[size=18]UK's alliance with US puts it 'at risk'[/size]
[size=12]
Britain's close alliance with the United States has put it at particular risk of terrorist attacks, two leading think-tanks say.
The continuing debate about the wisdom of Britain's military commitments has intensified after the bombings of three London underground trains and a bus on 7 July which killed 55 people, including the four bombers, and injured some 700 others.
The Royal Institute of International Affairs and the Economic and Social Research Council said the situation in Iraq had given "a boost to the al-Qaida network's propaganda, recruitment and fund-raising" and provided an ideal training ground for al-Qaida-linked terrorists. [/size]
I have spent time arguing the case for understanding, inclusion and honest conversation. I have in the last few days made my point to Orthodox Christians as well as British Jews and Israelis. To Italians near where I ususally work, in Bloomsbury. To a BNP sympathiser last Thursday making his garbled case to rescue'white culture' (in person last Thursday, not just here). To social workers, artists, professionals. I have been in contact with peacemaking organisations I know here and abroad, whose efforts I massively respect. However, recent comments to this thread and others lead me to doubt myself. We may yet have a monumental clash coming. Good luck. :x
interesting discussion on suicide attacks in London and abroad...
your views pls...
[b]Transcript: John Ware on Muslim Council of Britain [/b]
[b]All but a tiny fringe of Muslim organisations in the UK have condemned the London suicide bombings. But are those organisations condemning in London what they are failing to condemn abroad? Panorama reporter John Ware is examining the role of the country's main Muslim organisation, the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB). [/b]
Here is a transcript of an interview with Mr Ware on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, followed by a response from the Muslim Council of Britain:
Carolyn Quinn: John first, the Muslim Council of Britain's Secretary General is Sir Iqbal Sacranie. He has condemned the London suicide bombings in forthright terms, hasn't he?
John Ware: Yes he has. He says that 'Islam can never justify evil actions of bombers' and he has urged everyone to 'look to our shared values and common humanity,' as he puts it.
Quinn: Two years ago, there were two British suicide bombers, like the London bombers both of Pakistani origin. They went to Tel Aviv to blow up Mike's Bar. Three people were killed. What did Sir Iqbal say then?
Ware: Well, on this occasion, he said that the loss of civilian life, and he mentioned both Palestinian and Israelis, couldn't be condoned. The Islamist group Hamas claimed the bombing. Their founder Sheikh Yassin was later assassinated by the Israelis. Now, what happened then was that, a year or so later, several Muslim organisations here in London held a memorial service for Sheik Yassin at the Central Mosque in Regents Park, and Sir Iqbal chose to attend the service and organisation, the MCB described Sheikh Yassin as "the renowned Islamic scholar."
Quinn: But doesn't Hamas have a political wing?
Ware: It does, although the Israeli government would say that Hamas's political and military agenda was set by Sheikh Yassin. Certainly he was the chief ideologist of an organisation whose charter seeks the destruction of Israel. And Hamas has conducted a fair number of the 160 or so suicide bombing attacks since the second intifada, which have killed over 500 people in total - again many of them civilians just as in London.
Quinn: One senior theologian whose Fatwas have been used to provide justification for suicide bombings directed at Israeli civilians is Dr Yusuf Qaradawi - the man who the mayor of London, Ken Livingstone, welcomed to City Hall last year and described as "moderate".
Ware: Well, although Dr Qaradawi has condemned the London suicide bombings unequivocally here when it comes to Israel he says - and I'm quoting here an interview he gave: "We must all realise that the Israeli society is a military society - men and women. We cannot describe the society as civilian...they are not civilians or innocent".
He's also supported the use of child suicide bombers. During a TV debate in the Gulf - according to BBC monitoring - he said: "The Israelis might have nuclear bombs but we have the children bomb and these human bombs must continue until liberation".
Quinn: What's the Muslim Council of Britain had to say about Dr Qaradawi?
Ware: Like the Hamas leader Sheikh Yassin, the Muslim Council of Britain has also described Dr Qaradawi in fairly flattering terms. They've said he's " a distinguished Muslim scholar...a voice of reason and understanding."
Quinn: What's his position been on Iraq?
