I am so ashamed of calling myself a Pakistni
we have such a bad reputation in the world now for being ignorant and voilent people
they should be absolutely disgusted at themselves they really should
if you want to make a bloody point about something, why not do it in the right way, go to the media, tell your local representatives?
why kill innocent people
what the hell did the sri lankan cricket team do to deserve that?

Pathetic.

Such actions are taken by selfish people who are only looking to do damage.

In the end as a country Pakistan looses out, as does its people who will be seen as barbaric.

Maybe this will wake some of the people up? Personally, I doubt it.

@weds - no idea who she is, what she said but I would assume that there will be attempts to blame it on India, many people blaming them already.

Just the way things work over there.

Of course that will do the situation an injustice if it was due to internal elements (which is mostly likely the situation).

TheRevivalEditor wrote:

i cant beleive how any muslim can do that or justify it? or how any pakistani who cares for his/her country can do anything like this.

erm... I disagree. Muslims have carried out worse atrocities.

There are probably people partying out there over their "victory". Others imagining how the attacks are a blow to Israel, uncle sam, India or something. (does not matter that its unlinked - the people there are delusional. Ask them about their "victorious" wars against India. India is a "Hindu nation", while Pakistan is a Muslim nation so obviously the Muslims would win...)

As for caring for the country, the people need to be told that the British occupation ended over 60 years ago. If things don't go their way, its the norm there to break stuff up like little toddlers who have not been given their dummy.

1R4M wrote:

I am so ashamed of calling myself a Pakistni

Is that not, like, the norm?

But I do see how weird it is how pakistanis can be so proud of Pakistan, how its doing great, how its the "hope of the Muslim world" and all that other crap. The people are delusional.

I was right?

Who confirmed it?

(and I did not even need to look at things such as "facts" to get to that conclusion...)

I need to fix my digibox as watching war on the TV would be better than reading about it with mere words...

Saying that I do not think Pakistan would want a war right now. They need to acquire/manufacture a few more jets beforehand. So it could all be a ploy to get unity?

Channel? 5 live?

wednesday wrote:

Yep.. It's just been confirmed.

Pakistan is in the frame of war.

:neutral:

Having listened to the BBC News, it seems to be more "state of war" against the attackers than anything larger. No blame throwing yet. Well there has been some, but not in the international media yet.

why cricket

why did they have to attack cricket, it was the first team to vist pakistan in 14 months,damn these idiots , i see no islamic justification for such an attack ,i hope they dare not use any islamic motives , they are just mindless criminals,they have turned the whole cricket loving people of pakistan and the world agaisnt them, luckily no sri lankan players were hurt badly , but i cant see any teams coming to play in pakistan in the future,who are already starved of cricket, and they have the world cup matches taken away from them, they just killed off pakistan cricket i hope they are caught and made an example of :evil:

had it been the Indian team (which was origionally supposed to visit then backed out) it would be war right now

You wrote:

1R4M wrote:

I am so ashamed of calling myself a Pakistni

Is that not, like, the norm?

no , im not gonna let some idiots make me ashamed of my heritage and background

but i guess it is the norm for weak minded pakistanis who are pure whitewashed bountys

'the coopers' from goodness gracious me come to mind

Pakistan was not in such a mess until it decided to join the BBC (Bush & Blair Corporation)when they planned to attack afghanistan.

I note that pakistan now has a women's cricket team, is this shariah compliant? i think not. But then again, the test matches that are played, i wonder when the male cricketers read their namaaz.

The media has really took advantage of this story and really hyped to how dangerous pakistan is, woo to Rupert Murdoc's Sky and the BBC, AKA: Bush and Blair Corporation.

However none of the above could justify an attack on innocent people.

abid hussain wrote:

Pakistan was not in such a mess until it decided to join the BBC (Bush & Blair Corporation)when they planned to attack afghanistan.

I note that pakistan now has a women's cricket team, is this shariah compliant? i think not. But then again, the test matches that are played, i wonder when the male cricketers read their namaaz.

The media has really took advantage of this story and really hyped to how dangerous pakistan is, woo to Rupert Murdoc's Sky and the BBC, AKA: Bush and Blair Corporation.

However none of the above could justify an attack on innocent people.

