abualabbasassaffah wrote:

i ask one very simple question just a simple question

 

show me a single hadith in which the sahaba ra and muhammad saw celebratng mawlid or the first 3 generation and 4 imams who are part of that celebrating mawlid

 

and dont give me muhamamd saw fasting on mondays for that he did not do on the day of mawlid, it was a regular monday thing and he had a second reason for doing that aswell

 

But what reason did the prophet state when asked? that is was the day of his birth.

And then in the qur'an God sends a message of peace to another prophet on the day of his birth, his death and his ressurrection. That is not a sahabah indicating that a day of birth of a prophet is significant, but God. In the Qur'an.

Thirdly, the qur'an asks us to proclaim the favours of our lord and to celebrate. If you do not consider the arrival of the prophet as a favour upon us, then maybe your position has some validity. I on the other hand consider it to be a great favour upon us for us to be in the ummah of the prophet (saw).

You][quote=abualabbasassaffah wrote:

You wrote:

their is a hadith in bukhari is not a evidence post the hadith here along with the full reference

ahlul bidah do not know the meaning of quran and sunnah

A hadith referenced in there I think is this, from a translation of Sahih Bukhari:

Narrated 'Aisha:

Once I saw Allah's Apostle at the door of my house while some Ethiopians were playing in the mosque (displaying their skill with spears). Allah's Apostle was screening me with his Rida' so as to enable me to see their display. ('Urwa said that 'Aisha said, "I saw the Prophet and the Ethiopians were playing with their spears.")

You see, if you do read the classical stuff, you will realise that there are specific forms of dance which are not allowed and these have been discussed in detail in the classical books, but then if you decide to ignore 1200 years of Muslim history and decide that Islam only follows what was found in the last 200 years, the modernism will get you lost.

SInce this topic is about an academic question and now about this topic in details, maybe we should take the discussion to an existing topic which already discusses the ahadith and scholarly opinion - here.

 

dont be a idiot

 

displaying skills with a football is not a dance, no different to how displkaying skills with a sword and spear is not dance todya people do the same with guns martial arts juggling basketball

 

none of these are dances this are simply skills with a certain object

 

i know how to use a bow and arrow if i do some skills with those does that mean im dancing?

 

i can also do some skills with a football and even with a sword again thats not dancing is it its just doing skills and playing with objects

 

dancing and and skills and playing are 2 completely different things

so how pathetic you are twisting things for your twisted lies

 

go to a dictionary and check the meaning of playing skills and dancing we play football according to your definition thats dancing i think you need to know the difference between them

You wrote:

abualabbasassaffah wrote:

second regarding muhammad saw being light their is no evidence from anywhere of such useless claims

Ignoring the qur'an eh?

“O people of the book! Indeed Our Messenger has come to you making clear to you most of what you hid of the Book and forgiving much; Indeed, there has come to you a light and a clear Book from God”

(Surah Maidah 5:15)

The arabic word used is "noor". No evidence apart from the words of the qur'an. I will take the qur'an on this.

abualabbasassaffah wrote:

angels are light humans are clay and jinns are fire i beleive its very easy to understand

I am not one to limit the power of God, for that is what your position is. I believe that God can create humans however He (swt) so wishes and angels however He (swt) so wishes.

Trying to limit the power of God is shirk.

Remind me, when the sahabah tried to copy the prophet with his multi-day fasts, what did the prophet tell them? Or will you ignore ahadith here again because it doesnt fit into your modernist revisions?

It is funny how classical Islam is more in tune with modern day descoveries that modernist revisions try to push as the truth.

you exposed yourself from the second you defended both shia and sufi

1. If you read carefully, I only defended Islamic beliefs. any other stuff you added, I ignored and did not discuss apart from when exposing.

2. If shia have a belief it does not mean its wrong. They consider the prophet as the final prophet - are we to reject such things because they believe the same? No! This is a trap the modernists fall into when they reject classical Islamic opinion simply because eg the kuffaar realise that it is common sense and adopt it. Our guidebook is not to oppose what others do for the sake of it, but to follow Islam through its primary sources and if others do the same, then so be it, that is not a reason to reject it.

same with muhammad saw if the angels did say salaam to him at his birth this was a action only for them not us exactly like the scenario of aadam as, this action was only for the angels not us

erm... Are you telling me that we should not follow the qur'an? The qur'an is a guide for us and if there are bits that are mansukh, there is something that makes them mansukh (and by that I mean real sources, other verses and not your posts on a forum). We cannot just follow what you say. Quote qur'an and sunnah when suggesting that the qur'an should not be followed.