Ware: Dr Qaradawi's position on Iraq has supported the resistance which he has described as " valiant". I'm quoting here from the Lebanese National News agency website, where he is reported to have said "We call for material, military and human support ...the Muslims want the scholars to show the Arab and Muslim person's duty is towards this cause." So this, I guess, would imply support for attacks on British soldiers as well as American obviously.
Quinn: One of the Muslim Council's main affiliates is the Muslim Association of Britain which also claims to speak for Muslims here. What have they said about suicide bombings in Israel and Iraq?
Ware: A senior member of the MAB, the Muslim Association of Britain, Dr Azzam Tamimi, has said he supports suicide bombings in Israel. I should stress Dr Tamimi has condemned unequivocally the London bombings but he says that if he got the chance in Israel "I would sacrifice myself it's the straight way to pleasing my God".
Quinn: What has the government said about suicide bombings in Israel?
Ware: The government's position is clear cut: targeting civilians wherever they are is terrorism and Mr Blair has said so in terms. "We want nothing to do with people who support suicide bombers in Palestine or anywhere elsewhere" he has said.
[b]Here is the response from Muslim Council of Britain spokesman Inayat Bunglawala. [/b]
Carolyn Quinn: Do you have any thoughts about the rather serious charges John Ware is making, alleging the Muslim Council of Britain never expressly condemns all suicide bombings.
Inayat Bunglawala: Well let me make clear then, once and for all, we condemn the killing of all innocent people, wherever they are. Human lives everywhere are of equal value, whether they are British, American, Iraqi or Palestinian. Jewish lives are not worth more than Palestinian lives. All are worth equal and it's been quite nauseating over the past week to see how Israel and its highly-placed supporters in the media have been trying to make political capital out of last week's atrocities against Londoners. It is shameful on them and shameful on those who are trying to help Israel improve its PR image after the brutalities it commits against the Palestinian people.
Quinn: This is now your chance to answer those charges, whether you failed to condemn in the Middle East what you have now condemned in London.
Bunglawala: We always condemn the taking of innocent life anywhere. But can I just make it clear here, it's quite misleading to compare the situation here in the UK with that in Israel. The 1.6 million Muslims in the UK live in peace. They are free to practice their faith and they are free to go about their daily lives without let or hindrance. The Palestinians, by contrast, live under a very brutal occupation, a very repressive Israeli military occupation, seeing their land every day being gobbled up by illegal Jewish settlements.
Quinn: But that still can't be justification for suicide bombing.
Bunglawala: No it cannot. But many of our own columnists, even members of parliament, have said that if they were Palestinians, if they were living under those conditions, if they were seeing their children humiliated in the way the Israelis humiliate their children, if they saw their children being blown to pieces, they would consider doing what the Palestinians do. Our own parliamentarians have said that. If they can say that, then of course Muslims will feel a greater affinity for the Palestinians.
Quinn: But you are now saying you must not, you should not, do that. That the Koran does not say that that's an acceptable practice.
Bunglawala: Absolutely. The Koran says you cannot take innocent life. But, again, to explain is not to justify. When we try and explain why the Palestinians are being driven to what they are doing it is not to justify it. It's trying to explain why they are doing what they are doing. Even our own parliamentarians have tried to do the same.
Quinn: Ok. Two other very brief points. Sheikh Yassin, the support that Sir Iqbal Sacranie has mentioned for him, as John Ware was saying, was that misguided?
Bunglawala: No it was not. Sheikh Ahmed Yassin is an Islamic scholar, was an Islamic scholar, was renowned throughout the Muslim world as an Islamic scholar and the Israelis assassinated him. Let's remember that. The Israelis broke international law. He was a quadriplegic man, a disabled man. He was coming out of the morning prayers and the Israelis sent F-16 fighter planes and they blew him up.
Quinn: He was the chief ideas man behind an organisation whose charter seeks the destruction of Israel.
Bunglawala: Well, just wait, if Israel claims to be a democracy, which it does at every opportunity, then it should bring people to justice by the courts of law, not blow them up by missiles.
Quinn: Ok, and the other person mentioned, a senior member of the Muslim Association of Britain, Dr Azzam Tamimi, whose said he supports suicide bombings in Israel. Now that group is one of your main affiliates.
