Brelwi's

i feel sorry for Ed and Admin, whatever happen to Big Bro btw? They go to all the work of creating such a brillant website and a diehard member like Angel hasn't even bother to read their website. Here everything you could possibly want to know about Brewali.

http://www.therevival.co.uk/articles/AHMAD_RAZA_KHAN.htm

ed and admin knw i spend more time on this forum than on their website, and plus that is to long to read...imam Ahmad raza i have heard of him but i wana knw more bout the "modern" brelwi's if there is such a thing...

p.s. big bro is away on vacation/break/holz till sept according to admin

The differences between deoband and bareilly are centrally on 4 issues:

1. Is Rasulullah salallahu alayhi wa sallam noor of bashar?

2. Was Rasulullah salallah alayhi wa sallam Alimul Ghayb?

3. Is Rasulullah salallahu alayhi wa sallam Hazir Nazir?

4. Is Rasulullah salallahu alayhi wa sallam Mukhtar e Kul?

''1. NOOR OR BASHAR?

My belief regarding Rasulullah salallahu alayhi wa sallam is that not only is He among the human kind but He is the highest and noblest of all humans. Not only is He the son of Hazrat Adam alayhis salaam but the chief and leader of the children of Hazrat Adam alayhis salam. Rasulullah salallahu alayhi wa sallam is reported to have said the following regarding himself:

I WILL BE THE LEADER OF ADAM'S PROGENY ON THE DAY OF QIYAMAH.

Therefore it is not only Rasulallah salallahu alayhi wa sallam's honour to man, but his being from mankind is a fact that inspires envy,even amongst the angels. Since Rasulullah salallahu alayhi wa sallam is the noblest of man ''Bashar'' in the field of Divine guidance his teachings are a luminour ligh ''Noor''. This is the Noor that makes man recognise his creator and it is a noor that will last till the day of Qiyamah. Thus my belief regarding Rasulullah salallahu alayhi wa sallam is that He is Bashar as well as a SOURCE of noor.

To accept one and reject the other is a grave error. Bashar and man mean the same thing.

By rejecting the quality of bashar from Rasulullah salallahu alayhi wa sallam one expels Rasulullah salallahu alayhi wa sallam from being amongst mankind.

Whereas on many occasions the Quran clearly proclaims the Prophets as having come from the species of man.

It is the unanimous belief of the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaat that ALLAH has only chosen Prophets from amongst mankind.

The famous book on the beliefs of the Ahlus Sunnah ''Sharah Aqaaid Nasafi'' defines a Rasool in the following words:

A PROPHET IS A MAN WHOME ALLAH HAS CHOSEN TO PROPAGATE HIS MESSAGE AND LAWS.

In another famous Hanafi Fiqhi book ''Fatawa Alamgiri'' on page 363, Vol 2, it is said:

THE ONE WHO SAYS '' I DO NOT KNOW WHETHER RASULULLAH SALALLAHU ALAYHI WA SALLAM IS A MAN OR JINN'' IS NOT A MUSLIM.

Hence we learn that no person of sound reason can reject or negate the fact that Rasulullah salallahu alayhi wa sallam is Bashar.

Some people claim RASULULLAH salallahu alayhi wa sallam is a noor among the many noors of ALLAH cloaked in the garb of man.

This is the same belief that the Christians hold regarding Hazrat Isa alayhis salam ie he was ALLAH cloaked in the garb of man.

There is no room for such evil and erroneous beliefs in islam.

How absurd and foolish can we be to put ALLAH and His creations on one and the same platform?

People of earlier generations have destroyed their religion with such excess and exaggeration.

Rasulullah salallahu alayhi wa sallam also feared the eventual occurrence of such excess and exaggeration in His Ummah. He therefore warned us against such exaggeration in the following words:

DO NOT PRAISE ME EXCESSIVELY AS THE CHRISTIANS HAVE PRAISED HAZRAT ISA ALAYHIS SALAM. THEY HAVE MADE HIM ALLAH AND THE SON OF ALLAH - I AM ALLAH'S SERVANT AND HIS RASOOL. REGARD ME ONLY AS THE SERVANT OF ALLAH AND THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH.

BUKHARI

In the light of the above hadeeth, it can be quite clearly concluded that Rasulullah salallahu alayhi wa sallam is the best of all creation - no creation can surpass his high and noble qualities and character. However he is human and not ALLAH. These are the teachings of Islam and upon them are my beliefs.''

Extract from Diffierence in the ummah and the straight path by Mawlana Muhammad Yusuf Ludhyanwi Shaheed.

Salaam

i would consider myself a 'barelvi' having studied the creed of Shah Ahmad Rida Khan 'alyhi'rahma. However upon studying the aqaid of leading scholars from the Middle-east such as As-Sayyid Muhammad Al-Yaqoubi and the late Sayid Muhammad Alawi Al-Maliki one would have to declare that they also hold the same belief as the so called 'barelvi' hold as well. In all honesty their beliefs can be traced back to the traditional scholars such as Imam Al-Asqalani 'alyhi rahma and Imam Al-Suyuti 'alyhi rahma.

With reagrd to the four points made by Br. agdus Salam I would refer thee to Sunnipath.com to enlighten oneself with the creed of Ahl-us-Sunnah wal Jama'ah. This site is in the main hosted by Arab Sunnis totally neutral so far as the Deo-Barel rivalry is concerned. They also have very moderate scholars from both schools such as Mufti Muhammad Al-Kawthari who is Deo-influenced and Sidi Munawar Ateeq Ridhwi, bareli influenced.

i feel all us entangled in this sub-con quagmire would greatly benefit from the nasiha of the 'ulama e Sunnipath.