So far:

1. You limit the power of God because it doesnt suit you.

2. You reject the qur'an because it doesnt suit you.

Bravo.

 

Sufi Ashari Maturidis say Allah refers to the prophet Mohammed as a

light (noor) that has come with the Quran in surah Maidah 5:15. Allah

said, “O people of the book! Indeed Our Messenger has come to you making

clear to you most of what you hid of the Book and forgiving much;

Indeed, there has come to you a light and a clear Book from God” (Maidah

5:15)

The Sufi Ashari Maturidis have misunderstood what is meant by the

words ‘there has come to you a light’. These words refer to the prophet

Mohammed but they do not mean he is literal a light from Allah and a

human together.

These words refer to the prophet being the light of the message as he

brought with him the message of Islam which by the will of Allah he

brought the Arabs (the world and the jinn) out the darkness of kufr

(disbelieve) and into the light of Islam. Through his efforts to spread

Islam Allah guided and is still guiding whom he willed/wills from among

mankind and jinn.

Also these words refer to the prophet as being the light of the

guidance and not only the light of the message, because he was sent by

Allah as light of guidance to guide to mankind and the jinn to the

straight path through following his Sunnah. But the prophet also brought

with him a book (the Quran) which contained the message of Allah

(Islam) in it. This book contained in it the light of guidance for those

who followed him as the Quran is Allahs speech for mankind and jinn to

read, reflect, live by, explain, memorise and spread to all of mankind

and the jinn.

So the prophet is referred to as the light of guidance as he was the

one who the Quran was revealed to, he explained it, taught how to recite

it and how to read it properly, he showed us how to respect it, told us

the reward for following it and the punishment for completely rejecting

it or when a person neglects the commands in it by sinning or by

falling short in fulfilling the obligations Allah has demanded in the

Quran, but most importantly of all the prophet showed mankind and the

jinn how to implement the Quran in a persons daily life.

It is important to remember that light of the message and the light of guidance are from Allah only.

The following verse after the one above explains and proves that when

Allah referred to the prophet as a light, he (Allah) only meant that he

is the light of guidance and the message. In the next verse Allah says,

“Allah guides all those who seek his pleasure to ways of peace and he

brings them out of darkness (of kufr) by his permission unto light

(believing in and living according to the Quran) and guides them to a

straight path (following the prophet).” Surah Maidah 5:16

Ibn Jareer Tabaree in his tafsir of surah Maiadah 5:15 he said, “That

is, ‘light’ refers to ‘Muhammad’ because people are guided by him as

they would be with light, this is according to Qatadah (taabiee) and

Al-Zajjaj selected it. And it is also said that it means ‘the Quran’ as

that makes clear truth from falsehood – according to Abi Ali Al-Jaba’ee

but the first opinion is preferred.

Imam al-Qurtubi in hs tafsir of the same verse said, “That is (the

light referred to in the verse is) ‘a radiance’. It is said to be

‘Islam’ and it is (also) said to be ‘Mohammad’ according to al-Zajjaaj.”

He also said “He (Prophet Mohammed) brings them (mankind and jinn) out

of the darkness’s of kufr and ignorance to the noor (light) of Islam and

guidance”.

Ibn Jawzi commented on Allahs saying (there has come to you a light

from Allah), Qatadah said ‘The meaning of Nur is: The Prophet Mohammad

and others say it is Islam (and third saying is it refers to) Kitab al

mubeen that is the Quran.’”

Fakhr ud din Al-Razi said about the verse “There are these opinions:

First is that ‘light’ symbolizes ‘Mohammad’ and ‘the book’ symbolizes

‘the Quran’; the second is that ‘light’ symbolizes ‘Islam’ and ‘the

book’ symbolizes ‘the Quran’; the third is that ‘light’ and ‘the book’

both refer to ‘the Quran’.”

Therefore any Muslim who has readied the above will understand that

surah Maidah 5:15 does not refer to the prophet Mohammed as a literal

light from Allah. The verse refers to the Quran, Islam and the prophet

Mohammed as all being lights of guidance.

The Standing Committee for Academic Research and the Issuing of

Fatwashave stated, “The Prophet has noor (light) which is the light of

the message and guidancefrom Allah, through which Allah guides

whomsoever he will of his slaves. No doubt the light of the message and

of guidance comes from Allah.” Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 1/310.