Bunglawala: Well, the Muslim Council of Britain has over 400 affiliates.
Quinn (interrupting): So what do you say to them?
Bunglawala: There is a whole range of Muslim organisations. If he makes that comment he should answer for that.
Quinn: Well can't you cut him off?
Bunglawala: Well, Dr Azzam himself is a Palestinian. I can understand why he feels such pain for the Palestinians and why he can understand why others are driven to what they are doing. Dr Azzam Tamimi again, is respected. If our own parliamentarians can say they can understand why Palestinians are doing this, of course other Palestinians themselves will express similar feelings.
Quinn: But if your message now is one of solidarity here in Britain and that you are condemning suicide bombings across the world, then wouldn't a strong message be to cut off affiliation with people like that, to say you no longer can be regarded as one of us.
Bunglawala: No, then we would have to throw out our own members of parliament. I think what Dr Azzam is doing is trying to explain...
Quinn (interrupting): What do you mean? They've all been...are you talking about the members of parliament here?
Bunglawala: Yes, they've said they could understand. I mean, we have had Jenny Tonge, a senior member of the Liberal Democrats, Cherie Blair, the prime minister's wife, explaining why she could understand why the Palestinians are doing what they are doing. So this is not to justify...
Quinn: It is not condoning...
Bunglawala: It is not condoning. No, it's not condoning. It's trying to explain why they do what they do.
I have spent time arguing the case for understanding, inclusion and honest conversation. I have in the last few days made my point to Orthodox Christians as well as British Jews and Israelis. To Italians near where I ususally work, in Bloomsbury. To a BNP sympathiser last Thursday making his garbled case to rescue'white culture' (in person last Thursday, not just here). To social workers, artists, professionals. I have been in contact with peacemaking organisations I know here and abroad, whose efforts I massively respect. However, recent comments to this thread and others lead me to doubt myself. We may yet have a monumental clash coming. Good luck. :x
100. Your call for understanding, inclusion and honest conversation are commendable. I don't think there is anyone here who would challenge you on that.
I may have said some things which you found dissagreeable, but we all have our own opinions. We have to recognise that we sometimes don't see eye to eye. However, that shouldn't prevent compromise.
[b]Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair visits Minhaj-ul-Quran London[/b]
British Muslim youngsters and Minhaj-ul-Quran (MQI) leaders welcomed the visit of Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair to the mosque of Minhaj-ul-Quran International on Friday the 15th July. The close door meeting with Sir Ian Blair took place before the public address in which the MQI leaders discussed issues related to the security of the Muslims and the actual teachings of Islam.
Speaking at a the Minhaj-ul-Quran Mosque in Forest Gate, East London, Sir Ian Blair appealed to worshippers: "I need you". "We have got nearly 1m Muslims in London, 1.6 in the UK," he said. "We've only got 300 Muslim police officers in London - that's not good enough. I need your mothers, fathers, sons and daughters." "We must seize this moment, this weekend, next week. "We have to seize a moment in which the Muslim community in Britain changes from your position of shock and disbelief into active engagement in counter-terrorism."
The Media Secretary of MQI, Mr Shahid Mursaleen explained to Sir Ian Blair "that the positive and the moderate image of Islam has to be presented in the mainstream media so that the overall situation of extremism changes effectively". He asserted that "Minhaj-ul-Quran International has been working in this regard for many years and will continue to do so, and would appreciate support from government officials".
Furthermore, the issue regarding to the involvement of the young Muslims was thoroughly discussed that the young British Muslims have to be taught a balanced view of their faith by all the mosques and Imams throughout the country. As a result, the extreme elements, which still exist in the community, shall not get any chance to 'hijack' the young immature Muslims and make terrorist out of them.
Mr Basharat Aziz, President of Minhaj-ul-Quran London informed Sir Ian Blair "that MQI is playing a vital role in bringing youngsters away from extremism for quite a long time by teaching them the true image and balanced view of Islam". Sir Ian Blair and the public can be assured that MQI will fully support the authorities to restore peace in society; however, the scary impression shall not be given to the public that the mosques are clients of the police. Sir Ian Blair was also informed that there is a great level of fear within the Muslim society regarding the counter attacks from racists in the UK; he was urged to increase the level of security for the minorities.