Could you remind me about that collection on ahadith regarding cricket, please?

abid hussain wrote:

Pakistan was not in such a mess until it decided to join the BBC (Bush & Blair Corporation)when they planned to attack afghanistan.

Yes it was, but just before then, there was a small period of hope - even though there was no international cooperation with Pakistan, under the first few years of Musharraf's dictatorship, things seemed to improve as he correctly walked a tightrope. When he took over, Pakistan was considered either a failed state, or almost one. THen there wee a few good years and now its back to that same status quo.

abid hussain wrote:

I note that pakistan now has a women's cricket team, is this shariah compliant? i think not.

I am quite sure that I have read a hadith which mkentioned how the Prophet took part in races with females from the household (Ummul Mu'mineen Aisha Sideeqa (ra) I think but am not certain), so yes it would be "shariah compliant"

abid hussain wrote:

But then again, the test matches that are played, i wonder when the male cricketers read their namaaz.

It would be up to them to pray, but if they want to, there is every opportunity to do so. I am quite sure in the Pakistan team there was a heavy tablighi element, and those people would pray. They get breaks, chances for drinks, lunch, tea and all the other times where they can pray.

Either way, them praying or not should be none of your concern. Concentrate on yourself instead of others.

abid hussain wrote:

The media has really took advantage of this story and really hyped to how dangerous pakistan is, woo to Rupert Murdoc's Sky and the BBC, AKA: Bush and Blair Corporation.

However none of the above could justify an attack on innocent people.

They never really took advantage IMO as well, the headlines are pretty accurate. The attacks were dismal, but there are other such dismal attacks too which are less publicised. I read there was a car bombing today...

Its a big country and something happening in one place or other does not make the whole of it insecure and teetering on destruction, but Pakistan has big problems ahead and that reality needs to be known.

(IMO Obama is also bad for Pakistan...)

Abid does have a point. The media are hype this up to be alot more than it actually is. Ive heard claims that Pakistan is on the brink of civil war etc. Yet i know a number of people who are there at this moment in Lahore and they're going about their business like normal. They said there was only a disturbance for one or two days and after that everythings back to normal.

So i dont think we should accept out right what we are being told by the media atleast not on face value.

This one attack on its own means nothing. The fact that there are many attacks in many places as a collection show that there are problems.

As for a proper bona fide civil war, not even close. But there are problems. Big problems.

Salaam

YOU WROTE: THen there were a few good years and now its back to that same status quo.

One of the reasons for getting back to the same status quo is because of the mere fact that it had aided america in the attack against afghanistan. Now you get some of the so called moderate muslims who were for this and some muslim brothers and sisters that were against this. It is inevitable that you are going to get some people turning to violence.

My main argument was about the media hype regarding this story. You trying to say this attack on the cricketers was much worse that the recent attack on my beloved palestine? All these cricketers got out alive, it was the pakistani policemen (may allah grant them jannat) that were killed, but no one cares about them. The media made this look worse than the israeli attack on palestine.

I for one was against this attack, innocent people mass murdered solely due to the current foreign policy of this country and america. the behaviour of these governments is no better than these people carrying out these attacks in pakistan. The BBC and SKY cover up this but just love a story which belittles muslims and muslim countries. just like a tiger eyeing up its prey.
The SKY news reporters would know all the names of the few israeli soldiers killed but would not know the name of a single palestinian that was murdered. for these channels, an israeli life is much more important than a palestinian life. So how dare you have the nerve to say "the headlines are pretty accurate". they never accurate when it is regarding muslims. Please watch other news channels such as press tv, al jazeera and so on to get the full picture.

YOU WROTE: I am quite sure that I have read a hadith which mkentioned how the Prophet took part in races with females from the household (Ummul Mu'mineen Aisha Sideeqa (ra) I think but am not certain), so yes it would be "shariah compliant"

i agree with your above statement, women should be allowed to play sports. maybe you should read the hadith on how muslim women should dress, then look at the way these pakistani female cricket players are dressed. We cannot compromise with religion. these women are supposed to represent a muslim nation.

YOU WROTE: Either way, them praying or not should be none of your concern. Concentrate on yourself instead of others.

I did not know this person would get soo wound up. anyhow, masha allah i do concentrate on myself. I am not going to base my argument on maybe's like you have. but 'Maybe' you need to read the hadith on importance of reading your salah on time.

YOU WROTE: They never really took advantage IMO as well, the headlines are pretty accurate.

