Because there was misery but there was a sort of peaceful starvation of the population. it was quiet.

Now its loud and the death rate is soaring too, compounding the normal abject misery.

And this action is new. If the current rate of bombings continues over a longer period of time expect people to eventually get switched off.

wednesday wrote:

and is it appropriate to think "maybe it's for the best?" ... because it IS happening?

It is appropriate to think that something good may follow, but I doubt anyone can say the current actions are good.

They are not necessary IMO. They just "are". They are happening.

Hamas is a movement that I do not have it in me to condemn as a whole. Occasional actions be some epople maybe, but they are and have been forged through resistance, a child of war and occupation.

A good site I have not visited in a long time: http://electronicintifada.net/

Unashamedly biased, but they are high quality and they do generally have good articles/analysis.

Gaza Demonstration and Rally dates across the UK

Following is a list of dates, places with timings where demonstrations against the Israeli raid on Gaza are scheduled.

Thursday 1st January 2009

BRISTOL
5pm to 6pm. Centre, opposite the Hippodrome

LONDON
2pm to 4pm. Outside Israeli Embassy, Kensington High Street, London, W4. Nearest tube Kensington High Street (turn right out of tube station and walk along the main road.

Friday 2nd January 2009

BRISTOL
5pm to 6pm. Centre, opposite the Hippodrome

LONDON
2pm to 4pm. Outside the Egyptian Embassy, 26 South Street, London, W1K 1DW. Call for Egypt to open the border immediately.

MANCHESTER
5pm to 7pm. Piccadilly Gardens. Vigil and leafleting.

Saturday 3rd January 2009

BRADFORD
1pm. Infirmary Fields, Bradford - March and City Centre rally

BRISTOL
3pm to 4pm. Centre, opposite the Hippodrome.

DURHAM
Assemble 10.45am for 11am start. Gaza protest march from Millennium Square (Gala Theatre) through Durham to Cathedral.

EDINBURGH
12 Noon. Foot of the Mound, Princes Street.

EXETER
12 Noon at Bedford Square, Exeter High Street
Bring flowers and wear black if you can
One minute vigils every half hour
Well have petitions, leaflets, banners etc. Join in with friends, relatives, EVERYONE!!

GLASGOW
12 Noon. Outside Lloyds TSB St Vincent Street, then assemble for demo at Blytheswood Square at 2pm

HASTINGS
3pm Vigil in Harold Place.

HULL
11am. Queen Victoria Square.

LIVERPOOL
12 Noon to 2pm St. Lukes Church - top of Bold Street.

LONDON (Major Rally)
12.30pm onwards. Demonstration and rally: Assemble at Parliament Square/Embankment, SW1. Nearest tube Westminster.

MANCHESTER
Assemble: 12 noon on Cavendish St, All Saints Park on Oxford Rd. Manchester (further down from the BBC) March through city centre to Albert Square.

NEWCASTLE
12 Noon to 2pm Greys Monument in Newcastle.

NORWICH
12 Noon to 1pm, Outside St. Peter Mancroft Church in the Millennium Library Square

PORTSMOUTH
11am. Guildhall Square. Organised by Portsmouth Network for a Just Settlement of the Arab-Israeli Conflict, and Portsmouth Stop the War Coalition.

SHEFFIELD
Assemble at 12 Noon. Outside Sheffield Town Hall.

TUNBRIDGE WELLS
12 Noon. Tunbridge Wells shopping precinct

YORK
1pm. St. Sampsons Square in York.

The Last Prophet of Allah (swt) stated:
'He who amongst you sees something abominable should modify it with the help of his hand; and if he has not strength enough to do that, then he should do it with his tongue; and if he has not strength enough to do even that, then he should (at least abhor it) from his heart; and that is the least of faith'
[Sahih Muslim]

">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7EqyTS0s24]

Thee pics in that video are a different issue but inshallah that will be sorted very soon now. Like 20 January soon.

The dua sounds good.