 

tafsir ibn kathir

 

Explaining the Truth Through the Messenger and the Qur'an

Allah states that He sent His Messenger Muhammad with the guidance

and the religion of truth to all the people of the earth, the Arabs and

non-Arabs, lettered and unlettered. Allah also states that He sent

Muhammad with clear evidences and the distinction between truth and

falsehood. Allah said,

﴿يَـأَهْلَ

الْكِتَـبِ قَدْ جَآءَكُمْ رَسُولُنَا يُبَيِّنُ لَكُمْ كَثِيراً مِّمَّا

كُنتُمْ تُخْفُونَ مِنَ الْكِتَـبِ وَيَعْفُواْ عَن كَثِيرٍ﴾

(O People of the Scripture! Now has come to you Our Messenger

explaining to you much of that which you used to hide from the Scripture

and passing over much.) So the Prophet explained where they altered,

distorted, changed and lied about Allah. He also ignored much of what

they changed, since it would not bring about any benefit if it was

explained. In his Mustadrak, Al-Hakim recorded that Ibn `Abbas said, "He

who disbelieves in stoning (the adulterer to death) will have

inadvertently disbelieved in the Qur'an, for Allah said,

﴿يَـأَهْلَ الْكِتَـبِ قَدْ جَآءَكُمْ رَسُولُنَا يُبَيِّنُ لَكُمْ كَثِيراً مِّمَّا كُنتُمْ تُخْفُونَ مِنَ الْكِتَـبِ﴾

(O People of the Scripture! Now has come to you Our Messenger

explaining to you much of that which you used to hide from the

Scripture) and stoning was among the things that they used to hide.''

Al-Hakim said, "Its chain is Sahih, and they did not record it.'' Allah

next mentions the Glorious Qur'an that He sent down to His honorable

Prophet ,

﴿قَدْ جَآءَكُمْ مِّنَ اللَّهِ نُورٌ وَكِتَـبٌ مُّبِينٌيَهْدِى بِهِ اللَّهُ مَنِ اتَّبَعَ رِضْوَانَهُ سُبُلَ السَّلَـمِ﴾

(Indeed, there has come to you from Allah a light and a plain Book.

Wherewith Allah guides all those who seek His pleasure to ways of

peace.) meaning, ways of safety and righteousness,

﴿وَيُخْرِجُهُمْ مِّنِ الظُّلُمَـتِ إِلَى النُّورِ بِإِذْنِهِ وَيَهْدِيهِمْ إِلَى صِرَطٍ مُّسْتَقِيمٍ﴾

(and He brings them out of darkness by His permission unto light and

guides them to a straight path.) He thus saves them from destruction and

explains to them the best, most clear path. Therefore, He protects them

from what they fear, and brings about the best of what they long for,

all the while ridding them of misguidance and directing them to the

best, most righteous state of being.

﴿لَّقَدْ

كَفَرَ الَّذِينَ قَآلُواْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ

قُلْ فَمَن يَمْلِكُ مِنَ اللَّهِ شَيْئاً إِنْ أَرَادَ أَن يُهْلِكَ

الْمَسِيحَ ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ وَأُمَّهُ وَمَن فِى الاٌّرْضِ جَمِيعاً

وَللَّهِ مُلْكُ السَّمَـوَتِ وَالاٌّرْضِ وَمَا بَيْنَهُمَا يَخْلُقُ مَا

يَشَآءُ وَاللَّهُ عَلَى كُلِّ شَىْءٍ قَدِيرٌ -وَقَالَتِ

الْيَهُودُ وَالنَّصَـرَى نَحْنُ أَبْنَاءُ اللَّهِ وَأَحِبَّاؤُهُ قُلْ

فَلِمَ يُعَذِّبُكُم بِذُنُوبِكُم بَلْ أَنتُمْ بَشَرٌ مِمَّنْ خَلَقَ

يَغْفِرُ لِمَن يَشَآءُ وَيُعَذِّبُ مَن يَشَآءُ وَللَّهِ مُلْكُ

السَّمَـوَتِ وَالاٌّرْضِ وَمَا بَيْنَهُمَا وَإِلَيْهِ الْمَصِيرُ ﴾

(17. Surely, in disbelief are they who say that Allah is the Messiah,

son of Maryam. Say: "Who then has the least power against Allah, if He

were to destroy the Messiah, son of Maryam, his mother, and all those

who are on the earth together'' And to Allah belongs the dominion of the

heavens and the earth, and all that is between them. He creates what He

wills. And Allah is able to do all things.) (18. And the Jews and the

Christians say: "We are the children of Allah and His loved ones.'' Say:

"Why then does He punish you for your sins'' Nay, you are but human

beings of those He has created, He forgives whom He wills and He

punishes whom He wills. And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens

and the earth and all that is between them; and to Him is the return

(of all).

