EVEN in matter in which they are clearly in the wrong?
Lol! Obviously obedience to ALLAH supercedes obedience to creation in matters of prohibition.
If parents order idolworship even then the child has to RESPECTFULLY refuse.
In cases where parents oppose child studying in a madrassah or for a girl to go abroad then parents must be obeyed and another solution be found.
Eg I wanted to study alim course in madrassah full time but my parents want me to go uni. So i go madrassah in evenings and will inshaALLAh go uni in day.
It is accepted masala in Hanafi Fiqh that a person prayin nafl salah has to break his salah and respond to the call of his mother/father if they call him. Regardless of whether it is urgent or not, he has to break his salah there and then and respond to the parents. This is an accepted ruling hanafi fiqh. This highlights the importance of obedience.
In most instances the parents are right and kids are rong.
Another example with me is that i wanted to go to college after gcse but my father respected forbade me and said i had to stay on at skul and do a levels there. At the time i felt anger and was extremely rong in thinking that i knew better. Now 2 years later I am eager to admit i was completely rong and my parents alhamdulillah wre right in forbiding me from college and making me stay at skul.
A Teacher once said to me that children when making decisions look with their heart. Parents when making decisions look with their heads. I trust my parents decisions, even though now i still disagree on a lot but in major issues their decision is better than mine.
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Become obedient to the Chief, Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam, so ALL chiefs become obedient to you.
problem is Kuri-a LOT of things upset them....does that mean kids shud live their lives EXACTLY the way parents want them to live?
parents get upset if u dont marry the person they want u to marry, they get upset if u dont choose the course they want u to do in Uni, they get upset if u read a book and cut ur hair :roll:
and why shud kids always make sacrifices?
parents shouldnt dictate their kids lives to them
i agree that parents shouldnt be over sensitive and in a sense over controlling...for me alhamdulillah my parents dont dictate everything that i do, partly because now that i am older they have trust in me to make right decisions.
il take one of your examples...if a was reading a book and my mum walked in and said why are you reading that book...shouldnt read books alot etc then i would explain to her that it aint doing any harm and i would finish the book! so im not exactly saying that every little thing that gets on your parents nerves should be stopped...its a give+take situation, just got to know when to give and when to take. as long as what your doing is within the limits of Islam then the situation can be discussed properly between parents and kids to Insha'Allah come to an agreement.
concerning making sacrifices...i would sacrifice something if i had full faith that my sacrifice will bring good...e.g me not goin Pakistan, i can do dawah work here in the uk...with full confidence and trust in Allah, and with the blessings of His Beloved Rasool (peace be upon Him and His family) and my beloved Shaykh....knowing that at the same time i am pleasing my parents.
i dont know how it feels to be dictated in everything you do...so im not really in the position to say what should be done by the kids apart from talking to your parents and to explain to them your reasons/opinions...and Insha'Allah with the help of Allah and our Beloved Rasool (peace be upon Him and His family) a mutual agreement can be reached.
il take one of your examples...if a was reading a book and my mum walked in and said why are you reading that book...shouldnt read books alot etc then i would explain to her that it aint doing any harm and i would finish the book! so im not exactly saying that every little thing that gets on your parents nerves should be stopped...its a give+take situation, just got to know when to give and when to take. as long as what your doing is within the limits of Islam then the situation can be discussed properly between parents and kids to Insha'Allah come to an agreement.
concerning making sacrifices...i would sacrifice something if i had full faith that my sacrifice will bring good...e.g me not goin Pakistan, i can do dawah work here in the uk...with full confidence and trust in Allah, and with the blessings of His Beloved Rasool (peace be upon Him and His family) and my beloved Shaykh....knowing that at the same time i am pleasing my parents.
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Lol.
What is it with Asian parents and books? I often hide my book under the pillow and pull out a fashion magazine when my dad comes in my room….
The other day my aunty was having a go at my cousin for reading a book….I said to my cousin “didn’t you know in this family you can watch as many rude scenes on TV, you can watch films all night long and can even allow the little kids to watch Eastenders, but are strictly forbidden from reading books that may stimulate your mind”.
I was told off for being sarcastic…That’s one of my biggest weakness.
But that was a really nice post, I agree with everything you said.
May Allah (swt) make it easy for you to work for Islam, and may He remove all obstacles that you may encounter along the way.
I just wanted to make a few comments on some of the points you have made.
[b]1. Imitating kufr
2. birthdays are haram[/b]
[b]1. Imitating kufr[/b]
This term in shariah is known as 'tashabuh'. It means when you do an act which imitates the jews, christians and other non muslims AND WHEN YOU ARE SEEN CARRYING THIS ACT OUT THEN THE THIRD PERSON WILL THINK YOU ARE A FOLLWER OF THAT RELIGION.
eg. if i wear a cross around my neck then an observer will think I am christian- that is imitating kufr
if i have a red dot on my forehead then an observer will think I am a hindu and that will be imitating kufr
NOW, wearing jeans, eating fish and chips, surfing the net, using knife and fork, wearing a tie etc etc are things that non muslims do , but it would not come under teh category of tashabuh or imitating kufr.
[u]SO IF YOU DO SOMETHING THAT THE KUFFAAR DO BUT DONT DO IT AS PART OF UR AQEEDA OR DEEN BUT OUT OF NEED AND IF THAT ACTION DOESN NOT MAKE OTHERS THINK YOU ARE FOLLOWER OF ANOTHER RELIGION (OTHER THAN ISLAM) THEN THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WITH THAT ACT.[/u]
[b]2. Birthdays.[/b]
This is big subject.