The active youth cell of MQI, the Muslim Youth League (MYL) will play an active role in eradicating extremism from the streets of UK, the Youth Development Co-ordinator Shaykh Ramzan Qadri said in the meeting with the Muslim youth and MQI's officials. Shaykh Ramzan Qadri holds regular Youth classes across the country to educate youngsters about their faith. The Muslim Youth League of Minhaj-ul-Quran will play a key role in spreading the moderate and balanced view of Islam. This is one of the methods, which MQI will adopt in assisting the British Government in the fight against extremism.
In addition:
This was one of the first ever events in Minhaj-ul-Quran's history that it was broadcasted Live on the British and International TV channels such as Sky news, BBC News 24, ITV news and also CNN. However, the pictures were shown all day on all the national TV channels of Sir Ian Blairs visit to MQI centre. The official people from MQI who gave interviews were. Shahid Mursaleen gave TV interview to BBC News 24, which was telecasted LIVE on BBC News 24, in which Minhaj-ul-Quran was refered to as one of the first organisations to condemn these attacks in London. Minhaj-ul-Quran London President Mr Basharat Aziz gave a lengthy interview to Channel 4 and ITV and The Times Newspaper. Shaykh Ramzan Qadri also gave interviews to various papers.
[i]Speaking at the family home in Beeston, Leeds, he said: "The family is shattered. This is a terrible thing."
Mr Ahmed said it was hard for the family to accept their son had caused such loss of life, adding: "It wasn't him. It must have been forces behind him."
He said the 22-year-old was "a very kind and calm person. He was respected by everyone."[/i]
[i]All four men had paid their parking tickets before boarding a train at Luton, 40km north of London, for King's Cross station and had all bought return tickets to the capital.
"We do not have hard evidence that the men were suicide bombers," a Scotland Yard spokesman told the Sunday Telegraph newspaper.[/i]
[size=18]Dr Imran Waheed is the media representative of Hizb ut-Tahrir Britain[/size]
To hold the Muslim community entirely responsible for the actions of a few is highly irresponsible and will do little for community relations.
This attitude will only alienate Muslims from the wider society and reinforce the perception that Britain is a divided society. What is required is for the whole society to accept responsibility for 7/7.
It is time to do away with the tired labels of 'extremist' and 'moderate'; even people who hold dissimilar and disparate views can engage in dialogue.
The British government needs to re-examine its policy of interference in the Muslim world, which started well before the Iraq war.
The contradiction of espousing democratic values at home while supporting dictatorships throughout the Muslim world sits uncomfortably with many Muslims living Britain.
This feeling has been further accentuated by the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as Britain's support for America's war against terror, which opinion polls suggest Muslims widely perceive to be a war against Islam.
The British media also has an important role to play. The media needs to stop demonising Muslims and fanning the flames of Islamophobia.
The media has to become more objective in its presentation of Islam and the Muslim community.
Since the events of 9/11 we have seen the gradual depoliticisation of our mosques and centres of learning - during the Iraq war few Imams discussed the real extent of civilian casualties and fewer still channelled the anger and frustration of the Muslim community into Islamic political activism.
This state of affairs cannot continue; our younger generation need to see that our mosques are open forums for discussing local, national and international issues.
The Muslim community for its part needs to do much more, not only to confront those who seek to perpetrate such acts, but also to open up their mosques, community centres and houses to the wider society, including non-Muslims.
We have to be proactive as a community in working to dispel the many myths that exist about Islam.
Every Muslim needs to consider themselves to be an ambassador of Islam for the wider of society.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
HT are trying make themselves 'acceptable' by playing down their extremist tendencies and speaking 'moderately'. Esp. now that the gov might go a bit repressive on their ass.
It's like the BNP wearing suits and having good hairstyles instead of t-shirts and bold heads just to give the appearence of a 'normal' political party.
HT are trying make themselves 'acceptable' by playing down their extremist tendencies and speaking 'moderately'. Esp. now that the gov might go a bit repressive on their ass.
It's like the BNP wearing suits and having good hairstyles instead of t-shirts and bold heads just to give the appearence of a 'normal' political party.
Decades of British and American intervention in the oil-rich Middle East motivated the London bombers, Ken Livingstone has suggested.