 

you obviously havent done much research in your life

“Say (O Muhammad): I am only a man like you. It has been revealed to me that your Ilaah (God) is One Ilaah (God ___ i.e.

Allaah)”

[al-Kahf 18:110]

 

a son of aadam as cannot be light if they were light they wouldnt be a human being but a angel

 

a tree that is steel is not a tree but something different

 

a tree cannot be light

 

a tree cannot be fire

 

it has to b wood

 

same with human being we are clay

 

as the verse states if muhamamd saw was light he wouldnt be a human being like us for him being light would make him different to us which contradicts the quran

Who are you and why do you think it is acceptable to post long long long long long posts on I dont know what

"I am not one to limit the power of God, for that is what your

position is. I believe that God can create humans however He (swt) so

wishes and angels however He (swt) so wishes.

Trying to limit the power of God is shirk.

Remind me, when the sahabah tried to copy the prophet with his multi-day fasts, what did the prophet tell them? Or will you ignore ahadith here again because it doesnt fit into your modernist revisions?

It is funny how classical Islam is more in tune with modern day descoveries that modernist revisions try to push as the truth."

 

again you obviously havent done much research

 

it is not about what allah can do, if i say can allah turn you into your own father what would your answer be, if i say can allahc rete another god what would your answer be and if i say can allah do something he cant what would your answer be it would be allah does what he wills but these thigns are illogical things to do for it makes no sense

allah says in the quran he creted man from clay, he also says he created the prohpets the same as all human beings, he created all human being the same as aadam as:

The Prophet

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The angels were created

from light, and Iblees was created from smokeless fire, and Adam (peace be

upon him) was created from what has been described to you.” Narrated by

Muslim, 2996.

 

“Their Messengers said to them: We are no

more than human beings like you”

[Ibraaheem 14:11]

 

“O mankind! Be dutiful to your Lord, Who created you from

a single person (Adam), and from him He created his wife (Hawwa/Eve), and

from them both He created many men and women…” [al-Nisaa’ 4:1]

“O mankind, if you are in doubt about the Resurrection,

then verily! We have created you from dust, then from a nutfah (mixed drops

of male and female sexual discharge)…” [al-Hajj 22:5]

“O Prophet! Verily, We have sent you as witness, and a

bearer of glad tidings, and a warner, - and as one who invites to Allaah by

His leave, and as a lamp spreading light.” [al-Ahzaab 33:45-46]

In contrast, Allaah is the First, and He has no beginning, as

He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“He is the First (nothing is before Him) and the Last (nothing

is after Him), the Most High (nothing is above Him), and the Most Near (nothing

is nearer than Him). And He is the All-Knower of every thing.” [al-Hadeed

57:3]

 

as this verses and hadith show all human are from aadam as and all human ahve been creted the same way as aadam as if muhammad saw was created any differently allah wouldve revelaed this and he muhamamd saw wouldve not said i am the same as all human beings for him being light doesnt make him the same as other human beigns it makes him different

 

again as we see this is not about what allah can do, allah has given a system and order to this world, such as the earth rotates the sun, if someone says why didnt allah do the opposite it is illogical

 

again i ask can a angel be created from fire answer is no if its created from fire its attribute of light would be taken away from it, it isnt about whether allah can do this or not its becasue allah ahs given angels an attribute jinns one human one if each of us are not created from our source our indetity is take away from us our attribute is lost

a angel cant be angel without its light jinn cant be jinn without its fire and human cant human without our clay this is our identity human clay

daud as could talk to animals can you, will you copy him in doing that? why not because this is a miracle allah had given to him only

like this allah had given muhammad saw special miracles aswell which we cant copy him on thats why he told the sahaba ra not to copy him for this is a quality allah has only given to him

the power of allah is not limited but when allah says he has done something oppsoite will not happened, if allah says a prophecy the opposite cannot happened otherwise it emans allah is wrong which is impossible