Dua for Gaza (ahlu-sunnah)

">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnTZZMk7w2Y]

@ weds - Do we focus too much on this one conflict?

Hamas prime minsiter sounded so confident he can win Israel.

He said we are closer to victory than you might think.

If he orders strike on nuclear plants, Israel will be over.

It seems that Hamas is saving its long range rockets for later to teach Israel a lesson...

Quote:

Hamas rockets threaten Israel’s nuclear plant

Military chiefs fear that new long-range Hamas missiles could threaten the country's nuclear facility at Dimona

The Times January 2, 2009

Gaza rockets put Israel’s nuclear plant in battle zone

Growing concern over Hamas’s new arsenal

James Hider in Beersheba

Israel on high alert after Hamas call for 'day of wrath'

There were growing fears in Israel last night that Hamas missiles could threaten its top-secret nuclear facility at Dimona.

Rocket attacks from Gaza have forced Israelis to flee in ever greater numbers and military chiefs have been shaken by the size and sophistication of the militant group’s arsenal.

In Beersheba, until a few days ago a sleepy desert town in southern Israel, there is little sign of the 186,000 inhabitants. Schools are closed and the streets of shuttered shops echo with the howl of sirens warning of incoming rockets.

Israeli planes, meanwhile, began a new stage yesterday in their offensive on Gaza, killing Nizar Rayyan, a senior Hamas official. The one-tonne bomb in Jabaliya is also understood to have killed two of his four wives and four of his twelve children. More than 400 Palestinians have been killed in the six days of Israeli attacks.

Despite a diplomatic mission by Tzipi Livni, the Israeli Foreign Minister, to Paris, the Israeli army continued to muster thousands of troops and scores of tanks along Gaza’s border for a possible ground offensive. Israel’s airstrikes are designed to blunt Hamas’s capacity to fire its new Grad missiles deep into its territory. The weapons are smuggled in through tunnels and by sea, replacing homemade Qassam rockets.

Israeli officials say that Hamas has also acquired dozens of Iranian-made Fajr-3 missiles with an even longer range. Many fear that as the group acquires ever more sophisticated weaponry it is only a matter of time before the nuclear installation at Dimona, 20 miles east of Beersheba, falls within its sights. Dimona houses Israel’s only nuclear reactor and is believed to be where nuclear warheads are stored.

“Maybe Hamas will get a big present from Iran or Hezbollah, a few good long-range missiles and they’ll use it,” said Limor Brina, 40, a jeweller who is learning the lessons of life under rocket threat: she sleeps with her clothes on and heads to a shelter whenever the siren sounds.

Israel’s worst nightmare is that soon all its cities will be within range either of the Hezbollah Katyushas arrayed on the Lebanese border to the north or the increasingly sophisticated missiles stockpiled by Hamas to the south. Both groups have links to Israel’s archenemy Iran.

Israel has said that its aim is to smash Hamas’s rocket-firing capability but also to topple the hardline Islamist regime that seized power in the Gaza Strip in 2007 after bloody street battles with its secular rivals Fatah. Until that goal is achieved, many in Beersheba are packing their bags and heading for Tel Aviv or Eilat.

“Maybe 30 or 40 per cent of people have left the city,” said Ron Shukron, 26, running one of the few grocery shops still open. As he spoke a siren echoed through the empty streets. With only 15 seconds to take cover, he stepped under a reinforced support beam in the ceiling. Seconds later came the dull thud of a rocket exploding on the edge of town.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5430133.ece

Hamas unveils arsenal of long-range missiles
Israel confirms that Palestinian militants are now using missiles capable of penetrating more than 30 miles across the border

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/

There were growing fears in Israel last night that Hamas missiles could threaten its top-secret nuclear facility at Dimona.

Why not provide GPS coordinates with that info?

Omrow, the articles you have quoted are not reliable. First of all they try to justify Israel's attacks on Gaza by relaying Israeli paranoia and secondly they downplay the human cost of Israel's attacks on Gaza.

Let me explain the first part. The nuclear sites are out of Hamas' range.