Of course the media takes advantage of anything negative concerning muslims. Which planet are you living on?? Hello, earth calling mars, knock knock, anyone there? lol. i'll give you a very simple example since it seems like you have a very narrow mind:

60 year old muslim man marries a 20 year old: this would result in Front page headlines stating '60 YEAR OLD MUSLIM MAN MARRIES A YOUNG 20 YEAR OLD GIRL". If it was a non-muslim, it would either not appear in the paper, but if it did, it would be a small sub section article somewhere in the middle of the newspaper, not stating his religion.

About a year ago, this little child past away in london, the authoroties stated that she starved to death. The media had to mention the fact that the mother was a MUSLIM. Now there have been many similar cases involving non-mulsims, why didn't the media state their religion??

To conclude, the problems in pakistan are due to the foriegn agenda of other nations and their own puppet government. The current problem with the indian government is not a week old you know, it has been in exisitent since the british left, now tell me pakistan created that problem.

Please don't tell me you one of those puppets who refers to themselves as a 'moderate muslim'. let me tell you something: "being a muslim is like being pregnant, your either pregnant or your not. please don't be a hypocrite.

p.s. I'm away on business till next sunday, so please leave your comments, i will definately reply sooner or later.

Salam

I for one was against this attack, innocent people mass murdered solely due to the current foreign policy of this country and america. the behaviour of these governments is no better than these people carrying out these attacks in pakistan.

I agree. both are murderers. But from the choice that Pakistan had at that time, I think it made the right one.

i agree with your above statement, women should be allowed to play sports. maybe you should read the hadith on how muslim women should dress, then look at the way these pakistani female cricket players are dressed. We cannot compromise with religion. these women are supposed to represent a muslim nation.

They are not sahabiyahs. Do the guys act like the sahabis? If njot, why do they demand that the women act like sahabiyahs? As far as I can tell, you are male. stop focussing on the women - they will take care of themselves.

To conclude, the problems in pakistan are due to the foriegn agenda of other nations and their own puppet government. The current problem with the indian government is not a week old you know, it has been in exisitent since the british left, now tell me pakistan created that problem.

A people get the government they deserve. The leaders are from the people. Its the people who break everything and smash things when they protest. Its not just one man that leads a political party that does that.

Please don't tell me you one of those puppets who refers to themselves as a 'moderate muslim'. let me tell you something: "being a muslim is like being pregnant, your either pregnant or your not, your either pregnant or your not. please don't be a hypocrite.

I am not calling my self moderate (even though the prophet encouraged moderation). I am calling you naive and wrong. big difference.

Did you know that historical Muslims had the notion that God would side with just non-Muslims over unjust Muslims?

Which Islam says that girls should not be allowed to go to school? The "taliban" (atleast the current form that are fighting in Pakistan) are plain wrong and evil in what they believe and how they act.

I find it hard that they can justify using narcotics to raise funds. If something is haraam, its haraam. you cannot justify it on the basis that it only hurts your "enemies". And then their suicide attacks on innocent civilians trying to live their lives... I want them to produce a scholar that says that such a thing is allowed. (Would that "scholar" still be Muslim with such a statement? is it not openly contradictory of the Qur'an?)

Salam

YOU STATES: I agree. both are murderers. But from the choice that Pakistan had at that time, I think it made the right one.

A question you have to ask yourself, who is committing the most murders? You have a right on expressing that is was ok to attack afghanistan. I would strongly disagree with you, I DID NOT WANT TO HEAR ABOUT ALL THE INNOCENT BROTHERS, SISTERS AND CHILDREN BEING MURDERED DUE TO THIS ATTACK. (may allah grant them all jannat, ameen).Pakistan played a big part in this.

Now my point of view on this. The puppet pakistani government only sided america solely due to financial gains.

YOU STATES: Do the guys act like the sahabis? If njot, why do they demand that the women act like sahabiyahs? As far as I can tell, you are male. stop focussing on the women - they will take care of themselves.

Please refer to my comment, i never demanded anything. I wrote a very small paragraph out of many paragraphs on the dress code of the female cricket team....DOES THIS REALLY IMPLY THAT I AM FOCUSING ON WOMEN? If you remember, i also commented on the male circketers. tut tut. I pray allah gives my muslim sisters the respect and dignity they deserve, ameen. Very lame comment about me focusing on the women, tut tut.