In a nutshell- nothing wrong with them as long as there is nothing in your celebration which breaks the rule of shariah, eg no intermixing, no haram food, drink, behaviour, music etc
The majority of the scholars in the past 1400 years have said it is allowed, permissible and even a reward to celebrate the birthday of the Prophet Muhammad (saw). Scholars including giants like Imam Asqalani, Suyuti, Ibn Jawzi, Imam Nawawi, Imam Alusi, Imam Qastalani, Imam Zurqani, Haji Imadullah Muhajir Makki- the shaykh of the BIG scholars of Deoband.....and many more which I can list if you wish.
So if the BIG scholars IN OUR HISTORY are saying celebrating the b'day of the Prophet is allowed then who are we?
To quote one of the scholars Imam Asqalani, he gives his proof why he celebrates it:
"Shaykh al-Islâm, the Keeper (Hâfiz) of the Time, Abul-Fadl Ibn Hajar [al-`Asqalânî], has been asked about the practice of Mawlid. He answered, and these are his exact words:
...and that which has been confirmed in the Sahîhayn [two rigorously authentic books of ahâdîth, Bukhârî and Muslim], that when the Prophet peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him, came to the city of Medina, he found that the Jews fasted on the day of `Âshûrâ'. When he asked them about it, they said:
This is a day when Allâh drowned Fir`awn (Pharaoh) and saved Mûsâ (Moses). So we fast it in thankfulness to Allâh, the Most High (shukr Allâhu Ta`âlâ).
From this, we learn to perform the act of thankfulness to Allâh, the Most High on a certain day for a bounty He has bestowed or a disaster He has averted. And that act has to be repeated on the same day every year (anniversary). And thankfulness to Allâh, the Most High is done with different kinds of `ibâdât (acts of worship) like sujûd (prostration), fasting, giving charity and recitation (of the Qur'ân). And what bounty is greater than the bounty of the coming of the Prophet peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him, the one who is the Prophet of Mercy on that day?"
Ok to sum up, we need to make sure what we are talking and give evidence about when we say imitating kufr is haram, and birthdays is haram.....
Br AbdusSalamBiharwi you never give ANY evidence for any of your points that is why they ar enot convincing, you just refer to your scholars, which is not good enough I'm afraid.
If this is meant to be a place where we argue and debate and discuss then im sorry but i got the rong end of the stick. It is established that debate and discussion on deen is reserved for those with knowledge.
You say I never back up my points and that that isnt good enough?
It appears I have misunderstood. I shall from now on refrain from this forum becuase i do not even pretend to have the knowledge to make debate on deen. I seek forgiveneess for entering your world.
Assalaamu alaykum wa rahmatulah
Abdus Salam of Bihari, District Mirpur signing off from these centres of learning and light.
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Become obedient to the Chief, Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam, so ALL chiefs become obedient to you.
What is it with Asian parents and books? I often hide my book under the pillow and pull out a fashion magazine when my dad comes in my room….
i know its very strange...its like a taboo issue lol. even though my family is very religious, my mum still sometimes tells me to put my book away (except when its a book by our Shaykh) maybe because parents are apprehensive about what their kids are reading and what effect it will have on them.
"MuslimSister" wrote:
The other day my aunty was having a go at my cousin for reading a book….I said to my cousin “didn’t you know in this family you can watch as many rude scenes on TV, you can watch films all night long and can even allow the little kids to watch Eastenders, but are strictly forbidden from reading books that may stimulate your mind”.
I was told off for being sarcastic…That’s one of my biggest weakness.
you can try reading a passage of the book to them and then they can hear for themselves the stuff that you read...well you can give it a go!
"MuslimSister" wrote:
May Allah (swt) make it easy for you to work for Islam, and may He remove all obstacles that you may encounter along the way.
Jazak'Allah sis...i pray that Allah Almighty blesses all of us with the ability to work for Islam and to spread the true message of our deen, AMEEN
If this is meant to be a place where we argue and debate and discuss then im sorry but i got the rong end of the stick. It is established that debate and discussion on deen is reserved for those with knowledge.
You say I never back up my points and that that isnt good enough?
It appears I have misunderstood. I shall from now on refrain from this forum becuase i do not even pretend to have the knowledge to make debate on deen. I seek forgiveneess for entering your world.
Assalaamu alaykum wa rahmatulah
Abdus Salam of Bihari, District Mirpur signing off from these centres of learning and light.
If you want people to come over to your way of thinking then you have to put some effort into your arguments.
Otherwise you should not be surprised if your assertions are struck down.
If this is meant to be a place where we argue and debate and discuss then im sorry but i got the rong end of the stick. It is established that debate and discussion on deen is reserved for those with knowledge.
It appears I have misunderstood. I shall from now on refrain from this forum becuase i do not even pretend to have the knowledge to make debate on deen. I seek forgiveneess for entering your world.
Assalaamu alaykum wa rahmatulah
Abdus Salam of Bihari, District Mirpur signing off from these centres of learning and light.
dont go-
ur posts are very intresting
the whole point of a disussion forum is to DICUSS-
did u expect to come to a forum where evryone always agrees with one another?
I had LOTS more stuff to discuss with u
"AbdusSalamBiharwi" wrote:
It is accepted masala in Hanafi Fiqh that a person prayin nafl salah has to break his salah and respond to the call of his mother/father if they call him. Regardless of whether it is urgent or not, he has to break his salah there and then and respond to the parents. This is an accepted ruling hanafi fiqh. This highlights the importance of obedience
.
according to Hanifi fiqh a mature girl and boy can get married without their parents consent
"This is an accepted ruling hanafi fiqh"
looks like Imam Hanifah doesnt ALWAYs stress the importnace of obedience to parents in all matters
i do not wish to upset the people of that group/mindset so it best for me to remain silent. Particulalry as my criticism of them wil cut deep and fast.
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Become obedient to the Chief, Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam, so ALL chiefs become obedient to you.