 

if allah says in the quran human and muhammad saw is clay then how can the opposite be true as that shows allah is wrong are you saying you are right allah is wrong and that his book his words are wrong and you are right

 

because thats how you sound

 

so we the modernist have ibn kathir and other schoalrs like the 4 imams who support us you have weak and fabricated hadith

 

again what do you have to say about imam malik who alughed at sufis for dancing becuase he found it stupid and a harram action

Rawrrs_isarollingstone wrote:

@abualabbasassaffah

STOP COPYING AND PASTING HUGE THINGS 

ITS SO FRICKEN ANNOYING IT MAKES ME NOT WANT TO READ THE COMMENTS ON MY OWN FORUM POST

ITS RUDE AND ITS IRRITATING SCROLLING DOWN AND BEING DISAPPOINTED BY YOUR BIG POINTLESS COMMENTS 

IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A DISCUSSION, DO SO PROPERLY BY TALKING IN SMALL COMMENTS USING YOUR OWN WORDS OR ITS NO USE TO ME OR ANYONE.  

Cheers my dear brother. 

 

if you and the other brother above saw the posts youll see its verse sof the quran and tafsir now tafsir is written by schoalrs not by me or you its a schoalrly opinion so tell me any problem with the long posts which have the explanation of verses of quran and hadith

 

we the laymen have no right to give our own words on verses of the quran only shcoalrs can do tafsir on the quran

Rawrrs_isarollingstone wrote:

@abualabbasassaffah

STOP COPYING AND PASTING HUGE THINGS 

ITS SO FRICKEN ANNOYING IT MAKES ME NOT WANT TO READ THE COMMENTS ON MY OWN FORUM POST

ITS RUDE AND ITS IRRITATING SCROLLING DOWN AND BEING DISAPPOINTED BY YOUR BIG POINTLESS COMMENTS 

IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A DISCUSSION, DO SO PROPERLY BY TALKING IN SMALL COMMENTS USING YOUR OWN WORDS OR ITS NO USE TO ME OR ANYONE.  

Cheers my dear brother. 

 

if you and the other brother above saw the posts youll see its verse sof the quran and tafsir now tafsir is written by schoalrs not by me or you its a schoalrly opinion so tell me any problem with the long posts which have the explanation of verses of quran and hadith

 

we the laymen have no right to give our own words on verses of the quran only shcoalrs can do tafsir on the quran

Rawrrs_isarollingstone wrote:

abualabbasassaffah wrote:

Rawrrs_isarollingstone wrote:

@abualabbasassaffah

STOP COPYING AND PASTING HUGE THINGS 

ITS SO FRICKEN ANNOYING IT MAKES ME NOT WANT TO READ THE COMMENTS ON MY OWN FORUM POST

ITS RUDE AND ITS IRRITATING SCROLLING DOWN AND BEING DISAPPOINTED BY YOUR BIG POINTLESS COMMENTS 

IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A DISCUSSION, DO SO PROPERLY BY TALKING IN SMALL COMMENTS USING YOUR OWN WORDS OR ITS NO USE TO ME OR ANYONE.  

Cheers my dear brother. 

 

if you and the other brother above saw the posts youll see its verse sof the quran and tafsir now tafsir is written by schoalrs not by me or you its a schoalrly opinion so tell me any problem with the long posts which have the explanation of verses of quran and hadith

 

we the laymen have no right to give our own words on verses of the quran only shcoalrs can do tafsir on the quran

 

Yeah I got it the first time. 

I obviously don't have a problem with Quran or Hadith. The point is WE CAN RESEARCH AND READ THAT OURSELVES just by Googling it. 

The point of forums is to give your input with perhaps the help of one or two relevant quotes. Not massive things that no one's going to read. So respect my wishes or make your own forum post and get off mine, cos you're making it useless to the average person. And to me. 

 

the point of the forum is also to expose the false and bring out the truth and the ebst way to do tha tregarding islam is quran and sunnah

 

i cannot write things aswell as schoalrs especially classical scholars, and my words will not be take by anyone unless a full quote with reference is given

anyone can say i saw this view their and their but this can be made up by anyone

 

but if you wnat to knowof the hsitory of sufism all you have to do is go their

http://www.ahya.org/amm/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=145

 

"1. If you read carefully, I only defended Islamic beliefs. any other

stuff you added, I ignored and did not discuss apart from when exposing.

