tells them that he is praying and that he will not drown because God will deliver him and the boat should keep going. A third boat comes along - now the water is up to his neck and they try to pull him into the boat, he pushes them off and says "NO! God will deliver me from this flood - I have been prayer for an hour now and he will save me from drowning" so they push off and soon after the priest drowns. So he goes to heaven and meets God and says "Why did you let me drown?! I prayed for an hour for you to help me but you didn't do anything!" God frowned and responded "What are you talking about!? I sent you THREE boats but you kept refusing!"
If people don't have a grounding in human affairs, and try to find greater depth in religion they suffer from a serious problem. The whole point of studying religion is to learn what our relationship is to God - not about figuring out what he's like or what he is thinking. Christianity, and Islam both believe that God isn't just some passive stone that watches and doesn't interact - both religions believe he builds relationships with his people. Thus to ignore the goings on of human affairs is in some ways ignoring the goings on of God's affairs - you run the potential to miss how he is interacting with humans contemporarily.
Yeeeees.....
If I had a beard I’d be stroking it and nodding-pretending that I know what ur chatting about
...so that was basically a colossal waste of time.
Thanks.
[size=7]$%!@%!!!!![/size]
Nah, it was correct.
You have to have knowledge.
I remember I went to this religious gathering a eyar ago, at the same time as the assault of fallujah.
I was invited up for a few quick words.
I lambasted everyone for not caring about the residents f fallujah.
The scholar asked me afterwards 'What is Fallujah?'
I was shocked.
Saying that, there are many good scholars aswell.And alot of scholars are learning Islam in the UK (There is Jamia Al-Karam which is trying to do the whole course in English... final years in cairo)
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Fallujha....Moonlight...wilmslow road....dessert?
or is that Faluda? :oops:
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
lol. you have given a whole new meaning to an assault on Falujah!
I do not like Faludah too much...
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
mmmm Faluda from Whimmy Rd
btw Mr Admin what are u chatting about
imams shud learn english
talking to an imam that only speaks urdu is a mare!
how ever intellegent they may be they will always look dum
they shud also admit when they are wrong
and they shud respect other ppl's opinion
What you put in the hearts of others; is what goes back into your own heart…
Course its a nightmare for you. You're an arab aint ya! :twisted:
(caught red handed?)
But in the UK, the Imams should be fluent in English, and be actively involved within the community.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
please oh please tell me u 2 are kidding?! :?
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
yea i know they
:!:but they aint
i know sum imams that r right lazy buggerz
if they do speak english u can't understand dem wid there dodgy accent, and in some sentences they speak partially english and partially urdu and it gets pretty confusing and kinda annoying when they ask me a Q about what they were talking about to make sure u have been listening. ppl often think i am taking the piss but i honestly cannot understand ppl that have strong accents. If ya got a yorkshire or b'ham accent den i cud understand ya perfectly anything else ([i]especially[/i] paki) accent i won't be able to understand ya...
there are still way too many imams in england that hit kids. that is sooooooo evil :evil: :evil: :evil: . my old imam had a scary looking wooden stick, it put u off going to mosque :evil: i once got hit by his wife with a plastic stick, it may have been plastic but it really hurt :evil: :evil: :evil:
The ahadith says that kids that don't pray shud be hit.
but the koran says that god is merciful.
a contradiction eh?
What you put in the hearts of others; is what goes back into your own heart…
Great posts Dave!
It’s SO true. What’s the point of conveying the message if you don’t even know the language or the psychology of the people that you are dealing with.
Exactly - it seems to me that without a real knowledge - [i]and interest[/i] in people you either come off as some weird vampiric bookworm that's several shades too white from not seeing the sun, and several shades too creepy from lack of human contact - or you come off as arrogant and elitist.
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