The article titled "Hamas unveils arsenal of long-range missiles" was published 1 January. The article titled "Gaza rockets put Israel’s nuclear plant in battle zone" was published 2 January.

The first article says that Hamas is firing longer range missiles into Israel. Hamas used to fire Qassam rockets 7.5 miles into Israel but they are now firing Grad missiles 13 miles into Israel. But this "new arsenal" doesn't threaten Israel's nuclear sites. Israel's nuclear plant at Damona is 50-miles from Gaza. The nukes are out of Hamas' range.

So why the fear about attacks on nuclear sites? Well, Israel thinks Hamas might get its hands on the Fajr-3 missile. This will fire 29 miles into Israel. But at 29 miles Hamas still can't reach Israel's nuclear facilities, which are 50 miles away.

Israel has no proof that Hamas has, or is trying to get, the Fajr-3 missile. The Times has no proof either. The Times just paraphrases an Israeli intelligence officer and assumes that whatever he says must be true. First article looking very suspect.

Without any evidence to back-up the claim about the Fajr-3, the article then just slips into the final paragraph something about the Fajr-5 missile. the Fajr-5 has a greater range than the Fajr-3 but there is nothing solid in the article to say that Hamas acquiring the Fajr-5 is a possibility. It's just one para at the end of an otherwise useless article.

Now, the article titled "Gaza rockets put Israel’s nuclear plant in battle zone". The first para reads "There were growing fears in Israel last night that Hamas missiles could threaten its top-secret nuclear facility at Dimona." But the article then doesn't mention anything about nuclear sites until para 6.

Para 6 reads, "Israeli officials say that Hamas has also acquired dozens of Iranian-made Fajr-3 missiles with an even longer range. Many fear that as the group acquires ever more sophisticated weaponry it is only a matter of time before the nuclear installation at Dimona, 20 miles east of Beersheba, falls within its sights. Dimona houses Israel’s only nuclear reactor and is believed to be where nuclear warheads are stored."

This para 6 is the only para to say anything to back up the assertion in the headline. But note how this para talks about the Fajr-3. As we established earlier the Fajr-3 has a range of 29 miles and there is no evidence to say that Hamas has these weapons. There are only Israeli "fears". But why would they be afraid their nuclear sites will be targeted if Damona is out the range of these weapons? Simple. There are no "fears". It's all propaganda.

And these two articles have swallowed the propaganda no questions asked.

The Times even supplies a graphic to help us discredit it.

In times like these you really shouldn't take anything the right-wing papers report as news at face value. So ignore the "news" content of the Times.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/jan/02/kettering-town-palestine

Kettering Football Club chairman supports Palestinian plight
The slogan 'Palestine Aid' will be emblazoned on Kettering Town's shirts for their FA Cup tie with Eastwood Town

[IMG]http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/8658/ketteringtownspalestinedm6.jpg[/...

Clickity click.

And that finishes in 2000 too so is not taking into account any land confiscations since.

