A Muslim worker is suing Tesco for discrimination after being asked to transport beer on his forklift truck.
Mohammed Ahmed claims he was in effect forced from his job because managers refused to accept that handling alcohol offended his beliefs.
The 32-year-old, raised in Saudi Arabia, told a tribunal he had never visited a Tesco store and had no idea it sold alcohol when he took on the role.
But he admitted shopping at Sainsbury's, Lidl and Asda and seeing alcohol on sale there.
It was, 'reasonable to expect him to be aware of what Tesco did', said company lawyer Laura Canham, accusing him of giving out mixed messages by suggesting at one point he could handle Budweiser.
The saga began in September last year, when Mr Ahmed, from Derby, started working at the retail giant's distribution depot in Lichfield, Staffordshire.
Realising the problem, Mr Ahmed said he asked for another role but was allegedly told by aggressive supervisors: 'You do the job or go home.'
He lodged a formal complaint in February but was then victimised and harassed, the tribunal in Birmingham heard.
He left two months later, saying he had no choice but to resign 'in protest'.
'I am not saying I am a perfect person, but there was a conflict with my beliefs,' he said.
Miss Canham denied discrimination, saying: 'All other roles, in some form or other, also came into contact with alcohol.'
The tribunal will rule this week.
So what are everyones views on selling/handling alcohol?
Is serving/handling alcohol as bad and drinking it?
Is it true that if you get alcohol on your hands you cant pray namaaz for (i think) 40 days? :doubt:
JazakAllah Khair x
No.
I think that is an incorrect interpretation of a hadith which states soemthing like if you eat something haraam, it stays within you for forty days. That hadith however does nto say that yopu are exempt from eg prayer for during that interval.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
^^^^ ooooh thanks for that.
I only ask because at my last job a customer had some glass bottles in his bag and dropped them. The blue fruity smelling liqiud went all over the floor. I thought it were just fizzy pop because of the smell. When i was cleaning it up i got some on my hands. One of staff said "oh that WKD smells well nice." I was like "what did you just say?" so she just repeated herself. I got up and legged it to the staff room and vigroulsy washed my hands. Had it known it was shaitan wee i would never have cleaned it up.
No not the gum drop buttons! – Gingy
:roll:
Back in BLACK
Whats with the rolleee eyes?
No not the gum drop buttons! – Gingy
So noones allowed to work in Tesco anymore? Or newsagents, for that matter.
...or be a doctor because you are treating drunk people every Friday and Saturday night.
...or a lawyer because you might have to defend someone who drinks alcohol.
...or work in a kebab shop because 95% of their customers are post-pub drunks.
O dear.
Don't just do something! Stand there.
It all depends on how the hadith is interpreted... active/direct participation in alcohol related activities vs passive/indirect participation.
I am sure you would agree that working in a pub is not allowed... now the question is where the limits are. A question that should be (and to be fair, probably has been) answered by scholars of hadith.
PS numbers 2 and 4 - I don't see how they are covered, in even the passive sense :s
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
The doctors: When they give someone a stomach pump they have to 'carry' the alcohol out of the person's body.
And the kebab shop... the shop wouldn't make enough money to stay in business if it wasn't for post-pub business. It's like selling Rizla (paper for rolling cigarettes), you COULD argue that people an use them for anything (including something halal), but in reality the majority of large ones are used for weed,
Is selling a cork-screw haram? No drinks other than wine use a cork, so even though you aren't selling alcohol per se, you're still helping the whole cyle of drinking and puking etc.
I have no answers, I'm just asking questions.
The whole issue is very complicated, and none of us are sheikhs (other than Naz, abviously), but there don't seem to be adequate answers out there for people living in non-Muslim countries,
Don't just do something! Stand there.
Kebab shops probably would, but not have all the sales bunched right at the end.
I am assuming the people actually like the food and do not just consume it because they are drunk and it is easy to access...
As for the case of doctors, they may remove the alcohol from the body, but that is not alcohol as in "will be consumed later" is it?
There are no easy answers. Some times you can avoid things, other times you can't.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
There's nothing wrong with cleaning it up.
e.g. someone wee's on the floor. Is it disgusting cleaning it up? Yes, but you're still cleaning it up which is a virtuous thing.
Gentleness and kindness were never a part of anything except that it made it beautiful, and harshness was never a part of anything except that it made it ugly.
Through cheating, stealing, and lying, one may get required results but finally one becomes
Ha Ha very funny pastee
I have nothing against scholars. If a scholar can present a valid argument backed up with evidence from the Quran/hadith and it doesnt sound shifty then im likely to believe them. Im not one of those Muslims that blindly follows everything a scholar says. I always use more then one source to see whether there are any contradictions. This is something they teach you at uni as well.
In regards to this issue im clueless myself coz I havent done any research on it but when and If I get around to doing it I will present the info for all.
About the pub business, why is it that a Muslim is not allowed to go to the pub? Is it coz they might be influenced to drink? What if your very strong willed and can be in such an atmosphere without getting sucked in?
Ive heard its coz they angels dont enter into places like that but then that would mean you cant shop in a supermarket coz the angels dont enter there either. Sooooo confusing.
Ps Hows the tan coming along? Must be still quite hot there at this time of the year.
No not the gum drop buttons! – Gingy
Why aren't we allowed to go to a pub if we're strong willed? Maybe we are in that sitaution, but wouldn't advise it, cos ou could be setting an example to other Muslims/children.
Chin up, mate! Life's too short.
i wrote a detailed reply then it disappeared so i can't be asked. Basically i know the hanafi position on this topic, it's not sinful to handle packaged goods even if they are haram this includes alcohol, meats and other products. This topic was covered on the forums at some point.
Sunnipath has an answer related to working at supermarkets do a search.
Personally i think it's a matter of faith, if you want to take your faith to the next level then if there is no necessity avoid these kind of jobs. But if you must undertake it, don't go suing the supermarket for your own lack of insight.
These kind of stories make islam appear backward and pedantic.
As for not being allowed in pubs even though strong willed. Maybe its because our prophet
strongly advised us to not even sit at the same table with those who consume alcohol.
“O my people! Truly, this life of the world is nothing but a (quick passing) enjoyment, and verily, the hereafter that is the home that will remain forever.” [Ghafir : 39]
I agree. As I understand it, you are to exert all efforts to avoid going to shops that encourage? selling of alcohol (or other similar haram product). Obviously, this is not possible (take weekly grocery shopping at Tesco for example). But if you have a viable alternative, then make use of it.
Playing the devil's advocate, Employers are obligated to cater for their employee's religious and cultural needs and requirements. This is, from what it seems, what the beer carrying gentleman is putting forward as his line of argument. At least it'll set a precedent eh?
May Allah shine sweet faith upon you this day and times beyond. May your heart be enriched with peace, and may your home be blessed always. Ameen.
I doubt it will set a precedent.
If anything supermarkets will think twice before recruiting a Muslim employee.
No not the gum drop buttons! – Gingy
lol! So true.
Btw my tan is coming along very well. But I started off looking like a tube of toothpaste so I've still got quite a way to go.
Winter here is colder than the UK (and there's no central heating), so I'm making the most of it while I still can.
On a side note. I was watching the weather for the whole of the Middle East on al-Jazeera. It was just city after city with 'sunny - 40 degrees' written next to it. What was the point of that?!
Don't just do something! Stand there.
Thats the same with Pak. I remember when i went the second time we had some rain and it was absolutely freezing and it was only August. i dread to think what its like in December. they never use to get snow down there but recently they have. Its all this global warming.