The London mayor told BBC News he had no sympathy with the bombers and he opposed all violence.
But he argued that the attacks would not have happened had Western powers left Arab nations free to decide their own affairs after World War I.
Instead, they had often supported unsavoury governments in the region.
Mr Livingstone was asked on BBC Radio 4's Today programme what he thought had motivated the bombers.
He replied: "I think you've just had 80 years of western intervention into predominantly Arab lands because of the western need for oil.
"We've propped up unsavoury governments, we've overthrown ones we didn't consider sympathetic.
"And I think the particular problem we have at the moment is that in the 1980s... the Americans recruited and trained Osama Bin Laden, taught him how to kill, to make bombs, and set him off to kill the Russians and drive them out of Afghanistan.
"They didn't give any thought to the fact that once he'd done that he might turn on his creators."
[b]No justice? [/b]
Mr Livingstone said Western governments had been so terrified of losing their fuel supplies that they had kept intervening in the Middle East.
He argued: "If at the end of the First World War we had done what we promised the Arabs, which was to let them be free and have their own governments, and kept out of Arab affairs, and just bought their oil, rather than feeling we had to control the flow of oil, I suspect this wouldn't have arisen."
He attacked double standards by Western nations, such as the initial welcome given when Saddam Hussein came to power in Iraq.
There was also the "running sore" of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict.
"A lot of young people see the double standards, they see what happens in Guantanamo Bay, and they just think that there isn't a just foreign policy," said Mr Livingstone.
[b]Suicide bombers [/b]
Mr Livingstone said he did not just denounce suicide bombers.
He also denounced "those governments which use indiscriminate slaughter to advance their foreign policy, as we have occasionally seen with the Israeli government bombing areas from which a terrorist group will have come, irrespective of the casualties it inflicts, women, children and men".
He continued: "Under foreign occupation and denied the right to vote, denied the right to run your own affairs, often denied the right to work for three generations, I suspect that if it had happened here in England, we would have produced a lot of suicide bombers ourselves."
Mr Livingstone also criticised parts of the media for giving too much publicity to certain figures who were "totally unrepresentative" of British Muslims.
HT are trying make themselves 'acceptable' by playing down their extremist tendencies and speaking 'moderately'. Esp. now that the gov might go a bit repressive on their ass.
It's like the BNP wearing suits and having good hairstyles instead of t-shirts and bold heads just to give the appearence of a 'normal' political party.
In the HT statement after the attacks they didn't say anythin like, 'we condemn the London bombings', just as every other Muslim organisation did. They said something like 'we condemn the killings of innocents' with no specific reference to the London attacks.
Dummy explosions using detonators only have sparked the evacuation of three Tube stations and the closure of three lines, a BBC correspondent has said.
Police cordoned off large areas around Warren Street, Oval and Shepherd's Bush Tube stations.
i work in warrent st.. whole area blocked off.
took some pics through window, not wort posting as just buch of police cars and fireengines.
—
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
the police made one arrest near downing street...someone caught it on camera...but they not giving us more info about who the guy is n why hes been arrested... :?
this all seems dodgy 2 me...if it was people who were linked 2 the 7/7 attacks then why didnt they just use the same level of explosives? these were smaller explosions right?
i heard that they "broke" down a mosque in leeds
I see.
Thought you meant something else.
like what?
You said mosques are being 'removed'. I thought you meant being lifted off their foundations and placed elsewhere. :?
It's silly, I know. But I just needed clarification.
lol lifted and moved to where exactly, irfan irfan.. :roll:
I don't know. Like I said it's silly.
Don't prolong my indignity. :oops:
oh its so temptin but since i am such a nice person i will let it go..
As if proof were needed:
[url=http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/09ACF638-8FF5-4120-93F3-2A6A21C02...
I have spent time arguing the case for understanding, inclusion and honest conversation. I have in the last few days made my point to Orthodox Christians as well as British Jews and Israelis. To Italians near where I ususally work, in Bloomsbury. To a BNP sympathiser last Thursday making his garbled case to rescue'white culture' (in person last Thursday, not just here). To social workers, artists, professionals. I have been in contact with peacemaking organisations I know here and abroad, whose efforts I massively respect. However, recent comments to this thread and others lead me to doubt myself. We may yet have a monumental clash coming. Good luck. :x
salaam
interesting discussion on suicide attacks in London and abroad...
your views pls...