The Genocide in Palestine isn't something new. And I find it troubling that atrocities like this only seem to come to our attention when there's an overflow of deaths spilling into the media.
Palestine has been subject to the mistreatment of the Israelis since the first Intifada, and it shouldn't take for nearly 450 people to die for us to take action and speak up, if we had any true understanding of the term Ummah, then we might have made some progress in alleviating the suffering of those in Palestine.
Yes those in Palestine, especially those in gaza are in desperate need of our help now, but they've been in need of our help for a long time, and if it wasn't for the fact that the majority of the time we choose to ignore them, then maybe we could have prevented something of this scale happening in the first place.
And now, now that so many have lost their lives at the hands of the Jews, we march the streets and sign petitions. But in all honesty, what long term effect do we think it will have? Marching the streets and chanting slogans encouraging 'peace' wont solve the problem-the time for peace was over sixty years ago at the start of the first Intifada, the time for peace has gone.
And now we see Arab governments, saying "Kuluna Ghaza" (we are all Gaza) and "Bilrouh bidemn nafdeeki ya Ghaza" (with blood and soul we strive with Gaza), you see its so easy for people to talk while they live relatively comfortable lives, but how many of them are willing to actually take action and make a difference? These people are a shame on the Muslim people and a disgrace-because we know full well that if they had any intention of helping, they could.
We also see many Arab governments who ridicule Muslims organisations such as Hamas-who apparently started the whole commotion in the first place and who are now preventing it from ending. My question is what would you do if it was your land and your people, Palestine does not belong to the Israelis, it never has and God willing never will. There's a limit to how far you can push people before they revolt, this is the case for the Palestinians,and even if it takes them to their deaths they will fight to gain back the holy land of Al-Aqsa, why? because they understand the true meaning of what and Ummah IS and what it is NOT, and how heart breaking must it be for those Palestinians who know and understand that although we can help we choose to remain doubtful and unwilling in their time of need. And you can disagree with that statement proclaiming that people do see and do take action-but the people of Palestine themselves are proof enough that nothing substantial has be done on our half.
We need to understand where our support lies, and then we can show it to other people and make an impact for the better of our people, until then we have no hope of change.

Propaganda war: trusting what we see?

BBC

Israel has tried to take the initiative in the propaganda war over Gaza but, in one important instance, its version has been seriously challenged.

Israel released video of an air attack on 28 December, which appeared to show rockets being loaded onto a truck. The truck and those close to it were then destroyed by a missile.

This was clear evidence, the Israelis said, of how accurate their strikes were and how well justified. A special unit it has set up to coordinate its informational plan put the video onto YouTube as part of its effort to use modern means of communications to get Israel's case across.

It turned out, however, that a 55-year-old Gaza resident named Ahmed Sanur, or Samur, claimed that the truck was his and that he and members of his family and his workers were moving oxygen cylinders from his workshop.

The Israeli human rights group B'Tselem put Mr Sanur's account on its website, together with a photograph of burned out oxygen cylinders.

The Israeli propaganda effort is being directed to achieve two main aims.

The first is to justify the air attacks. The second is to show that there is no humanitarian calamity in Gaza.

Israel has bolstered its approach by banning foreign correspondents from Gaza, despite a ruling from the Israeli Supreme Court.

Pictures of dead and wounded children have undermined its claim to pinpoint accuracy and the longer this goes on, the greater the potential for world public opinion to swing against it, with diplomatic pressure building for a cessation.

Its presentational problems would be hugely increased if it engaged in a ground operation, which would bring with it more pictures of death and destruction.

Urban.rust wrote:

even if it takes them to their deaths they will fight to gain back the holy land of Al-Aqsa

Hm.

wednesday wrote:

You know what? I wouldn't like this to hault temporarily now... If it has begun, it must end. I am sick of seeing a sustained civil rivalry.

Also, What do you think might be the short and long term effects of such scenario?

It is very hard to speculate as to what might happen. Noncombatants, ordinary Palestinians, are in the midst of this and innocents number heavily among the 450 killed, I have on the other hand a hope that Israel accomplishes its objectives against Hamas, and I am concerned that the mood here, despite your good nature, is not a place for my personal equivocations or flag-waving. In time I'm happy to discuss the matter but the mood is heated. So I haven't added anything just now. Wednesday, by all means PM me and I will be around tomorrow to reply.

Do Israel pilots feel happy killing innocent women and children?

A Palestinian in Gaza chronicles life under Israeli bombardment

...

Thursday 1 January

In the morning I get up early and call a friend who lives in Alshabora camp. He confirms the attack had hit there and I go to meet him.

It looks like an earthquake. Many houses have been damaged, and many people have been wounded. The people who had escaped injury were trying to clean the place up – they have nowhere else to go. But the biggest shock is when I ask about the target. It was the children's playground.

"We heard a strong explosion happen, but with all the smoke and the dust we couldn't see well, and the electricity was off," I am told by a small child.