You try to suggest that i'm not allowed to talk about anyone, as its not my business. I'm new to this, am i wrong in thinking this is a debate forum?

YOU STATES: A people get the government they deserve. The leaders are from the people. Its the people who break everything and smash things when they protest. Its not just one man that leads a political party that does that.

The leaders are not from the people, the poor people get bribbed and threatened to vote. Next time there is an election is pakistan, i suggest you to be there. The people of pakistan DO NOT deserve to be punished due to the agenda of other countries. Neither should they be forced to attack a nieghbouring country. Bush's famous statement "your either with us, or without us".

YOU STATES: Which Islam says that girls should not be allowed to go to school? The "taliban" (atleast the current form that are fighting in Pakistan) are plain wrong and evil in what they believe and how they act.

whether or not your above statement is true, it does not deserve the world's most powerful country to attack one of the world's most poorest countries. If men have rights over women, women also have rights over men, women also have rights to study and so on. Did you know that they have the song contest called the X FACTOR in Afghanistan, music was previously banned by the taliban and if you agree, the majority of music is haram in islam. Does this merit an attack on afghanistan?? NO. so if for argument sake, the women at the time were not allowed to educate, this would not merit an attack and the killing of many innocent human beings. I for one would first try to save a live, then try to excercise their rights.

Salam

You try to suggest that i'm not allowed to talk about anyone, as its not my business. I'm new to this, am i wrong in thinking this is a debate forum?

Oops, sorry, carry on. I always try to put my case forward as strongly as possible, and in this point it was that I do not think we should be telling others how to live, nor judge them. You are free it disagree with that point. If you are not, then fair do's.

A question you have to ask yourself, who is committing the most murders? You have a right on expressing that is was ok to attack afghanistan. I would strongly disagree with you, I DID NOT WANT TO HEAR ABOUT ALL THE INNOCENT BROTHERS, SISTERS AND CHILDREN BEING MURDERED DUE TO THIS ATTACK. (may allah grant them all jannat, ameen).Pakistan played a big part in this.

Those people would have been killed anyway, but if Pakistan refused, there would have been more bloodshed as the US took Pakistan out too. That may happen anyway with what happens, but the decisions made at that time were made with the right interests in mind. The Taleban could also have cooperated a little bit more... (and I do know that they were willing to cooperate to a certain degree but the US never gave them the change... that was a shame.)

Did you know that they have the song contest called the X FACTOR in Afghanistan, music was previously banned by the taliban and if you agree, the majority of music is haram in islam.

Depends on the type of music, but even then, let the people do what they want. Forcing them to act more religious will IMO just breed hypocrisy in the future. Teach them Islam and they just might practice it out of their own free will...

(and yes when the taliban banned music, I think they did wrong. Saying that, they were much better than the chaos before them and the people did welcome them because they also have many good qualities - qualities that are twisted and overlooked in the international news media.)

The leaders are not from the people, the poor people get bribbed and threatened to vote.

Do they also get bribed to attend the rallies, protests where they burn tyres and smash up shops? Was there much fraud in the last elections? By most accounts people had a free hand to vote for whoever they wanted to.

YOU STATES: Oops, sorry, carry on. I always try to put my case forward as strongly as possible, and in this point it was that I do not think we should be telling others how to live, nor judge them.

Please pull out one comment of mine where i have told others how to live? i have aired my view, now it is not my problem if you are going to deliberatley misinterpret it. shame you have to use below standard tatics, tut tut.

YOU STATES: Those people would have been killed anyway, but if Pakistan refused, there would have been more bloodshed as the US took Pakistan out too.

You have failed to answer not even one of my many previous questions so please do answer at least this. So lets imagine that an armed person entered your home and asked you to assist them to kill a member of your family. Would you assist them without any fight because they MAY WIPE YOU OUT TOO?????
I wish your answer is no..If it is yes then you need some serious, urgent help. Again pakistan could have refused, they should have resisted against what is blatantly wrong.

YOU STATES: The Taleban could also have cooperated a little bit more... (and I do know that they were willing to cooperate to a certain degree but the US never gave them the change... that was a shame.)