[b]Transcript: John Ware on Muslim Council of Britain [/b]
[b]All but a tiny fringe of Muslim organisations in the UK have condemned the London suicide bombings. But are those organisations condemning in London what they are failing to condemn abroad? Panorama reporter John Ware is examining the role of the country's main Muslim organisation, the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB). [/b]
Here is a transcript of an interview with Mr Ware on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, followed by a response from the Muslim Council of Britain:
Carolyn Quinn: John first, the Muslim Council of Britain's Secretary General is Sir Iqbal Sacranie. He has condemned the London suicide bombings in forthright terms, hasn't he?
John Ware: Yes he has. He says that 'Islam can never justify evil actions of bombers' and he has urged everyone to 'look to our shared values and common humanity,' as he puts it.
Quinn: Two years ago, there were two British suicide bombers, like the London bombers both of Pakistani origin. They went to Tel Aviv to blow up Mike's Bar. Three people were killed. What did Sir Iqbal say then?
Ware: Well, on this occasion, he said that the loss of civilian life, and he mentioned both Palestinian and Israelis, couldn't be condoned. The Islamist group Hamas claimed the bombing. Their founder Sheikh Yassin was later assassinated by the Israelis. Now, what happened then was that, a year or so later, several Muslim organisations here in London held a memorial service for Sheik Yassin at the Central Mosque in Regents Park, and Sir Iqbal chose to attend the service and organisation, the MCB described Sheikh Yassin as "the renowned Islamic scholar."
Quinn: But doesn't Hamas have a political wing?
Ware: It does, although the Israeli government would say that Hamas's political and military agenda was set by Sheikh Yassin. Certainly he was the chief ideologist of an organisation whose charter seeks the destruction of Israel. And Hamas has conducted a fair number of the 160 or so suicide bombing attacks since the second intifada, which have killed over 500 people in total - again many of them civilians just as in London.
Quinn: One senior theologian whose Fatwas have been used to provide justification for suicide bombings directed at Israeli civilians is Dr Yusuf Qaradawi - the man who the mayor of London, Ken Livingstone, welcomed to City Hall last year and described as "moderate".
Ware: Well, although Dr Qaradawi has condemned the London suicide bombings unequivocally here when it comes to Israel he says - and I'm quoting here an interview he gave: "We must all realise that the Israeli society is a military society - men and women. We cannot describe the society as civilian...they are not civilians or innocent".
He's also supported the use of child suicide bombers. During a TV debate in the Gulf - according to BBC monitoring - he said: "The Israelis might have nuclear bombs but we have the children bomb and these human bombs must continue until liberation".
Quinn: What's the Muslim Council of Britain had to say about Dr Qaradawi?
Ware: Like the Hamas leader Sheikh Yassin, the Muslim Council of Britain has also described Dr Qaradawi in fairly flattering terms. They've said he's " a distinguished Muslim scholar...a voice of reason and understanding."
Quinn: What's his position been on Iraq?
Ware: Dr Qaradawi's position on Iraq has supported the resistance which he has described as " valiant". I'm quoting here from the Lebanese National News agency website, where he is reported to have said "We call for material, military and human support ...the Muslims want the scholars to show the Arab and Muslim person's duty is towards this cause." So this, I guess, would imply support for attacks on British soldiers as well as American obviously.
Quinn: One of the Muslim Council's main affiliates is the Muslim Association of Britain which also claims to speak for Muslims here. What have they said about suicide bombings in Israel and Iraq?
Ware: A senior member of the MAB, the Muslim Association of Britain, Dr Azzam Tamimi, has said he supports suicide bombings in Israel. I should stress Dr Tamimi has condemned unequivocally the London bombings but he says that if he got the chance in Israel "I would sacrifice myself it's the straight way to pleasing my God".
Quinn: What has the government said about suicide bombings in Israel?
Ware: The government's position is clear cut: targeting civilians wherever they are is terrorism and Mr Blair has said so in terms. "We want nothing to do with people who support suicide bombers in Palestine or anywhere elsewhere" he has said.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[b]Here is the response from Muslim Council of Britain spokesman Inayat Bunglawala. [/b]
Carolyn Quinn: Do you have any thoughts about the rather serious charges John Ware is making, alleging the Muslim Council of Britain never expressly condemns all suicide bombings.