"We saw everything fall down – the window broke on us. We went downstairs, and people were saying that the playground's been targeted. This park is not a member of Hamas, it's a park for playing. It's for civilians – so why did they attack it?," asks one 12-year-old girl who lives nearby.

The target was a civilian area – but there was no warning, not one phone call from the Israeli army to tell civilians to beware.

I visit the main hospital in Rafah. There are so many injured people, most of them children. In one ward, I meet four children aged five or six. They are in deep shock. They can't speak, they just look at you.

Only one child could say his name: "Abdel Rahman". That's all he can say. Otherwise, he just stares. He's five. His ear was wounded by shrapnel, his head is covered by bandages.

There is a 16-year-old girl also suffering from shrapnel injuries. Three of her brothers were killed; all her family were injured. She looks like a zombie and says nothing at all. Her mother is dying in the intensive care unit.

The hospital manger, Abu Youssef Alnajar, gives the statistics for 1 January: two dead – a young man aged 22 and a woman aged 33; 59 injured – 16 children, 18 women and the rest old people. Most of them had been sleeping when the bombs dropped.

I go back home and the first thing I do is take a shower. I feel really upset after what I have seen. As always I am trying to cope with the situation but sometimes it is too much to deal with.

A short message to the pilots in the Israeli F-16s: does it make you feel happy to kill Palestinian children and women? Do you feel it's your duty? Killing every child and woman, man and teenager in Gaza? I don't know what exactly you feel, what exactly you think, but please think of your mother and sister, your son and daughter.

...

Gaza Diary at The Guardian

As was anticipated, Israel now launches a land invasion into Gaza:

Quote:

[h2]Israel launches assault across Gaza's borders[/h2]

Chris McGreal in Jerusalem
guardian.co.uk, Sunday 4 January

Israel last night dramatically escalated its war with Hamas, sending troops and tanks pouring over Gaza's borders in a move designed to reoccupy parts of the northern Gaza Strip. Amid reports of fierce clashes inside Gaza, columns of military vehicles and what the army said was "a sizeable number of troops" moved across the border at several points, backed by an intense air and artillery bombardment.

The move followed the failure of a week-long air force offensive, which has claimed more than 460 Palestinian lives, to halt the Hamas rockets. More than 30 hit Israel yesterday, wounding three people. Israel's defence minister, Ehud Barak, said his country was a peace-loving nation but Hamas had given it no choice and brought the assault on the Palestinian people. "Now is the time to do what needs to be done," he said. "It won't be easy. It won't be short. I don't want to delude anyone." The government in Jerusalem ordered the call-up of tens of thousands of reservists, suggesting the operation will be expanded further. The army said it expected to be in Gaza "for many long days".

France last night was swift to condemn the invasion, which it described as a dangerous military escalation that "complicated efforts by the international community to end the fighting, bring immediate aid to civilians and reach a permanent ceasefire". In London the foreign secretary David Miliband said the intensification of the Israeli assault would cause "alarm and dismay" and renewed calls for a swift cessation of violence. The UN Security Council also scheduled an emergency meeting to discuss the crisis, as the EU troika prepared to visit the region tomorrow.

Hamas broadcasts denounced the assault and said: "Gaza will be Israel's cemetery." The group claimed to have killed Israeli soldiers blown up in an armoured vehicle by a land mine, but there was no confirmation. Israeli forces claimed to have killed a number of Hamas fighters. Palestinian medics said at least one child and two other civilians were killed during the invasion.

As the ground incursion began, Israel jammed Hamas television broadcasts and replaced them with a caption: "Hamas leadership, your time is over."

The Israeli prime minister's spokesman, Mark Regev, described Hamas as "a totalitarian Taliban-like regime" but denied the intent of the assault was to remove Hamas from power.

The Israeli army said the invasion was intended to take control of territory from where Hamas fired its rockets. While it said Gazan civilians would not be targeted, a military spokesman added: "Anyone who hides a terrorist or weapons in his house is considered a terrorist."

