so Imams dont bother to learn English cos either they

1-arrogant

2-lazy

3-too busy

4-dont see the need

5-think its too hard

6-they already think they are experts in the English language :twisted:

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

so Imams dont bother to learn English cos either they

1-arrogant

2-lazy

3-too busy

4-dont see the need

5-think its too hard

6-they already think they are experts in the English language :twisted:

lol i've honestly never met an imam that couldn't speak english (unless you count the ones from Boston, hehehhe)

They are all 50 year old Korean war vets that have worse southern accents than I do - or Bostonian, in which case they frighten me.

Seems like there is a lot less of this "back home" stuff over here.

Back home here usually means either Brookline or Cobbleston Ridge.

There are two types of imam

1. Proper scholars.

2. People imported ti fill vacancies in mosques, as the pay is too measely for uk-born people.

We are chatting about the latter.

Proper scholars generally know many languages. However thye are outnumbered by those who are imported to fill vacancies.

In the past few years, this is starting to be rectified, but the image will take a long long time to fix.

"Admin" wrote:

There are two types of imam

1. Proper scholars.

2. People imported ti fill vacancies in mosques, as the pay is too measely for uk-born people.

We are chatting about the latter.

Proper scholars generally know many languages. However thye are outnumbered by those who are imported to fill vacancies.

In the past few years, this is starting to be rectified, but the image will take a long long time to fix.

Oh there is always good old Saudi Arabia always willing to lend a scholar or two [size=7]usually when one is not requested so they can jam their prosaudi byzantine idea of islam down your throat[/size]

Filling gaps is never a problem with your good friends on the Arabian gulf.

The Saudi ones make sure they know languages (I think).

because we (majority of UK muslims) do not agree with Saudi, the imports are generally not linked to saudi, or any of its institutions, and suffer on the languages front, aswell as many other shortcomings.

The longterm solution is british born scholars educated in british madrassah's in English.

That is being addressed, but a scholar course is not short, and for a full implementation, it will take years.

1. There needs to be a lot of british born scholars who are educated abroad.
2. These scholars teach in the uk IN ENGLISH.
3. These scholars are of the calibre that they can be used to teach potential scholars in english.
4. English scholars taught by english scholars spread out teaching in english.

Step 1 is being done, and step 2 is in the proicess. A few places are on step 3, but these are few and far between.

I only know of one place that is at phase three and there are a few opthers that I think are at a similar level, but not many.

"Admin" wrote:

The Saudi ones make sure they know languages (I think).

because we (majority of UK muslims) do not agree with Saudi, the imports are generally not linked to saudi, or any of its institutions, and suffer on the languages front, aswell as many other shortcomings.

The longterm solution is british born scholars educated in british madrassah's in English.

That is being addressed, but a scholar course is not short, and for a full implementation, it will take years.

1. There needs to be a lot of british born scholars who are educated abroad.
2. These scholars teach in the uk IN ENGLISH.
3. These scholars are of the calibre that they can be used to teach potential scholars in english.
4. English scholars taught by english scholars spread out teaching in english.

Step 1 is being done, and step 2 is in the proicess. A few places are on step 3, but these are few and far between.

I only know of one place that is at phase three and there are a few opthers that I think are at a similar level, but not many.

OPERATION BILAL

lol

Anyway... why don't they just have translators for khutbahs in the mean time?

There are short term solutions, but they are inadequate.

At khutbah time there are at places two speeches.... one in urdu, and another in english.

translators are good and all, but they have their limitations. If they know the subject in enough detail to be able to fully translate... will they not already have the job?

"Admin" wrote:

There are short term solutions, but they are inadequate.

At khutbah time there are at places two speeches.... one in urdu, and another in english.

translators are good and all, but they have their limitations. If they know the subject in enough detail to be able to fully translate... will they not already have the job?

True...

The problem with our imams is:
1. they are appointed by higher clerics
2. higher clerics get appointed by rulers
And you know who are our rulers!
This is all.
And this all is not right.
Always our imams in the past were picked by two criteria reputation and capabilty.
Now these criteria are still there, but right people are not there, because not all of them are fit to seat where they are now according to the criteria mentioned.
And English language is not a problem, I know lots of people, who are not native English speakers, but are excellent orators and imams. And I know some people who are not native Arabs, but learned this language so well, that they can not only deliver a speech but also translate ancient books.
So language is not a problem, the problem is in people, who make and create these problems.
And that is very sad!

"rubitron" wrote:

The problem with our imams is:
1. they are appointed by higher clerics
2. higher clerics get appointed by rulers
And you know who are our rulers!
This is all.
And this all is not right.
Always our imams in the past were picked by two criteria reputation and capabilty.
Now these criteria are still there, but right people are not there, because not all of them are fit to seat where they are now according to the criteria mentioned.
And English language is not a problem, I know lots of people, who are not native English speakers, but are excellent orators and imams. And I know some people who are not native Arabs, but learned this language so well, that they can not only deliver a speech but also translate ancient books.
So language is not a problem, the problem is in people, who make and create these problems.
And that is very sad!