1. My example was relating to nafl salah and responding to the call of the parents.
2. Yours deals with nikah.
As far as I am concerned I didnt say anything to negate or raise objection to the hanafi ruling that a mature female and male may get married independently so I dont understand what am i supposed to respond to?
Yes we agree that parents cant force evry issue, like i said b4 if parents command are in conflict with the command of ALLAH then obedience to ALLAH is obligatory.
However regarding this nikah masala it should be noted that should the mature sane hanafi girl marry beneath her status or if she marries disadvantageously then the parents have a legal right to discard that marriage.
As an example if a Sayyida marries a GhayrSayyid and the parents of the girl object then the marriage stands annulled and has no religious standing despite what other think. The issue of kufu or compatibility again highlights the importance of the parents.
Also it should be noted that hanafi ulama do not support people marrying without parental consent. It is strongly stressed that parental blessing and agreement is a must for the wedding, on a technicality a marriage can stand valid but the ulama also mention that there is major chance of trouble to occur in the marriage due to it being in disobedience to parents.
Both sides of the coin are to be noted.
Just an example of child obedience to parent is that Sayyidina Ibn Umar was told to divorce his wife by Sayyidina Umar. The son immediately divorced her. Similarly Sayyidina Ismaeel alayhis salaam divorced one of his wives on the recommendation of Sayyidina Ibraheem alayhis salaam. Although the child not divorcing was a permitted option, their obedience is to their credit and a sign of their extremely high character.
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Become obedient to the Chief, Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam, so ALL chiefs become obedient to you.
As an example if a Sayyida marries a GhayrSayyid and the parents of the girl object then the marriage stands annulled and has no religious standing despite what other think. The issue of kufu or compatibility again highlights the importance of the parents.
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Is this an Islamic ruling? Are Sayeds forbidden from marrying non-Sayeds?
I said if a Sayyida marries a ghayr sayyid without parental consnet then they marriage can be invalidated should the father object.
This is what amuses me. People dont read what I say they just mae assumptions. Nowhere have I mentioned a forbidden line between our Sayids and us but people (hint hint) start attacking me just for the fun of it.
Im just an innocent who is misunderstood in this cruel world . . . . sighs
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Become obedient to the Chief, Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam, so ALL chiefs become obedient to you.
I said if a Sayyida marries a ghayr sayyid without parental consnet then they marriage can be invalidated should the father object.
This is what amuses me. People dont read what I say they just mae assumptions. Nowhere have I mentioned a forbidden line between our Sayids and us but people (hint hint) start attacking me just for the fun of it.
Im just an innocent who is misunderstood in this cruel world . . . . sighs
I asked a simple question, I wanted to know IF it was forbidden in Islam.
I never said that you mentioned that it was forbidden.
I suggest that you also read posts properly and not assume stuff.
But I still do not see the basis behind such a marraige being invalidated.
Kafa'at by Madrassah In'aamiyah Camperdown South Africa
A healthy marital life coupled with a good relationship make up the prime objects of Nikah. That is only possible when natural inclinations and backgrounds are shared (by both spouses). In the absence of such unity, living together successfully, despite great effort is indeed difficult, as attested to by many marital breakdowns due to non-compatibility.
Certain actions and situations elicit different responses from persons of differing backgrounds and nature. For this reason, the Shari’ah has considered Kafaa’at (suitability and compatibility) between spouses necessary.
Kafaa’at in Lineage
Due to the above, the Fuqahaa (Jurists) have stated that among Arabs, a non-Quraishi male is not a match (Kuf) for a Quraishi woman, nor can any person of non-Arab descent be a match for a woman of Arab descent.
For example, the Sayyids, whether Siddique or Farooque, Uthmaani or Alawi, or belonging to some other branch can never be matched by any person not sharing their lineage, no matter his profession and family status. These families (Sayyids, etc.) are suitable matches for one another, since they share descent from the Quraishi tribe. Thus, marriages between themselves are correct and permitted without any condition as appearing in Darrul Mukhtaar:
‘… And Kafaa’at in lineage. Thus the Quraysh are suitable matches for one another as are the (other) Arabs suitable matches for one another.’
The ruling relevant to non-Arabs is as follows: ‘An Ajmi (non-Arab) cannot be a match for a woman of Arab descent, no matter that he be an Aalim (religious scholar) or even a Sultan (ruling authority). This is the correct view.)
Kafaat in Profession
Among Arabs, Kaf’aat with regards to professions is not considered since such does not usually form a basis for respectability in their society. Rather, all professions are regarded equal. A person of a certain profession does not usually regard another as of lower in status. This is contrary to the practise of non-Arabs who consider professions as status in their society. Professions are accorded different levels in status and on this basis, association of a person of superior profession with another of a lesser degree is regarded as difficult. It is for this reason the noble Shari’ah has taken Kafa’aat into consideration in worldly dealings (although in the sight of Allah, such things are no measure of superiority or inferiority).
Thus, the Fuqahaa (jurists) have stated that a weaver is not a Kufu’ (match) of a tailor, rather he is inferior nor is a tailor the Kufu’ of a cloth merchant nor a cloth merchant the Kufu’ of an Aalim (scholar of Deen) or Qadhi (judge of an Islamic court). (Darrul Mukhtaar vol.3 pg.90; MH Sa’eed)
The Ruling Regarding Consideration of Kafa’aat Being Necessary
It is the saying of Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam), ‘Listen! Women should be married off only by their (Shar’ee) guardians (Wali) and their marriage should take place only with suitable matches.’ (Akfaa).’ (Daaraqutni and Bayhaqi)
It is most suitable for a woman’s Nikah to be contracted by her Wali (Shar’ee guardian) – So that she is not deceived due to inexperience and ignorance and that she remain safe from the destructive reins of desires. Also that she, as far as possible, be married to a Kufu’ (so she remains protected from the distress and incompatibility of marriage to a non-Kufu’)
Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said, ‘Oh Ali (Radhiallaahu Anhu)! Never delay in 3 matters; Salaat – when it’s time is nigh; Janaaza – when it is ready (before you), an unmarried woman – when her Kufu’ (suitable partner) is found.’ (Tirmidhi)
Three things should never be delayed without valid Shar’ee excuse: a) Salaat – when its Mustahabb time has set in. b) Janaaza – When the bier is ready, and c) an unmarried woman – when a Kufu’ is found.