"The objective is to destroy the Hamas terror infrastructure in the area of operations," said a spokeswoman, Major Avital Leibovitch.

"We are going to take some of the launch areas used by Hamas. We have many, many targets. In my estimation, it will be a lengthy operation."

Israeli forces also moved in to the Rafah area along Gaza's southern border with Egypt, where Hamas has used tunnels under the frontier to smuggle in weapons, including some of the rockets fired in to Israel. But the tunnels have also been used to bring desperately needed food and medicines into Gaza.

A spokesman for Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, said he "vigorously condemned" the Israeli ground offensive. But Israel won the backing of the Czech government, which holds the EU presidency. Czech Prime Minister Mirek Topolanek said the Israeli assault was more "defensive than offensive".

But the invasion will be a blow to diplomatic efforts to win a truce. Hours before Israeli tanks crossed into Gaza, Gordon Brown called for an "immediate and urgent ceasefire" and for the territory's border with Egypt to be opened to allow in aid and for civilians to escape.

Brown is also understood to have appealed for Israel to step back from an incursion in a phone conversation yesterday with the Israeli leader, Ehud Olmert. Brown said there were issues on both sides to be tackled, including Hamas rocket attacks on Israel. Asked if he considered Israel's assault justifiable on the grounds of rocket attacks, Brown said: "I want an immediate and urgent ceasefire, but we want it to be based on deliverables for the future."

Last night UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon added his voice to the condemnation and called for an immediate end to the ground operation. He was reported to have expressed his "extreme concern and disappointment" to Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert in a telephone conversation.

Diplomats said that Tony Blair, envoy for the major powers sponsoring Middle East peace talks, is expected to hold discussions today with Israeli and Palestinian leaders, but not Hamas. The French President, Nicolas Sarkozy, is expected in Jerusalem tomorrow on a prearranged visit, but Israel has already rejected his call for a 48-hour ceasefire to allow in more humanitarian aid.

The exiled leader of Hamas, Khaled Meshaal, has rejected a ceasefire in Gaza until Israel agrees to end its three-year blockade of the territory, which has caused economic collapse and widespread hardship. "We will not break, we will not surrender or give in to your conditions, he said." Meshaal also warned that the organisation would defeat the Israeli ground assault.

The Israeli army did not say how deeply it intended to penetrate Gaza, but if it moves into built-up areas, it is likely to face strong resistance from Hamas, which has successfully destroyed armoured vehicles in the past, with political repercussions for Israel. But Israel said it was not the start of a total reoccupation of Gaza.

The ground offensive followed a day of heavy air, sea and artillery bombardment that left at least 18 people in Gaza dead, including children, and scores wounded. Twelve were killed when an Israeli missile strike hit a mosque in Beit Lahiya as worshippers were praying inside.

The death toll as the Israeli assault entered its second week rose to more than 460 Palestinians, about one third of them civilians or policemen, with four Israelis killed by Hamas rocket fire. An Israeli air strike also killed another senior Hamas official, Abu Zakaria al-Jamal. Israeli forces attacked the American school in Gaza, killing a guard. The Israeli military said the school was being used to store Hamas weapons and to shelter its fighters.

source

Quote:

[h2]Riot police called out in London as protest ends in skirmishes [/h2]

By Emily Dugan, Kaarina Miles and Richard Osley
Sunday, 4 January 2009
independent.co.uk

Riot police were dispatched to the Israeli embassy in London last night as a day of protests across Europe degenerated into ugly skirmishes.

In London Israeli flags were set ablaze and surging crowds were penned back by police with shields and batons. Some protesters were in tears, claiming they were being stopped from leaving peacefully, and organisers said they would complain about police heavy-handedness. Others, growing more aggressive as news of Israel's ground invasion spread, threw missiles while police tried to drive them back. Late into the evening, several hundred were still staring down officers outside the embassy.

The London ambulance service said it had helped one man with a head injury and others with minor bruises after sending a team of 25 to the scene.