2. If shia have a belief it does not mean its wrong. They consider the prophet as the final prophet

- are we to reject such things because they believe the same? No! This

is a trap the modernists fall into when they reject classical Islamic

opinion simply because eg the kuffaar realise that it is common sense

and adopt it. Our guidebook is not to oppose what others do for the sake

of it, but to follow Islam through its primary sources and if others do

the same, then so be it, that is not a reason to reject it."

 

no you said i have a flawed view regarding hussain ra again what flawed view do i have regarding hussain ra

hey dont play the twisting ame with me i am aware of the games all sufis plays

 

what primary source? you have no primary source you cant even post a single verse of teh quran that supports your view you dont ahve a single ahdith accept the fabricated ones to support you and you certainly dont have the views of classical schoalrs to support you

 

i ask you again imam malik laughed at the very practice you claim is correct what do you ahve to say about that

and its from his own book maliks muwatta so dont try and claim tis weak because its not he wrote it himself

shia beleive in alalh i wont say i wont beleive in allah because they beleive in it

the difference here is you beleive in all the false things shias do which makes you both the same

"erm... Are you telling me that we should not follow the qur'an? The

qur'an is a guide for us and if there are bits that are mansukh, there

is something that makes them mansukh (and by that I mean real sources,

other verses and not your posts on a forum). We cannot just follow what

you say. Quote qur'an and sunnah when suggesting that the qur'an should

not be followed.

So far:

1. You limit the power of God because it doesnt suit you.

2. You reject the qur'an because it doesnt suit you.

Bravo."

 

in quran aadam as daughter marrid his son so are you gonna go marry your sister now? its in the quran are you gonna do that now, is me rejecting this going against the quran?

thematter here is this was a law which only existed during that time and is harram now, jsut because its in the quran doesnt make it a law of this time

 

same with the action of angels bowing down to aadam as, i cant use this action as a evidence that i can do sujood to my parents family etc for this was a action which allah only allowed for aadam as and this rule existed in the time of other prophets as aswell, but in the ummah of muhamamd saw like the scenario of aadam as son and daughter has now been made illegal, it is not part of ruling of this ummah

 

same with teh angel saying salam to muhamamd saw this is a action given by allah only to the angels not us it is exactly like the example given above  this is no part of the islamic rulings and law it was only a one off action for the angels like the scenario of aadam as

 

so now i ask you again in the quran aadam as son and daughter got amrried will you marry your sister? the answer is obviously no and the reason si known why aswell

allah ahs revealed many things in the quran not everything is a ruling, not everything is scientific, not everything is history or prophecy or a order from alalh, allah has revealed different things in the quran, he revealed the rulings of the previous ummah but in this ummah they are harram, most of these have been further stated by muhamamd saw in his hadith

now so far you claim i reject verses of the quran hey it seems you dont even know how to follow the rulings from teh quran forget following it

where does allah say in the quran you to say sallam to muhamamd saw other then saying sallallahualaiyuwasallam

where does allah say say sallam to muhamamd saw on fridays, on mondays, on thursdays and otehr days, on night day evening etc on whatever other ways and times you do it, he allah said say give muhamamd saw the sallam of sallallahualayuwasallam but allah doesnt say say whatever sallam dua you have created

 

islam permits dua for muhamamd saw which we all do in salah allahummaswalliallahmuhammadiyuwalaalimuhammmadkamasallaytaalaibrahim and the rest

these are dua from quran and sunnah which we can do and we do some during salah unless you hae created your own way to do that aswell

 

but not the nonsense you claim these ahve no bases in quran and sunnah

again where does allah say to do the nonsense act you do?

or a hadith or quotes from the salafs and 4 imams or any classical scholars

 

Okay one thing needs to be made clear. Saying that all Sufi's believe that the prophet Muhammad (S) is made from Allah's light isn't correct. The belief of noori bashar is a belief of a sect within Islam. Sufi's can be from different sects, hence why i said it was a 'way of life'.

s.b.f wrote:

 

To abualabbasassaffah,

 

Who are you

and why do you think it is acceptable to post long long long long long posts on I dont know what

 

 

You know what they say about empty vessels. They make the most noise.

 

 

malik wrote:

s.b.f wrote:

 

To abualabbasassaffah,

 

Who are you

and why do you think it is acceptable to post long long long long long posts on I dont know what

 

 

You know what they say about empty vessels. They make the most noise.

