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There has to be a baseline standard. Surely you can agree with that.
i.e. No bad smells (as it is undesirable to pray in a place where bad smells permeate). Water or sand to perform purification, as a major function on the mosque is Prayer.
Can you agree to that Med?
Gentleness and kindness were never a part of anything except that it made it beautiful, and harshness was never a part of anything except that it made it ugly.
Through cheating, stealing, and lying, one may get required results but finally one becomes
you are too romanticised with the notion of a mosque.
There are real issues out there. and just to be finicky, not all mosques are equal in standing. There are the haramayn. The bait ul Maqdis. Then Jameh Mosques. Then local mosques.
I am not asking on a rating to be a mosque. They are all mosques. but a rating on services rendered. Simply put:
Does it generally have an appointed imam present for all five prayers?
Does it have Jumu'ah salaah?
Does it have classes?
Does it have classes in english?
Does it have facilities for the sisters?
Does it provide a curricilum of Islamic Education or just reading the qur'an?
Does it have councelling facilities?
Does it have a noticeboard?
Is it open 24/7? (Not always possible, but I have heard of guests accidentally being locked in!)
It can be rated on those points and more.
If you have a real issue, lets face it. But so far, its more about having a romanticised notion with no argument to back it up.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
What you call romanticised is in my view better described as adab - respect.
The arrogance to think some secular body goes around marking mosques revolts me. The mosque aint some crappy co-ed school or a steelworks factory that people of jahaalat go and assess it.
Its the house of ALLAH - before bowing your heads to the creation and the government have some shame of the One who created you and honour His House.
Thats all I've got to say on the matter.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Why does it have to be secular? are Muslims not capable of having an objective criteria?
And why is it revolting to m,ake sure a mosque functions as it should be finctioning? Its always good to have checks and balances. We can all hope nothing goes wrong, but its always best to have contingencies.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Those responsibility to insure the Masjid are maintain well in accordance with some suggestions Admin drawn up is fair and I agree- this should be our responsibility and not some government body.
Perhaps Revival team should arrange a interview with the committee of East London Mosque
well i am in process of interviewing several imams for the next issue of The Revival.... (can anyone give me contact od shaykh ahmad ali and shaykh riyad ul haq)
....and will interview a mosque committe for the following issue....
i have to say i am disappointed with Med's mentality and views... its what i meant before by mosque and imam worship! any comments and suggestions about mosques and they starts to panic an dsay its 'disrespectful':-) what he thinks is adab is what most people see as out of date, old fashion, conservative, not in touch, too emotional, narrow minded, not open to suggestions etc....i'm glad Shazan is more in touch with reality...
as Admin says the body can be and I say should be Muslim....
why is it so hard to understand that a Muslim body that makes sure that mosques are doing a good job can only be a benefit for the Muslim community!!! It's not rocket science!
Mawlana Riyadh ul Haq Sahib can be contacted via alkawtharacademy.org website.
Mawlana Ahmad Ali Sahib has Al Ma'hadul Islami, Bradford but I dont know if he has a website for this.
I have to agree with you Ed. This revolting practice of imam worship and mosque worship is disgusting - make dua that ALLAH save me from all forms of shirk, particularly this disease of imam-worship which has infected many among mankind.
Its not about changes - its about respect. Some peoples ideas of reform are to leave the deen and follow the ways of alien nations - some peoples ideas of reform are to return to the ways of the Salaf us Salih - time will tell who is upon guidance.
But an interesting point is that those who remained with the orthodox way have today alhamdulillah produced thousands of british born huffaadh and hundreds of british born ulama. Those who brought in crazy new fangled ideas have fancy mosques with chandeliers and marble decor but a shame that they dont have many huffaaz and virtually no islamic education system apart from the evening maktab.