Inayat Bunglawala: Well let me make clear then, once and for all, we condemn the killing of all innocent people, wherever they are. Human lives everywhere are of equal value, whether they are British, American, Iraqi or Palestinian. Jewish lives are not worth more than Palestinian lives. All are worth equal and it's been quite nauseating over the past week to see how Israel and its highly-placed supporters in the media have been trying to make political capital out of last week's atrocities against Londoners. It is shameful on them and shameful on those who are trying to help Israel improve its PR image after the brutalities it commits against the Palestinian people.
Quinn: This is now your chance to answer those charges, whether you failed to condemn in the Middle East what you have now condemned in London.
Bunglawala: We always condemn the taking of innocent life anywhere. But can I just make it clear here, it's quite misleading to compare the situation here in the UK with that in Israel. The 1.6 million Muslims in the UK live in peace. They are free to practice their faith and they are free to go about their daily lives without let or hindrance. The Palestinians, by contrast, live under a very brutal occupation, a very repressive Israeli military occupation, seeing their land every day being gobbled up by illegal Jewish settlements.
Quinn: But that still can't be justification for suicide bombing.
Bunglawala: No it cannot. But many of our own columnists, even members of parliament, have said that if they were Palestinians, if they were living under those conditions, if they were seeing their children humiliated in the way the Israelis humiliate their children, if they saw their children being blown to pieces, they would consider doing what the Palestinians do. Our own parliamentarians have said that. If they can say that, then of course Muslims will feel a greater affinity for the Palestinians.
Quinn: But you are now saying you must not, you should not, do that. That the Koran does not say that that's an acceptable practice.
Bunglawala: Absolutely. The Koran says you cannot take innocent life. But, again, to explain is not to justify. When we try and explain why the Palestinians are being driven to what they are doing it is not to justify it. It's trying to explain why they are doing what they are doing. Even our own parliamentarians have tried to do the same.
Quinn: Ok. Two other very brief points. Sheikh Yassin, the support that Sir Iqbal Sacranie has mentioned for him, as John Ware was saying, was that misguided?
Bunglawala: No it was not. Sheikh Ahmed Yassin is an Islamic scholar, was an Islamic scholar, was renowned throughout the Muslim world as an Islamic scholar and the Israelis assassinated him. Let's remember that. The Israelis broke international law. He was a quadriplegic man, a disabled man. He was coming out of the morning prayers and the Israelis sent F-16 fighter planes and they blew him up.
Quinn: He was the chief ideas man behind an organisation whose charter seeks the destruction of Israel.
Bunglawala: Well, just wait, if Israel claims to be a democracy, which it does at every opportunity, then it should bring people to justice by the courts of law, not blow them up by missiles.
Quinn: Ok, and the other person mentioned, a senior member of the Muslim Association of Britain, Dr Azzam Tamimi, whose said he supports suicide bombings in Israel. Now that group is one of your main affiliates.
Bunglawala: Well, the Muslim Council of Britain has over 400 affiliates.
Quinn (interrupting): So what do you say to them?
Bunglawala: There is a whole range of Muslim organisations. If he makes that comment he should answer for that.
Quinn: Well can't you cut him off?
Bunglawala: Well, Dr Azzam himself is a Palestinian. I can understand why he feels such pain for the Palestinians and why he can understand why others are driven to what they are doing. Dr Azzam Tamimi again, is respected. If our own parliamentarians can say they can understand why Palestinians are doing this, of course other Palestinians themselves will express similar feelings.
Quinn: But if your message now is one of solidarity here in Britain and that you are condemning suicide bombings across the world, then wouldn't a strong message be to cut off affiliation with people like that, to say you no longer can be regarded as one of us.
Bunglawala: No, then we would have to throw out our own members of parliament. I think what Dr Azzam is doing is trying to explain...
Quinn (interrupting): What do you mean? They've all been...are you talking about the members of parliament here?