Another saying of Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam), ‘Choose carefully for your seed. Marry suitable (Akfaa) woman and marry off (your females) to them (Akfaa).’
Seek suitable women in marriage. Get married to Akfaa and get your females married off to Akfaa as well (a similar narration comes from Aaisha (Radhiallaahu Anha)
Is Marriage with a non-Kufu’ invalid in all circumstances
The answer to this question is that Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) has advised the Shar’ee guardians of a female to consider her best interests from all angles. Consideration of Kafaa’at is part of this, and her due right. Nevertheless, it is right of the guardians as well. Just as a female may experience shame, incompatibility and disunity by marriage to a non-Kufu’, her guardians also share the same experience. Furthermore, in the case of disagreement, they are inconvenienced and suffer greatly. Due to this, if a sane, Baaligh (one who has reached the age of maturity) female marries a non-Kufu’ without the permission of her guardian, according to the adopted view, the Nikah is void and invalid. (Darrul Mukhtaar and Shaami).
Similarly, if any guardian has the Nikah of a non-Baaligh female performed with a non-Kufu’, it is also void and invalid. However, if the guardian (in question) is the father or paternal grandfather who marries the non-Baaligh female to a non-Kufu’, the Nikah is valid and binding. The affection and kindness of a father or grandfather, being as it is, demands that dispensing with Kafaa’at was not done without consideration of some other greater benefit. Ill-will is definitely not the reason.
If a sane Baaligh female herself consents to marriage with a non-Kufu’, and her guardians as well, the Nikah will be valid and correct, even though it is unsuitable in consideration of future benefits (as appears in Hidaaya and most other reference works).
Reply to One Misconception
This (above) also clarifies the misconception that with regards to non-Arabs, the Fuqahaa (Jurists) have considered a new Muslim as non-Kufu’ of one who is Qadeemul Islam (old Muslim). By this, it seems that new Muslims are unable to marry, since they are non-Kufu’ to those who are Qadeemul Islam (old Muslim). The answer is apparent, that there is no general prohibition in marriage to a non-Kuf’, rather the condition is that both the female as well as her guardian grant her consent. Concerning the marriage of new Muslims, it should be borne in mind that no shame should be attached to this. Marriage with them should be done happily and without reservation.
A Point of Note
One thing should always be borne in mind regarding new Muslim and Nikah. His adherence to Islam should be clear and his sincerity and firmness upon Islam should be apparent from his dealings. Until such is not established, it is not suitable for one to advance or go ahead with the Nikah since this could lead to problems.
Final Note
Superiority and virtue, worldly or otherwise are always of two kinds.
1) Ikhtiyaar (by choice) – that which a human being can earn or attain by his own endeavour.
2) Non-Ikhtiyaar (opp of 1) – which is not the outcome of any effort or endeavour, nor can it be attained by one’s own striving.
An intelligent one is he who continues to strive in attaining the first kind and never loses courage in doing so. Pursuing attainment of the second kind (non-Ikhtiyaari) is a complete abandonment of intelligence and nothing but a waste of time.
The purpose of our discussion is to point out that nobility in lineage is among these non-Ikhtiyaari virtue. This same rule applies here that one so honoured regard it a divine favour and express gratitude thereof while one not so blessed, not engage in pursuit of it thinking that such is better for himself. How can one know whether he will be able to fulfil therights of such upon attainment thereof?
Therefore, strive and work to attain the Ikhtiyaari, the actual real, virtue and an everlasting treasure by which one attains a far greater status in the sight of Allah than those of noble lineage.
Jawaahirul Fiqh vol.2 pg.95; Maktaba Darul Uloom
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Become obedient to the Chief, Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam, so ALL chiefs become obedient to you.
Brother TRUTH is everywhere and Falsehood is everywhere.
I appreciate your advice but let me give you some. This issue is also taught in Gujerat India, in Pakistan and alhamdulillah now in many madaris in uk.
You mention the coke incident. Perhaps you should read in DETAIL what respected Mawlana has written. You will note that there is strong basis and evidence for Respected Mawlanas stance.
Regarding the coke issue again it is not limited to SA. Alhamdulillah i went for umrah 3 months back. Mawlana Makki who delivers dars daily aftre maghrib salah in the shade of Kabatullah also declared that coke is extremely dodgy and that according to his research alcohol is an essential ingredient in its production and manufacuture.
Basically advising me against SA ulama is not effective because i have unfortunately met some SA Ulama who are engaged in bad acts but also gud ones. Blanket banning of SA and blanket pushing of indian/european scholars is a futile act.
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Become obedient to the Chief, Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam, so ALL chiefs become obedient to you.
There are two sides to the argument. Yes while we agree that pious ajamis are more virtuous than impious arabs we also agree that by lineage arabs are more virtuous than ajamis.
People can argue for both points but truth is that at the same time arabs and non arabs are equal in piety etc but in lineage they are different aswell.
Now i have put both sides in the post so plz dnt argue with me, i am saying both points have validity.
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Become obedient to the Chief, Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam, so ALL chiefs become obedient to you.
Now i have put both sides in the post so plz dnt argue with me, i am saying both points have validity.
