[size=18]Sharon orders 'no let up' on Gaza[/size]Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has ordered "unrestricted" military strikes against Palestinian militants after rocket attacks from Gaza.
Overnight Israeli aircraft launched a series of air raids, injuring several people, and arrested more than 200 suspected militants in the West Bank.
Israel has also taken the unprecedented step of posting artillery pieces on the border with Gaza, and practice-firing.
Palestinians warned the moves could force a ceasefire to collapse.
Amid threats of revenge attacks from militants, Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat called on US President George W Bush to step in to calm the conflict "so we can sustain the cessation of violence". ...
[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4280262.stm]BBC News[/url]
While the millitants are not innocent at all here, I do not see the need to set up artillery pieces with indiscriminate bombing...
[b]EDIT[/b]
The timeline later in the article does seem to suggest this was started by Israel... it all depends on what they were retaliating for. A bombing 'earlier in the year' could have been 9 months ago...
'Indiscriminate' here, Admin, is totally the product of your imagination[url=http://debka.com/headline_print.php?hid=844].[/url]
shelling a civillian area IS indiscriminate. You WILL get 'collateral.
Thus it is indiscriminate.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Indiscriminant is when you target a region irregardless of the targets in that region.
The Israelis targeted specific sites and collateral damage ensued.
Collateral damage does not indicate indiscriminant bombing.
Frankly I think they are totally justified. They gave up all this land in the hopes of a serious peace with the Palestinians - and ended up getting bombed from the very sites they gave up.
The blame for this rests squarely on Hamas.
Israel has not been shelling. Hamas has been shelling Sdeirot. Noone but a fool or a blind partisan would say that doesn't require a response. Hamas and Jihad Islami have done nothing since the withdrawal but burn synagogues, hold Hitlerian rallies, blow up their own people by once again parading their arms in public and explode the border with Egypt for arms smuggling on an unprecedented scale. Are you capable of examining the facts in this one?
such as a school being destroyed...
Yes, Israel decided to drop some missiles instead.
I said Hamaas are not innocent, why cannot you accept your side are not innocent either? Or is Israel protected from mistakes by God?
And this whole cycle of violence started when ISRAEL killed some 'millitants' to which the millitants responded by firing those shells/missiles/pipes/whatever,
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
The difference is Hamas intentionally attacked indiscriminantly to provoke a war.
From the size of the attacks it was being planned - whilst the Israelis were withdrawing.
That's a cowardly attack that absolutely must have a response.
Israel responded - it had to.
And for God's sake somebody ask Mr. Abbas who is in charge of his country.
If he is incapable of holding the militants back from further attacking Israel - even after a monumental 7 month peace deal, the Palestinian Authority is going to have to be dealt with, with even more caution.
Admin,
You are actually siding firmly with Hamas full stop. Israel is bound to take action against Hamas full stop. If Hamas ceased their operations it would be fine. As it happens, this seems to have started when Hamas killed about 20 Palestinians the other day when an arms truck exploded, and contrary to reports by the PA and visual evidence on camera, they claim in a variety of conflicting explanations that it is Israel's fault, and the next day began launching so far some 40 missiles on Sdeirot. Like I said, Israel has to respond. In fact, Sharon has been extremely restrained in the last few weeks of Hamas activity, and will only respond with strategic effectiveness. He also says if the Palestinians think this is how they got Gaza and keep this up, there will be a crackdown and a half like never. Hamas wants to see.
what country?
the police stations have been destroyed in the past, how is he supposed to govern?
I say send in peacekeepers. Then atleast the blame game will stop.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
So Admin it sounds like what you are saying is that Abbas made a promise he knew he couldn't fulfill.
I dunno bout you but around here we call that fraud. And now all that's happened is Hamas has a closer attack staging base to Israel.
How can the Israelis expect to recieve future deals brought under his banner of truce?
Well... that is the way it is. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
If he did not make the deal, he would have been classed as an obstacle to peace... something to be tackled BEFORE anything could be done about the scenario.
Thing is everyone knew the bluff. Israel, USA, Hamas, Islamic Jihad etc.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
So what? Israel is not targeting Abbas. Abbas is refusing, and he can have all the help he needs, to disarm Hamas. Whatever that is about, Israel has to take action.
The US and Israel were aware of no such "bluff" as you put it.
Nobody willingly walks into an ambush - the fact is it looks like the man lied. You're always on Bush for lying about Iraq - where is that attack dog spirit on Abbas whos bluff just turned a peace deal into a cause for continued war well into the future?
If I were an Israeli citizen right now i'd be rightfully furious, Abbas' trick just put the dogs of war right outside their homes and they are barking louder than before!
Well look at the amount of violence in the last 8 months compared to the violence before that... it is a few degree lighter.