Tawbah Tawbah. May ALLAH save us - ameen.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
thanxs for the contact info....
we aint gonna agree on this issue...
no one is saying to go away from the orthodox....
at the same time, as time changes, needs change, method changes...but message is same.
just having thousands of hufaaz is not the need of the time my friend....
its having young english speaking scholars who understand the issue of the day
its catering for EVERY need of the society
its to make sure muslim youth turn to the masjid for their education, entertainment, problems and activities....
nobody is saying to have a fancy dome, carpet or chandelier....
i am saying to have library, internet facility, gym, social activities, media team, political team, social workers, study circles, alim course, fun days, special women facilities, mosque website, football league via the mosques, debate shows, nasheed programmes, muslim comedy, islamic cinema, muslim publications, drug rehabilitation sessions etc etc etc...ALL THROUGH THE MASJID.....
anyway thats how i see it....
Oh Med. :roll:
Oh Beast :twisted:
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Hold up, so you think over-decorating of mosques is wrong? Haraam Sharif and Madina both are decorated with gold, that would be considered "over-decorating" so in your opinion that too would be considered wrong?
What's wrong with beautyfing a mosque?
A mosque is not only a place of worship but it is a great way of getting the youth involved and for people to learn about Islam and to take part in discussions and meet people who they can discuss then with which means you have to have a place which apeals to the youth. So it is a must to have a person who can talk in their language.
The issue isnt about decorating mosques on its own. Its about decorating mosques at the expense of educating the community.
Some mosques are built soo beautifully and their namazees are only the elders - no talabah, no huffaaz and no british born ulama. Thats what I object to.
There are some masaajid and madaaris in our city which have basic wudhu facilities, basic kitchen facilities etc and literally hundreds of huffaaz have graduated from there and tens of ulama. That mosque is successful.
And yes producing hundreds of huffaaz is a success - those kids wudda been out doing ALLAH alone knows on the streets but the Asaatizah make the Carriers of the Quran - ne1 who does not value them and honour them is an ignorant.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
it seems to me that Med isn't exactly disagreeing with the rest of you on this one:
so you agree that some mosques [i]may[/i] need changes, but that the suggestions for improvement should come from fellow muslims and not in a disrespectful manner, yes?
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
yse for definite some mosques may need changes - I was speaking from my personal experience. The masaajid I frequent are mashaALLAH bastions of light in an ocean of darkness (
) but those where kids are abused - I say vigilante action against such perverts is not unjust - simple.
And as for changes - they should be from the community, from the ulama and the pious elders and the pious amongst the youth - not from random zayd and bakr who never show their faces in the masjid save on jumu'ah.
And above all else respect is paramount. Ba-adab ba-naseeb, be-adab be-naseeb. If a person loses respect he is doomed. And the ulama should be respected at all costs as well as the sanctity of the masaajid.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Its not even about needing or demanding changes. Just monitoring quality of service. Knowing what is working, and what is not.
The methods are open to what can be done, and what is available. But it must be objective and impartial.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I think the the tablighis have a nice policy in place which should be adopted by a lot of mosques.
The concept of Khidmat (service) is quite important for all of us. The markaz in West Ham alternates on which mosque should bear the responsibility of providing khidmat for a particular week.
So things like Wudu Facilities, Hoovering, Catering, agriculture, security are shared out. All brothers should all be involved in khidmat of our local mosques. There is great reward in this work.
On a weekend for example, rather than sleeping in, just get up early walk down to the Masjid, roll up your sleeves and scrub the wudu area, hoover the carpet, clean the toilets.
All this talk of a Mosque Inspections.. having organisations like OFSTED.. please, I've worked with OFSTED and let me tell you, inspections are not cheap. Putting such organisations together are not cheap.
Getting the Mosque to pay a membership is wrong, getting the tax payer to cough up for the bill is also wrong..
Its simple.. me, you and whoever we can get hold of should do what we can to ensure the cleanliness, safety of our mosques. I mean no Imam or committee gonna stop u from cleaning the toilets, or wudhu kana or hoovering.
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
But will they stop inspections of teaching manners, professionalism etc?
Its just an oidea I had, and still think tis a good idea to make sure things are upto scratch..
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
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