Lol Relax! I was not arguing with you.
We were having a healthy discussion.
I tell you one thing though brother, you're one of a kind...I have never come across a British Pakistani Muslim who thinks in the same way that you do.
After having seen one of the editors of the revival on the ch4 news we have decided that my reaction to his action was overreaction.
My getting offended at his statement was a foolishness, i forgot of what ilk the revival ppl are.
Hence we have decided to return to this forum, not least because most of the posts are interesting and at times amusing.
salaam
ok bro, explain yourself- WHAT ILK ARE THE REVIVAL PEOPLE?
You saw Zahid Maqbool, the media spokesman for The Revival on Channel 4. You thought 'no beard, no topi, no salwaar kameez'- astagfirullah am I right?
so bro, if you're gonna label us or have a go then at least be open about it, we're big boys, we can take it.
I tell you one thing though brother, you're one of a kind...I have never come across a British Pakistani Muslim who thinks in the same way that you do.
I dont know whether to take that as a compliment or be offended, should i laugh or cry?
Please elaborate.
what exactly is it abt me that so surprises Lady Muslima ?!
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Become obedient to the Chief, Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam, so ALL chiefs become obedient to you.
Lol.
Seriously, easy with the metaphors.
Lol! Obviously obedience to ALLAH supercedes obedience to creation in matters of prohibition.
If parents order idolworship even then the child has to RESPECTFULLY refuse.
In cases where parents oppose child studying in a madrassah or for a girl to go abroad then parents must be obeyed and another solution be found.
Eg I wanted to study alim course in madrassah full time but my parents want me to go uni. So i go madrassah in evenings and will inshaALLAh go uni in day.
It is accepted masala in Hanafi Fiqh that a person prayin nafl salah has to break his salah and respond to the call of his mother/father if they call him. Regardless of whether it is urgent or not, he has to break his salah there and then and respond to the parents. This is an accepted ruling hanafi fiqh. This highlights the importance of obedience.
In most instances the parents are right and kids are rong.
Another example with me is that i wanted to go to college after gcse but my father respected forbade me and said i had to stay on at skul and do a levels there. At the time i felt anger and was extremely rong in thinking that i knew better. Now 2 years later I am eager to admit i was completely rong and my parents alhamdulillah wre right in forbiding me from college and making me stay at skul.
A Teacher once said to me that children when making decisions look with their heart. Parents when making decisions look with their heads. I trust my parents decisions, even though now i still disagree on a lot but in major issues their decision is better than mine.
Become obedient to the Chief, Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam, so ALL chiefs become obedient to you.
i agree that parents shouldnt be over sensitive and in a sense over controlling...for me alhamdulillah my parents dont dictate everything that i do, partly because now that i am older they have trust in me to make right decisions.
il take one of your examples...if a was reading a book and my mum walked in and said why are you reading that book...shouldnt read books alot etc then i would explain to her that it aint doing any harm and i would finish the book! so im not exactly saying that every little thing that gets on your parents nerves should be stopped...its a give+take situation, just got to know when to give and when to take. as long as what your doing is within the limits of Islam then the situation can be discussed properly between parents and kids to Insha'Allah come to an agreement.
concerning making sacrifices...i would sacrifice something if i had full faith that my sacrifice will bring good...e.g me not goin Pakistan, i can do dawah work here in the uk...with full confidence and trust in Allah, and with the blessings of His Beloved Rasool (peace be upon Him and His family) and my beloved Shaykh....knowing that at the same time i am pleasing my parents.
i dont know how it feels to be dictated in everything you do...so im not really in the position to say what should be done by the kids apart from talking to your parents and to explain to them your reasons/opinions...and Insha'Allah with the help of Allah and our Beloved Rasool (peace be upon Him and His family) a mutual agreement can be reached.
Lol.
What is it with Asian parents and books? I often hide my book under the pillow and pull out a fashion magazine when my dad comes in my room….
The other day my aunty was having a go at my cousin for reading a book….I said to my cousin “didn’t you know in this family you can watch as many rude scenes on TV, you can watch films all night long and can even allow the little kids to watch Eastenders, but are strictly forbidden from reading books that may stimulate your mind”.
I was told off for being sarcastic…That’s one of my biggest weakness.
But that was a really nice post, I agree with everything you said.
May Allah (swt) make it easy for you to work for Islam, and may He remove all obstacles that you may encounter along the way.
salaam AbdusSalamBiharwi
I just wanted to make a few comments on some of the points you have made.
[b]1. Imitating kufr
2. birthdays are haram[/b]
[b]1. Imitating kufr[/b]
This term in shariah is known as 'tashabuh'. It means when you do an act which imitates the jews, christians and other non muslims AND WHEN YOU ARE SEEN CARRYING THIS ACT OUT THEN THE THIRD PERSON WILL THINK YOU ARE A FOLLWER OF THAT RELIGION.
eg. if i wear a cross around my neck then an observer will think I am christian- that is imitating kufr
if i have a red dot on my forehead then an observer will think I am a hindu and that will be imitating kufr
NOW, wearing jeans, eating fish and chips, surfing the net, using knife and fork, wearing a tie etc etc are things that non muslims do , but it would not come under teh category of tashabuh or imitating kufr.
[u]SO IF YOU DO SOMETHING THAT THE KUFFAAR DO BUT DONT DO IT AS PART OF UR AQEEDA OR DEEN BUT OUT OF NEED AND IF THAT ACTION DOESN NOT MAKE OTHERS THINK YOU ARE FOLLOWER OF ANOTHER RELIGION (OTHER THAN ISLAM) THEN THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WITH THAT ACT.[/u]
[b]2. Birthdays.[/b]
This is big subject.