Israel destroyed the infrastructure, so ofcourse it knew. This is the same abbas who said that before. The deal at the moment was a voluntary cessation of violence by the millitant groups.
Sharon accepted because he did not have a bogeyman he could blame it on...
And what ambush? over the past nine months alot of the violence has been one sided. against the palestinians.
It btakes two to tango.
Especially when one side has a walking stick instead of a leg.
And I do not like Abbas too much... but here he had no choice.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
lol no no Abbas promised to reign in the militants - that was a central point of this deal. He told the US and Israel that they would adhere to the treaty. You essentially admitted as much up above when you said that Abbas promise was a bluff.
Over the last nine months - as your article explained it's been almost one for one violence but it has been extremely restricted. But now look - the minute the pullout is complete and Israel cannot reenter Gaza - click, plan goes into action and Hamas attacks the Israeli heartland. The ambush was telling the Israelis that relinquishing Gaza would result in a more permanent peace - what it apparently has done is given Hamas and other militants more terrorist launching platforms close to Israel. Apparently so close now as to be able to launch missiles at the cities - indiscriminantly. That's an ambush - they were intentionally lured into this and now the wolves are crowing around them.
Abbas did have a choice - he could have truthfully admitted he wasn't able to reign in the militants rather than "bluffing" as you put it, in a selfish attempt to grab more land and give the terrorists staging platforms closer to their targets.
Its cool that generally extremists are willing to die for peace, but I think the problem is they're willing to kill for it too.
Gentleness and kindness were never a part of anything except that it made it beautiful, and harshness was never a part of anything except that it made it ugly.
Through cheating, stealing, and lying, one may get required results but finally one becomes
That pretty much sums it up.
Is that your quote by the way I can't find it anywhere?
uh huh, and its officially less than thrity minutes old.
Gentleness and kindness were never a part of anything except that it made it beautiful, and harshness was never a part of anything except that it made it ugly.
Through cheating, stealing, and lying, one may get required results but finally one becomes
Wow.
Well done! - You should take it to the quotes page and see if anybody figures out it was yours.
(not a reflection on your person of course.. just very impressive)
(I wouldn't insult a guy that's willing to rip a bullet out of stomach)
Arafat said that. he was classed as an obstacle of peace...
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Arafat said what? (I honestly did come up with the quote by the way.)
This could be the psychic Davvid phenomenon we were discussing. eh?
Gentleness and kindness were never a part of anything except that it made it beautiful, and harshness was never a part of anything except that it made it ugly.
Through cheating, stealing, and lying, one may get required results but finally one becomes
That the palestinian authority was too destryed to reign anyone in.
He was declared as an obstacle to peace.
Is not as if Sharon is going out of his way or peace either. he has all the manouvering of a bull chasing the red cloth...
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Huh?
Arafat said that Abbas could reign in the militants?
I'm totally lost here
Arafat said he could not reign them in... he was declared an obstacle.
If Abbas held the same line he would have had similar fate...
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Admin,
Everything you say on the subject is designed to castigate Israel. But Israel cannot 'reign in' the terrorists, and it is up to Abbas to declare, first of all, an intention to do so. I think Abbas is being very weak, and it is not Israel's fault. It is, however, Israel's problem, and they will deal with it one way or another.
Israel can reign in its own troops instead of have 'no let up'.
especially as this current cycle was fuelled by Israel itself...
Abbas is weak. Its not an act. You remember the police stations that were blown up at the start of the uprising? Well they are coming back to haunt Israel.
I am not hiding my animosity towards Israel. I think it is a terrorist state, and has a doctrine of state terror.
I see the faults in the palestinian authority, hamas etc. Can you see the faults in Israel? Or is it all the Palestinians fault?
Are they getting what they deserved? after all what right did the palestinians ever have to live on their land?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
You are all concerned with blame. Israel acts to defend itself. Hamas acts to undermine Israel at every turn. If Abbas wanted help against Hamas he would have it, and he is potentially not weak but very powerful. It is his choice, Admin. My view is exhausted, I can only state it again and again in response to your blame-game politics, demanding some kind of concession or apology as if that is the be all and end all. Is Israel always perfect? No, but you have it that they are irretrievably 'in the wrong'.
We will never agree.
Hamas is fighting for the freedom of a virtually enslaved people.
Abbas may want to reign it in, but the Palestinian people will never allow that. Not until they have a viable state tey can call home.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Fortunately you and I are not Abbas and Sharon. In any case you seem to believe Hamas should go on fighting no matter what, so as long as you do, you are correct, Admin, that you will always disagree with my thoughts.
We will always disagree.
Its just karma. It was Ben Gurheon who said he will not stop fighting til he has a home called Israel. Or something to that effect.
Irony came around full circle.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
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