Tens of thousands initially took to the streets, even as Israeli forces were firing shells from the border of Gaza. In London, where the largest rally was held, Trafalgar Square turned to a sea of black, white, red and green – Palestinian national colours – as what organisers claimed were up to 55,000 people showed up in the largest British demonstration for the Palestinian cause. Police claimed the size of the protest was far lower.

In the crowd was the singer Annie Lennox, the comedian Alexei Sayle, Tony Benn and George Galloway. Lennox told the crowd: "We are looking at a huge human rights tragedy in front of us. The idea of an air assault combined with a ground war in such a tightly packed area as Gaza is unimaginable. It will be a bloodbath. Hopefully now we will see dialogue, dialogue, dialogue."

The thrust of the protest was aimed at the British government's inaction over the Israeli attacks on Gaza, as the onslaught started its second week. One marcher, Omar Lemrini, 45, helped to carry a fake coffin covered in images of dead civilians and children. "This is the second Holocaust," he said. "It's a question of conscience now."

Some 30 organisations, including the British Muslim Initiative, the Stop the War Coalition and the Palestine Solidarity Campaign, joined forces for the protest. Hemmed in by police, the marchers resorted to the symbolic throwing of shoes into Downing Street. Hundreds of old shoes were hurled over barriers and gates to represent the Palestinian lives lost in the bombing. The gesture echoed the protest by Iraqi journalist Muntadar al-Zaidi, who threw his shoes at President Bush last month in protest at US "war crimes".

David Carr, 45, a nurse, contorted his face in fury as he picked up his battered brown shoe and tossed it over the railings: "I helped search for the people who were injured in the London bomb blast, so I know what it means," he said. Two people broke through the police barrier to make a dash for Downing Street.

The protests were mirrored elsewhere with marches in France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Spain, Holland and Turkey. In Edinburgh and Glasgow, around 1,000 were involved in marches which police said passed peacefully. In Paris, 20,000 demonstrators descended on the city centre chanting "Israeli murder".

source

Urban.rust wrote:

The Genocide in Palestine isn't something new. And I find it troubling that atrocities like this only seem to come to our attention when there's an overflow of deaths spilling into the media.
Palestine has been subject to the mistreatment of the Israelis since the first Intifada, and it shouldn't take for nearly 450 people to die for us to take action and speak up, if we had any true understanding of the term Ummah, then we might have made some progress in alleviating the suffering of those in Palestine.
Yes those in Palestine, especially those in gaza are in desperate need of our help now, but they've been in need of our help for a long time, and if it wasn't for the fact that the majority of the time we choose to ignore them, then maybe we could have prevented something of this scale happening in the first place.
And now, now that so many have lost their lives at the hands of the Jews, we march the streets and sign petitions. But in all honesty, what long term effect do we think it will have? Marching the streets and chanting slogans encouraging 'peace' wont solve the problem-the time for peace was over sixty years ago at the start of the first Intifada, the time for peace has gone.
And now we see Arab governments, saying "Kuluna Ghaza" (we are all Gaza) and "Bilrouh bidemn nafdeeki ya Ghaza" (with blood and soul we strive with Gaza), you see its so easy for people to talk while they live relatively comfortable lives, but how many of them are willing to actually take action and make a difference? These people are a shame on the Muslim people and a disgrace-because we know full well that if they had any intention of helping, they could.
We also see many Arab governments who ridicule Muslims organisations such as Hamas-who apparently started the whole commotion in the first place and who are now preventing it from ending. My question is what would you do if it was your land and your people, Palestine does not belong to the Israelis, it never has and God willing never will. There's a limit to how far you can push people before they revolt, this is the case for the Palestinians,and even if it takes them to their deaths they will fight to gain back the holy land of Al-Aqsa, why? because they understand the true meaning of what and Ummah IS and what it is NOT, and how heart breaking must it be for those Palestinians who know and understand that although we can help we choose to remain doubtful and unwilling in their time of need. And you can disagree with that statement proclaiming that people do see and do take action-but the people of Palestine themselves are proof enough that nothing substantial has be done on our half.
We need to understand where our support lies, and then we can show it to other people and make an impact for the better of our people, until then we have no hope of change.