In a nutshell- nothing wrong with them as long as there is nothing in your celebration which breaks the rule of shariah, eg no intermixing, no haram food, drink, behaviour, music etc
The majority of the scholars in the past 1400 years have said it is allowed, permissible and even a reward to celebrate the birthday of the Prophet Muhammad (saw). Scholars including giants like Imam Asqalani, Suyuti, Ibn Jawzi, Imam Nawawi, Imam Alusi, Imam Qastalani, Imam Zurqani, Haji Imadullah Muhajir Makki- the shaykh of the BIG scholars of Deoband.....and many more which I can list if you wish.
So if the BIG scholars IN OUR HISTORY are saying celebrating the b'day of the Prophet is allowed then who are we?
To quote one of the scholars Imam Asqalani, he gives his proof why he celebrates it:
"Shaykh al-Islâm, the Keeper (Hâfiz) of the Time, Abul-Fadl Ibn Hajar [al-`Asqalânî], has been asked about the practice of Mawlid. He answered, and these are his exact words:
...and that which has been confirmed in the Sahîhayn [two rigorously authentic books of ahâdîth, Bukhârî and Muslim], that when the Prophet peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him, came to the city of Medina, he found that the Jews fasted on the day of `Âshûrâ'. When he asked them about it, they said:
This is a day when Allâh drowned Fir`awn (Pharaoh) and saved Mûsâ (Moses). So we fast it in thankfulness to Allâh, the Most High (shukr Allâhu Ta`âlâ).
From this, we learn to perform the act of thankfulness to Allâh, the Most High on a certain day for a bounty He has bestowed or a disaster He has averted. And that act has to be repeated on the same day every year (anniversary). And thankfulness to Allâh, the Most High is done with different kinds of `ibâdât (acts of worship) like sujûd (prostration), fasting, giving charity and recitation (of the Qur'ân). And what bounty is greater than the bounty of the coming of the Prophet peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him, the one who is the Prophet of Mercy on that day?"
Ok to sum up, we need to make sure what we are talking and give evidence about when we say imitating kufr is haram, and birthdays is haram.....
Br AbdusSalamBiharwi you never give ANY evidence for any of your points that is why they ar enot convincing, you just refer to your scholars, which is not good enough I'm afraid.
wasalaam
You have given a nice lil post.
What is this forum meant to be about?
If this is meant to be a place where we argue and debate and discuss then im sorry but i got the rong end of the stick. It is established that debate and discussion on deen is reserved for those with knowledge.
You say I never back up my points and that that isnt good enough?
It appears I have misunderstood. I shall from now on refrain from this forum becuase i do not even pretend to have the knowledge to make debate on deen. I seek forgiveneess for entering your world.
Assalaamu alaykum wa rahmatulah
Abdus Salam of Bihari, District Mirpur signing off from these centres of learning and light.
Become obedient to the Chief, Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam, so ALL chiefs become obedient to you.
i know its very strange...its like a taboo issue lol. even though my family is very religious, my mum still sometimes tells me to put my book away (except when its a book by our Shaykh) maybe because parents are apprehensive about what their kids are reading and what effect it will have on them.
you can try reading a passage of the book to them and then they can hear for themselves the stuff that you read...well you can give it a go!
Jazak'Allah sis...i pray that Allah Almighty blesses all of us with the ability to work for Islam and to spread the true message of our deen, AMEEN
If you want people to come over to your way of thinking then you have to put some effort into your arguments.
Otherwise you should not be surprised if your assertions are struck down.
dont go-
ur posts are very intresting
the whole point of a disussion forum is to DICUSS-
did u expect to come to a forum where evryone always agrees with one another?
I had LOTS more stuff to discuss with u
according to Hanifi fiqh a mature girl and boy can get married without their parents consent
"This is an accepted ruling hanafi fiqh"
looks like Imam Hanifah doesnt ALWAYs stress the importnace of obedience to parents in all matters
After having seen one of the editors of the revival on the ch4 news we have decided that my reaction to his action was overreaction.
My getting offended at his statement was a foolishness, i forgot of what ilk the revival ppl are.
Hence we have decided to return to this forum, not least because most of the posts are interesting and at times amusing.
Become obedient to the Chief, Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam, so ALL chiefs become obedient to you.
Who's we? And what do you mean by 'Revival ilk'?
Oh and welcome back!
we is me and my alter egos.
revivial ilk - revival type/group/mindset of ppl who are with this so-called revival
Become obedient to the Chief, Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam, so ALL chiefs become obedient to you.
What is the type/group/mindset of ppl on the Revival?
i do not wish to upset the people of that group/mindset so it best for me to remain silent. Particulalry as my criticism of them wil cut deep and fast.
Become obedient to the Chief, Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam, so ALL chiefs become obedient to you.
Well then, in order to save other people's blushes, and possibly my own, I'll shut my big mouth.
lol, theres no harm in u asking.
Just doesnt mean u gonna necessarily get an answer bro.
Become obedient to the Chief, Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam, so ALL chiefs become obedient to you.
Lol good to see ur back!-I find ur posts very VERY amusing too
I guess the feelings mutual
So how about responding to my post above?
1. My example was relating to nafl salah and responding to the call of the parents.
2. Yours deals with nikah.
As far as I am concerned I didnt say anything to negate or raise objection to the hanafi ruling that a mature female and male may get married independently so I dont understand what am i supposed to respond to?
Yes we agree that parents cant force evry issue, like i said b4 if parents command are in conflict with the command of ALLAH then obedience to ALLAH is obligatory.
However regarding this nikah masala it should be noted that should the mature sane hanafi girl marry beneath her status or if she marries disadvantageously then the parents have a legal right to discard that marriage.
As an example if a Sayyida marries a GhayrSayyid and the parents of the girl object then the marriage stands annulled and has no religious standing despite what other think. The issue of kufu or compatibility again highlights the importance of the parents.