Bunglawala: Yes, they've said they could understand. I mean, we have had Jenny Tonge, a senior member of the Liberal Democrats, Cherie Blair, the prime minister's wife, explaining why she could understand why the Palestinians are doing what they are doing. So this is not to justify...
Quinn: It is not condoning...
Bunglawala: It is not condoning. No, it's not condoning. It's trying to explain why they do what they do.
monumental clash.. lol
the only people Muslims will have a clash with are the fascists..
now if you choose to join the fascists, you will meet your ultimate fate..
100, it aint an 'Islam vs the rest of the world', its never been, and it never will be..
dream on.
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
100. Your call for understanding, inclusion and honest conversation are commendable. I don't think there is anyone here who would challenge you on that.
I may have said some things which you found dissagreeable, but we all have our own opinions. We have to recognise that we sometimes don't see eye to eye. However, that shouldn't prevent compromise.
to read full report visit link
[url]http://www.minhaj.org/home/news/index.minhaj?dir=news&id=128&e=112176174...
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13386392,00.html
Australian media..
http://canberra.yourguide.com.au/detail.asp?story_id=409269&class=news
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,15961272%255E6...
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
Just something I found odd:
[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4693845.stm]BBC News[/url]
A rational view from an irrational party?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
'Rational' view from an irrational party.
HT are trying make themselves 'acceptable' by playing down their extremist tendencies and speaking 'moderately'. Esp. now that the gov might go a bit repressive on their ass.
It's like the BNP wearing suits and having good hairstyles instead of t-shirts and bold heads just to give the appearence of a 'normal' political party.
hypocrites :evil:
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4698963.stm[/url]
dont cuss them
even [url=http://www.mpacuk.org/content/view/4/822/103/]MPAC[/url] are sticking up for them these days
however extreme HT are-I'm sure they dont advocate the bombing
I'm not cussing.
MPAC are right to defend HT, because some measures that may be taken against HT by the gov will set undesired precedents.
my point is-
the statement posted by Mr Admin is correct
they dont advocate the bombing
they aint trying to "play down their extremist tendencies"
They condemn the attacks. But not in the clear terms that other Muslims groups do.
what do they say about it?
aint they saying the same thing that MPAC are?-stressing the need to look at foreign policy?
In the HT statement after the attacks they didn't say anythin like, 'we condemn the London bombings', just as every other Muslim organisation did. They said something like 'we condemn the killings of innocents' with no specific reference to the London attacks.
Boy are they sly
they pulled a AbusSalam trick
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4703777.stm
i work in warrent st.. whole area blocked off.
took some pics through window, not wort posting as just buch of police cars and fireengines.
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
Tube cleared after small blasts
A number of Tube stations have been evacuated and lines closed after three blasts in what Met Police chief Sir Ian Blair says is a "serious incident".
Sir Ian appealed to Londoners to stay where they were and said the transport system was effectively being shut down.
The minor explosions used detonators only, a BBC reporter said.
In addition, a Number 26 bus in Hackney Road in Bethnal Green had its windows blown out by a blast. There were no injuries.
Large areas around Warren Street, Oval and the Shepherd's Bush Hammersmith and City line Tube stations have been cordoned off.
One person was injured at Warren Street. There were reports the injured person may have been holding a rucksack containing the detonator.
[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4703777.stm]BBC News[/url]
One casuallty reported....confusion, panic and roads blocked off....police and fire engines all over the place.....phone lines keep on cutting off.
I don't get it..... either the bombs didnt go off properly or dummy bombs were used.
For all the ”Intelligence” they speak about…why on Earth don’t they see these things coming?
This happened only two weeks to the day, in near enough the same place and even day.....
Politician in Iran reckons British Govt to blame for London Bombings.
[url=http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/britainattacksiran;_ylt=Aha4auf_GM6q5wPMB2Bj...
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
Londons a very dangerous place to be living in
dad said we cant go central anymore
I didnt beleive that the same thing could happen in near enough the same place again-so soon
I wont be going central again for a LONG time
i hope evrything calms down soon-and no more ppl get hurt
the police made one arrest near downing street...someone caught it on camera...but they not giving us more info about who the guy is n why hes been arrested... :?
this all seems dodgy 2 me...if it was people who were linked 2 the 7/7 attacks then why didnt they just use the same level of explosives? these were smaller explosions right?
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