You have highlighted the matter, and the problems, and the fact that "marching the streets and chanting slogans encouraging 'peace' wont solve the problem", and that we need "to actually take action and make a difference". Appreciated. But you have not suggested any solutions or proposed any appropriate actions?

Why Israel went to war in Gaza

'Are you a target if you voted for Hamas?' Last night Israel sent its ground forces across the border into Gaza as it escalated its brutal assault on Hamas. As a large-scale invasion of the Palestinian territory appears to be getting under way, Chris McGreal reports from Jerusalem on Israel's hidden strategy to persuade the world of the justice of its cause in its battle with a bitter ideological foe

It is a war on two fronts. Months ago, as Israel prepared to unleash its latest wave of desolation against Gaza, it recognised that blasting Hamas and "the infrastructure of terror", which includes police stations, homes and mosques, was a straightforward task.

Israel also understood that a parallel operation would be required to persuade the rest of the world of the justice of its cause, even as the bodies of Palestinian women and children filled the mortuaries, and to ensure that its war was seen not in terms of occupation but of the west's struggle against terror and confrontation with Iran.

After the debacle of its 2006 invasion of Lebanon - not only a military disaster for Israel, but also a political and diplomatic one - the government in Tel Aviv spent months laying the groundwork at home and abroad for the assault on Gaza with quiet but energetic lobbying of foreign administrations and diplomats, particularly in Europe and parts of the Arab world.

A new information directorate was established to influence the media, with some success. And when the attack began just over a week ago, a tide of diplomats, lobby groups, bloggers and other supporters of Israel were unleashed to hammer home a handful of carefully crafted core messages intended to ensure that Israel was seen as the victim, even as its bombardment killed more than 430 Palestinians over the past week, at least a third of them civilians or policemen.

...

Read More @ Guardian.co.uk

Well, someone needs to stand up to Israel and have the guts to say: "Enough is enough."
I don't agree with genocide, I don't agree with butchering civilians, while your enemy only kills 4 of your men.
We are really critical of Hamas, as we should be, but what about Israel? Weren't their families going through exactly the same thing 60 or so years ago under Nazi rule? Whoever disagrees with this genocide, I can say that you're better than the Zionists.
When will Israel realise that it isn't above justice, and the more civilians it massacres the more popular Hamas becomes.

The Lamp wrote:

Well, someone needs to stand up to Israel and have the guts to say: "Enough is enough."

It's not about guts - its about might. and Israel is much more mightier than its neighbours. America does have the might, and the money to get it to change its mind, but that would cause a lot of internal divisions as one thing over the years that has not been called into questions is its unwavering support for Israel.

But haven't you said that America has the might, but it doesn't have the guts. It's the guts that make the might, you know.

Two brief points:
Whatever you like to call it, this is no genocide.
Intervention on humanitarian grounds might be reasonable, but Hamas has a clear ideology that is rejected not just by Israel and that costs any legitimate Palestinian cause a great deal in terms of support. Indeed it is only that ideology and its manifestation that gives Israel cause to fight. Criticism of the campaign is not a terrible thing but it seems the fact of Hamas's position is easily forgotten while some ostensibly wonder how Israel could do such a thing.

They ideology of Hamas does not matter - it cannot and will never not ever be able to carry out actions which are anywhere near the idealogical goals.

What it is is a reaction. The harder it or the apeslinian people are hit, the more extreme it will become.

The more Israel targets legitimate infrastructure, the most ingrained the support for Hamas will become.

And yes, I consider the Israeli actions to be mass murder.

Regardless of our difference of opinion, mass murder would be the correct term to use if the campaign is unjust. Genocide carries a different meaning.

yup.

If/when journalists are allowed in maybe we will have an answer over whether the actions are genocide or not. Its unlikely, but until then a lot of who is being killed apart from random figures is open to debate.

But we should probably avoid using that term.