Also it should be noted that hanafi ulama do not support people marrying without parental consent. It is strongly stressed that parental blessing and agreement is a must for the wedding, on a technicality a marriage can stand valid but the ulama also mention that there is major chance of trouble to occur in the marriage due to it being in disobedience to parents.
Both sides of the coin are to be noted.
Just an example of child obedience to parent is that Sayyidina Ibn Umar was told to divorce his wife by Sayyidina Umar. The son immediately divorced her. Similarly Sayyidina Ismaeel alayhis salaam divorced one of his wives on the recommendation of Sayyidina Ibraheem alayhis salaam. Although the child not divorcing was a permitted option, their obedience is to their credit and a sign of their extremely high character.
Become obedient to the Chief, Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam, so ALL chiefs become obedient to you.
Is this an Islamic ruling? Are Sayeds forbidden from marrying non-Sayeds?
Who said anything about forbiddance?
I said if a Sayyida marries a ghayr sayyid without parental consnet then they marriage can be invalidated should the father object.
This is what amuses me. People dont read what I say they just mae assumptions. Nowhere have I mentioned a forbidden line between our Sayids and us but people (hint hint) start attacking me just for the fun of it.
Im just an innocent who is misunderstood in this cruel world . . . . sighs
Become obedient to the Chief, Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam, so ALL chiefs become obedient to you.
I asked a simple question, I wanted to know IF it was forbidden in Islam.
I never said that you mentioned that it was forbidden.
I suggest that you also read posts properly and not assume stuff.
But I still do not see the basis behind such a marraige being invalidated.
lol point taken.
Kafa'at by Madrassah In'aamiyah Camperdown South Africa
A healthy marital life coupled with a good relationship make up the prime objects of Nikah. That is only possible when natural inclinations and backgrounds are shared (by both spouses). In the absence of such unity, living together successfully, despite great effort is indeed difficult, as attested to by many marital breakdowns due to non-compatibility.
Certain actions and situations elicit different responses from persons of differing backgrounds and nature. For this reason, the Shari’ah has considered Kafaa’at (suitability and compatibility) between spouses necessary.
Kafaa’at in Lineage
Due to the above, the Fuqahaa (Jurists) have stated that among Arabs, a non-Quraishi male is not a match (Kuf) for a Quraishi woman, nor can any person of non-Arab descent be a match for a woman of Arab descent.
For example, the Sayyids, whether Siddique or Farooque, Uthmaani or Alawi, or belonging to some other branch can never be matched by any person not sharing their lineage, no matter his profession and family status. These families (Sayyids, etc.) are suitable matches for one another, since they share descent from the Quraishi tribe. Thus, marriages between themselves are correct and permitted without any condition as appearing in Darrul Mukhtaar:
‘… And Kafaa’at in lineage. Thus the Quraysh are suitable matches for one another as are the (other) Arabs suitable matches for one another.’
The ruling relevant to non-Arabs is as follows: ‘An Ajmi (non-Arab) cannot be a match for a woman of Arab descent, no matter that he be an Aalim (religious scholar) or even a Sultan (ruling authority). This is the correct view.)
Kafaat in Profession
Among Arabs, Kaf’aat with regards to professions is not considered since such does not usually form a basis for respectability in their society. Rather, all professions are regarded equal. A person of a certain profession does not usually regard another as of lower in status. This is contrary to the practise of non-Arabs who consider professions as status in their society. Professions are accorded different levels in status and on this basis, association of a person of superior profession with another of a lesser degree is regarded as difficult. It is for this reason the noble Shari’ah has taken Kafa’aat into consideration in worldly dealings (although in the sight of Allah, such things are no measure of superiority or inferiority).
Thus, the Fuqahaa (jurists) have stated that a weaver is not a Kufu’ (match) of a tailor, rather he is inferior nor is a tailor the Kufu’ of a cloth merchant nor a cloth merchant the Kufu’ of an Aalim (scholar of Deen) or Qadhi (judge of an Islamic court). (Darrul Mukhtaar vol.3 pg.90; MH Sa’eed)
The Ruling Regarding Consideration of Kafa’aat Being Necessary
It is the saying of Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam), ‘Listen! Women should be married off only by their (Shar’ee) guardians (Wali) and their marriage should take place only with suitable matches.’ (Akfaa).’ (Daaraqutni and Bayhaqi)
It is most suitable for a woman’s Nikah to be contracted by her Wali (Shar’ee guardian) – So that she is not deceived due to inexperience and ignorance and that she remain safe from the destructive reins of desires. Also that she, as far as possible, be married to a Kufu’ (so she remains protected from the distress and incompatibility of marriage to a non-Kufu’)
Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said, ‘Oh Ali (Radhiallaahu Anhu)! Never delay in 3 matters; Salaat – when it’s time is nigh; Janaaza – when it is ready (before you), an unmarried woman – when her Kufu’ (suitable partner) is found.’ (Tirmidhi)
Three things should never be delayed without valid Shar’ee excuse: a) Salaat – when its Mustahabb time has set in. b) Janaaza – When the bier is ready, and c) an unmarried woman – when a Kufu’ is found.
Another saying of Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam), ‘Choose carefully for your seed. Marry suitable (Akfaa) woman and marry off (your females) to them (Akfaa).’