Ahhh I remember you! You really need to work out the format of your posts. It doesn't make much sense that you have these long unbroken statments and then just
a word or two
Followed by a short statement.
And another really long unbroken statement regarding something you mentioned in passing above, along with your central conclusions to whatever point or argument
you are making.
It's distracting.

"Don Karnage" wrote:

"rubitron" wrote:

The problem with our imams is:
1. they are appointed by higher clerics
2. higher clerics get appointed by rulers
And you know who are our rulers!
This is all.
And this all is not right.
Always our imams in the past were picked by two criteria reputation and capabilty.
Now these criteria are still there, but right people are not there, because not all of them are fit to seat where they are now according to the criteria mentioned.
And English language is not a problem, I know lots of people, who are not native English speakers, but are excellent orators and imams. And I know some people who are not native Arabs, but learned this language so well, that they can not only deliver a speech but also translate ancient books.
So language is not a problem, the problem is in people, who make and create these problems.
And that is very sad!

Ahhh I remember you! You really need to work out the format of your posts. It doesn't make much sense that you have these long unbroken statments and then just
a word or two
Followed by a short statement.
And another really long unbroken statement regarding something you mentioned in passing above, along with your central conclusions to whatever point or argument
you are making.
It's distracting.

Ahh I remember you too!
I remember your past recommendations on the same thing. But man I have to tell you that all your criticizm is pure smoke. It is nothing based on nothing out of nothing. because even my style is a bit out of norm.
But it is MY style.
And I do not want to conform.
So let's not play teacher and student game, especially when you play the role of teacher, unless I'll ask you for this, if I ever need a service of pirate Don Dave Karnage who pretends to be a grammarian of this forum.
Who saw a man claiming that he is a pirate but acting like a boring schoolmistress?
Stick to your image Dave! Don't forget you are a pirate!

"rubitron" wrote:

"Don Karnage" wrote:

"rubitron" wrote:

The problem with our imams is:
1. they are appointed by higher clerics
2. higher clerics get appointed by rulers
And you know who are our rulers!
This is all.
And this all is not right.
Always our imams in the past were picked by two criteria reputation and capabilty.
Now these criteria are still there, but right people are not there, because not all of them are fit to seat where they are now according to the criteria mentioned.
And English language is not a problem, I know lots of people, who are not native English speakers, but are excellent orators and imams. And I know some people who are not native Arabs, but learned this language so well, that they can not only deliver a speech but also translate ancient books.
So language is not a problem, the problem is in people, who make and create these problems.
And that is very sad!

Ahhh I remember you! You really need to work out the format of your posts. It doesn't make much sense that you have these long unbroken statments and then just
a word or two
Followed by a short statement.
And another really long unbroken statement regarding something you mentioned in passing above, along with your central conclusions to whatever point or argument
you are making.
It's distracting.

Ahh I remember you too!
I remember your past recommendations on the same thing. But man I have to tell you that all your criticizm is pure smoke. It is nothing based on nothing out of nothing. because even my style is a bit out of norm.
But it is MY style.
And I do not want to conform.
So let's not play teacher and student game, especially when you play the role of teacher, unless I'll ask you for this, if I ever need a service of pirate Don Dave Karnage who pretends to be a grammarian of this forum.
Who saw a man claiming that he is a pirate but acting like a boring schoolmistress?
Stick to your image Dave! Don't forget you are a pirate!

[img]http://www.piratehaven.org/~beej/pirates/images/jolly.png[/img]

[size=18]YAAAAR![/size]

"Don Karnage" wrote:

"rubitron" wrote:

"Don Karnage" wrote:

"rubitron" wrote:

The problem with our imams is:
1. they are appointed by higher clerics
2. higher clerics get appointed by rulers
And you know who are our rulers!
This is all.
And this all is not right.
Always our imams in the past were picked by two criteria reputation and capabilty.
Now these criteria are still there, but right people are not there, because not all of them are fit to seat where they are now according to the criteria mentioned.
And English language is not a problem, I know lots of people, who are not native English speakers, but are excellent orators and imams. And I know some people who are not native Arabs, but learned this language so well, that they can not only deliver a speech but also translate ancient books.
So language is not a problem, the problem is in people, who make and create these problems.
And that is very sad!

Ahhh I remember you! You really need to work out the format of your posts. It doesn't make much sense that you have these long unbroken statments and then just
a word or two
Followed by a short statement.
And another really long unbroken statement regarding something you mentioned in passing above, along with your central conclusions to whatever point or argument
you are making.
It's distracting.

Ahh I remember you too!
I remember your past recommendations on the same thing. But man I have to tell you that all your criticizm is pure smoke. It is nothing based on nothing out of nothing. because even my style is a bit out of norm.
But it is MY style.
And I do not want to conform.
So let's not play teacher and student game, especially when you play the role of teacher, unless I'll ask you for this, if I ever need a service of pirate Don Dave Karnage who pretends to be a grammarian of this forum.
Who saw a man claiming that he is a pirate but acting like a boring schoolmistress?
Stick to your image Dave! Don't forget you are a pirate!

[img]http://www.piratehaven.org/~beej/pirates/images/jolly.png[/img]

[size=18]YAAAAR![/size]

Nice photo!
Yours?

That's my personal Jolly Roger

Shiver mi timbers!!