I really think you completely lost it at this point, YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF IN ONE SENTENCE. First you say that the taliban could have co-operated, then you say that the US never gave them a chance. lol. And what do you be mean by they were willing to co-operate to a 'certain degree'? (don't ignore).
You probably basing your arguments on very limited knowledge, i think you only watch one news channel, and probably read one newspaper, is it the SUN?

Now referring to you previously indirectly implying that the taleban were sexist. The taleban did capture a british female reporter, she claimed that they treated her with the utmost respect. She later reverted to Islam masha allah. This of course was not widely highlighted in your BBC/sky reporting.

YOU STATES:(and yes when the taliban banned music, I think they did wrong.

So in your view countries such as Saudi and Iran are wrong to implement the shariah law? This is also enforcement. Again your basing your arguments on one source of information, please be broad minded and seek information from several sources and then come to your conclusions.

And before you jump to your below par tatics, I am not defending the taleban here, so don't accuse. Just like previously, you tried your level best to label me as sexist. shame on you. If you cannot debate without scooping low then i suggest you should keep out.

YOU STATES: Do they also get bribed to attend the rallies, protests where they burn tyres and smash up shops? Was there much fraud in the last elections? By most accounts people had a free hand to vote for whoever they wanted to.

Yes people do get bribbed and threatened by particular political parties.I suggested earlier, you need to be there to find out yourself, get out of your bedroom and go and see the world.

salam

abid hussain wrote:

YOU STATES: Oops, sorry, carry on. I always try to put my case forward as strongly as possible, and in this point it was that I do not think we should be telling others how to live, nor judge them.

Please pull out one comment of mine where i have told others how to live? i have aired my view, now it is not my problem if you are going to deliberatley misinterpret it. shame you have to use below standard tatics, tut tut.

YOU STATES: Those people would have been killed anyway, but if Pakistan refused, there would have been more bloodshed as the US took Pakistan out too.

You have failed to answer not even one of my many previous questions so please do answer at least this. So lets imagine that an armed person entered your home and asked you to assist them to kill a member of your family. Would you assist them without any fight because they MAY WIPE YOU OUT TOO?????
I wish your answer is no..If it is yes then you need some serious, urgent help. Again pakistan could have refused, they should have resisted against what is blatantly wrong.

YOU STATES: The Taleban could also have cooperated a little bit more... (and I do know that they were willing to cooperate to a certain degree but the US never gave them the change... that was a shame.)

I really think you completely lost it at this point, YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF IN ONE SENTENCE. First you say that the taliban could have co-operated, then you say that the US never gave them a chance. lol. And what do you be mean by they were willing to co-operate to a 'certain degree'? (don't ignore).
You probably basing your arguments on very limited knowledge, i think you only watch one news channel, and probably read one newspaper, is it the SUN?

Now referring to you previously indirectly implying that the taleban were sexist. The taleban did capture a british female reporter, she claimed that they treated her with the utmost respect. She later reverted to Islam masha allah. This of course was not widely highlighted in your BBC/sky reporting.

YOU STATES:(and yes when the taliban banned music, I think they did wrong.

So in your view countries such as Saudi and Iran are wrong to implement the shariah law? This is also enforcement. Again your basing your arguments on one source of information, please be broad minded and seek information from several sources and then come to your conclusions.

And before you jump to your below par tatics, I am not defending the taleban here, so don't accuse. Just like previously, you tried your level best to label me as sexist. shame on you. If you cannot debate without scooping low then i suggest you should keep out.

YOU STATES: Do they also get bribed to attend the rallies, protests where they burn tyres and smash up shops? Was there much fraud in the last elections? By most accounts people had a free hand to vote for whoever they wanted to.

Yes people do get bribbed and threatened by particular political parties.I suggested earlier, you need to be there to find out yourself, get out of your bedroom and go and see the world.

salam

No mate, I doubt Admin (You) reads the Sun, you can't read the Sun, not enough words.
Are Iran and Saudi wrong to impliment Sharia law? They DON'T! They impliment draconian laws and then hide behind Sharia, which is a pain in the ass. I think it is WRONG to force someone against their will to live a certain life, "There is no compulsion in religion." Force and Islam are incompatible.

By the way, you do know that Admin asked whether people are bribed to attend rallies and tyre burning demonstrations? Not whether they're forced to vote for a certain party. But at the last election if there was fraud, bribery or blackmail then surely Musharaf would have won? He didn't.