Seek suitable women in marriage. Get married to Akfaa and get your females married off to Akfaa as well (a similar narration comes from Aaisha (Radhiallaahu Anha)
Is Marriage with a non-Kufu’ invalid in all circumstances
The answer to this question is that Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) has advised the Shar’ee guardians of a female to consider her best interests from all angles. Consideration of Kafaa’at is part of this, and her due right. Nevertheless, it is right of the guardians as well. Just as a female may experience shame, incompatibility and disunity by marriage to a non-Kufu’, her guardians also share the same experience. Furthermore, in the case of disagreement, they are inconvenienced and suffer greatly. Due to this, if a sane, Baaligh (one who has reached the age of maturity) female marries a non-Kufu’ without the permission of her guardian, according to the adopted view, the Nikah is void and invalid. (Darrul Mukhtaar and Shaami).
Similarly, if any guardian has the Nikah of a non-Baaligh female performed with a non-Kufu’, it is also void and invalid. However, if the guardian (in question) is the father or paternal grandfather who marries the non-Baaligh female to a non-Kufu’, the Nikah is valid and binding. The affection and kindness of a father or grandfather, being as it is, demands that dispensing with Kafaa’at was not done without consideration of some other greater benefit. Ill-will is definitely not the reason.
If a sane Baaligh female herself consents to marriage with a non-Kufu’, and her guardians as well, the Nikah will be valid and correct, even though it is unsuitable in consideration of future benefits (as appears in Hidaaya and most other reference works).
Reply to One Misconception
This (above) also clarifies the misconception that with regards to non-Arabs, the Fuqahaa (Jurists) have considered a new Muslim as non-Kufu’ of one who is Qadeemul Islam (old Muslim). By this, it seems that new Muslims are unable to marry, since they are non-Kufu’ to those who are Qadeemul Islam (old Muslim). The answer is apparent, that there is no general prohibition in marriage to a non-Kuf’, rather the condition is that both the female as well as her guardian grant her consent. Concerning the marriage of new Muslims, it should be borne in mind that no shame should be attached to this. Marriage with them should be done happily and without reservation.
A Point of Note
One thing should always be borne in mind regarding new Muslim and Nikah. His adherence to Islam should be clear and his sincerity and firmness upon Islam should be apparent from his dealings. Until such is not established, it is not suitable for one to advance or go ahead with the Nikah since this could lead to problems.
Final Note
Superiority and virtue, worldly or otherwise are always of two kinds.
1) Ikhtiyaar (by choice) – that which a human being can earn or attain by his own endeavour.
2) Non-Ikhtiyaar (opp of 1) – which is not the outcome of any effort or endeavour, nor can it be attained by one’s own striving.
An intelligent one is he who continues to strive in attaining the first kind and never loses courage in doing so. Pursuing attainment of the second kind (non-Ikhtiyaari) is a complete abandonment of intelligence and nothing but a waste of time.
The purpose of our discussion is to point out that nobility in lineage is among these non-Ikhtiyaari virtue. This same rule applies here that one so honoured regard it a divine favour and express gratitude thereof while one not so blessed, not engage in pursuit of it thinking that such is better for himself. How can one know whether he will be able to fulfil therights of such upon attainment thereof?
Therefore, strive and work to attain the Ikhtiyaari, the actual real, virtue and an everlasting treasure by which one attains a far greater status in the sight of Allah than those of noble lineage.
Jawaahirul Fiqh vol.2 pg.95; Maktaba Darul Uloom
Become obedient to the Chief, Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam, so ALL chiefs become obedient to you.
I think you're relying too much on South Africans.
I've come across South Africans declaring female genital mutilation permissable and declaring 'coke and other cool drinks' haraam.
Maybe it would do you good to focus on ulema from Europe and the Subcontinent.
Brother TRUTH is everywhere and Falsehood is everywhere.
I appreciate your advice but let me give you some. This issue is also taught in Gujerat India, in Pakistan and alhamdulillah now in many madaris in uk.
You mention the coke incident. Perhaps you should read in DETAIL what respected Mawlana has written. You will note that there is strong basis and evidence for Respected Mawlanas stance.
Regarding the coke issue again it is not limited to SA. Alhamdulillah i went for umrah 3 months back. Mawlana Makki who delivers dars daily aftre maghrib salah in the shade of Kabatullah also declared that coke is extremely dodgy and that according to his research alcohol is an essential ingredient in its production and manufacuture.
Basically advising me against SA ulama is not effective because i have unfortunately met some SA Ulama who are engaged in bad acts but also gud ones. Blanket banning of SA and blanket pushing of indian/european scholars is a futile act.
Become obedient to the Chief, Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam, so ALL chiefs become obedient to you.
I understand where you're coming from regarding compatibility.
However, as long as this concept is just encouraged and not made mandatory I can see where its coming from.
However, generally speaking- Islam is not a racist religion. An Arab should not be seen as being superior to a non Arab.
yes islam is not racist i agree.
There are two sides to the argument. Yes while we agree that pious ajamis are more virtuous than impious arabs we also agree that by lineage arabs are more virtuous than ajamis.
People can argue for both points but truth is that at the same time arabs and non arabs are equal in piety etc but in lineage they are different aswell.
Now i have put both sides in the post so plz dnt argue with me, i am saying both points have validity.
Become obedient to the Chief, Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam, so ALL chiefs become obedient to you.
Lol Relax! I was not arguing with you.
We were having a healthy discussion.
I tell you one thing though brother, you're one of a kind...I have never come across a British Pakistani Muslim who thinks in the same way that you do.
salaam
ok bro, explain yourself- WHAT ILK ARE THE REVIVAL PEOPLE?
am I right?
You saw Zahid Maqbool, the media spokesman for The Revival on Channel 4. You thought 'no beard, no topi, no salwaar kameez'- astagfirullah
so bro, if you're gonna label us or have a go then at least be open about it, we're big boys, we can take it.
wasalaam
I dont know whether to take that as a compliment or be offended, should i laugh or cry?
Please elaborate.
what exactly is it abt me that so surprises Lady Muslima ?!
Become obedient to the Chief, Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam, so ALL chiefs become obedient to you.
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