Finally with regard to your point on noor and bashar Imam Ahmed Rida 'alyhi rahma has declared who so ever rejects the bashariat of the Prophet salalahu'alyhi waslam a KAAFIR. The Ahl us Sunnah accept the Prophet salalahu'alyhi waslam was both noor and bashar.

Wasalaam

No I wasn't born in Barely however the term is used in the sub-con for those people who share the same beliefs as Imam Ahmad Rida 'alyhi rahma. In all reality the Brelvis in my eyes are those Muslims in the sub-con who belong to the Ahl-us-Sunnah.

The reason they are greatly affiilated with Imam Ahmad Rida 'alyhi rahma is because of the works he wrote to defend the creed of Ahl-us-Sunnah in the sub-con against groups who were intent on spreading the beliefs of the modern-day Salafis and those aligned with the creed of Muhammad Ibn Abd al-Wahab.

The thing is he is a scholar revered throughout the Muslim world for his scholarly works. Scroll to the bottom of the following link to an Arab website: Link

Wasalaam

i think there are a lot of sects goin round sayin one is kafir due to believin in say ilm-e-gaib that the Holy Prophet has, believin that the Holy Prophet is noor as well as bashar...however some may take that to be misguided or kufir like admin said..

yeh if your aqeedah is incorect your iman no longer remains, i wonder say if sum1 did have wrong aqeedah and did lose their iman is it possible for them to come bak in2 islam? ( i wouldnt think so)

neway bed time, ws

Salam
I would like to add some comments regarding the bareilawis. When i began to practise Islam i was being pulled between these 2 groups namely Deobandis and Bareilawis. I was given the booklets from Ghamkol Sharif mosque in Birmingham regarding the so called Deobandi/Wahabi beleifs. After going through this booklet i found it hard to beleive that the so called Deobandi scholars could say such things as was being mentioned in the booklet, as some issue are so clear cut that even a new muslim would know that statements such as Allah can tell lies etc is clear Kufr. So naturally i began approaching Deobandis and asked them to get me access to these books in which the allegations focused, and suprisingly i began to find that the Ghamkol sharif literature was not providing correct information and the more ai researched the more i found that some statements were out right lies and others were to put it nicely distortions or half truths. Its important that whom or wherever you get your source of knowledge from the source has to be truthfull, and unfortunately i found this not to be the case with Ghamkol Sharif litterature (Bareilawi). Hence, i began to find myself aligning more with the deobandi view points. However, i managed to keep myself out of the 'Group' menatlity and to this day accept those things which do conform to the classical works and scholars of Islam. So i dont look to the deobandis or the bareilawi scholars for issues rather those issues which are contested between the 2 groups look at what is said by other scholars. At this point i must make it clear that the vast majority of Bareilawis from my own personal experience make statements which can be Kufr ( bear in mind a statement of Kufr is not the same as a Kafir), as i also know that people from within my close circle call the bareilawis Mushriks,Kafirs etc, which i find quite shocking as these statements are so severe that on the day of judgement there should be fear of Allah. Going back to the topic, i read a brother on this forum state that the beleifs of Ahlul Sunnah are the same as Ahmed Raza Khan and gave examples of Imam Al Alawi al Makki and Sheikh Yaqoobi. It should be noted at this point that Imam Al Alawi had Ijazas to teach from both the scholar Ahmed Raza Khan and from a few of the Deobandi Scholars too, and in the words of Imam Al Alawi an Ijaza from a scholar does not mean an automatic endorsement of the views of that particular scholar, and when Sheikh Yaqoobi was asked regarding the Collection atributed to Abdur Razzak and the hadeeth of Jabir regarding the noor of the Prophet, he stated that 'we wait for an authentic collection be found which contains the hadeeth, until then we remain silent regarding it'(something of this nature). Also at this point i want to make a distinction between Ahmed raza Khan and the Bareialwis and by bareilawis i should also point out the illiterate ones regarding the religion, because from my encounters with 'Bairellawis', and from my research i find that in many cases the beleifs of the Bareilawis are not the same as those written By Ahmed Raza Khan. Alhamdulillah recently Sheikh Nuh has written some articles which clear up a few misconceptions which have been held by both these groups for years and causes strife and divisions to this day, he firstly exhonerates the scholars Deoband from the fatwa of Kufr which seems to have ruffled some feathers of some Bareilawis. This is something which during my research i had already come to know, however only confirmed that which i already came to learn and accept. This is not to say I accept without questions everything Deobandi scholars have to say, however being a subject about bareilawis, this is not the time to talk about the Deobandi school, for which i have great admiration and respect. The issue which are raised against the Bareilawis can be resolved when returning to classical works through the medium of current day scholars. I would like to comment on the issues of beleif, but this article may already be too long so will leave it for another topic on the specific issue. Wa Salam

why because he reads a few naats?

yes but he is a pakistani and most of his naats are in urdu and since the majority of the muslim world doesnt speak urdu and he cant relate to us about being brought in the west. Surely it would have been better saying someone like Shaykh Hamzah Yusuf or ustadh yahya rhodus imam zaid shakir, shaykh Nuh ha mim keller(authorised shaykh in tasawwuf) and a list of others who all speak english.