 

 

 

have you heard of the dog that barks but cant bite

abualabbasassaffah wrote:

if you and the other brother above saw the posts youll see its verse sof the quran and tafsir now tafsir is written by schoalrs not by me or you its a schoalrly opinion so tell me any problem with the long posts which have the explanation of verses of quran and hadith

 

we the laymen have no right to give our own words on verses of the quran only shcoalrs can do tafsir on the quran

erm... what you are saying there is that you shouldnt be arguing as you are a layman (as am i)...

Kind of goes against all you have done after joining this site...

abualabbasassaffah wrote:

You wrote:

erm... Are you telling me that we should not follow the qur'an? The

qur'an is a guide for us and if there are bits that are mansukh, there

is something that makes them mansukh (and by that I mean real sources,

other verses and not your posts on a forum). We cannot just follow what

you say. Quote qur'an and sunnah when suggesting that the qur'an should

not be followed.

So far:

1. You limit the power of God because it doesnt suit you.

2. You reject the qur'an because it doesnt suit you.

Bravo.

 

in quran aadam as daughter marrid his son so are you gonna go marry your sister now? its in the quran are you gonna do that now, is me rejecting this going against the quran?

 

I guess you ignored the bit in bold?

Read the verses on who is allowed to be married and who is not. They abbrogate and overrule all and any previous allowances and bans. They make them mansukh.

So what you suggested there would be going against the qur'an, not following it.

You wrote:

abualabbasassaffah wrote:

if you and the other brother above saw the posts youll see its verse sof the quran and tafsir now tafsir is written by schoalrs not by me or you its a schoalrly opinion so tell me any problem with the long posts which have the explanation of verses of quran and hadith

 

we the laymen have no right to give our own words on verses of the quran only shcoalrs can do tafsir on the quran

erm... what you are saying there is that you shouldnt be arguing as you are a layman (as am i)...

Kind of goes against all you have done after joining this site...

 

when their is a wrong action being done it doesnt matter whether you are a laymen or not you hav eto stop it, if i see a muslim claiming their is 2 allah nauzubillah i wont say i am a laymen and theirfore i should keep my mouth shut and leave this alone, i will have to do somehting to correct it

 

this is the same with ahlul bidah and ahlul shia madkhali mutazilla and others who are out of ahlus sunnha wal jamaah

in fiqh this excuse can be applied and you can follow a madhab or a scholar expert on the field usul al fiqh (madhab is better)

 

but in aqeedah this cannot be applied

if the quran says muhammad saw is created from clay and someone claims something else it has to be dealt with or if quran says yusuf as was put in prison someone else claims it was isa as then this should be corrected

making tafsir and seeing the facts in quran are 2 different things
">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHxXezNN6M8]

 

i can show you a correct fatwa over a incorrec tone but i personally cannot make a fatwa

 

You wrote:

abualabbasassaffah wrote:

You wrote:

erm... Are you telling me that we should not follow the qur'an? The

qur'an is a guide for us and if there are bits that are mansukh, there

is something that makes them mansukh (and by that I mean real sources,

other verses and not your posts on a forum). We cannot just follow what

you say. Quote qur'an and sunnah when suggesting that the qur'an should

not be followed.

So far:

1. You limit the power of God because it doesnt suit you.

2. You reject the qur'an because it doesnt suit you.

Bravo.

 

in quran aadam as daughter marrid his son so are you gonna go marry your sister now? its in the quran are you gonna do that now, is me rejecting this going against the quran?

 

I guess you ignored the bit in bold?

Read the verses on who is allowed to be married and who is not. They abbrogate and overrule all and any previous allowances and bans. They make them mansukh.

So what you suggested there would be going against the qur'an, not following it.

 

and read the verses in quran which says you should only worship wht he and his messnger saw have said and anything they didnt say to to worship you dont do that as this will mean you are innovating and adding new things to the religion

 

allah revealed to muhamamd saw that you should pray 5 times a day this is not written in the quran so will you now add a 6th and 7th because its not their 

 

in the quran allah says he created all human from clay, if alalh created all man from clay then where does the question of muhamamd saw being clay come from allah further confirms this by saying muhammad saw is no different to other human being if he was liught that wouldnt be the case and lastly allah says all human have been created from and same as aadam as even isa as, so again where does the question of muhamamd saw being light come from here as allah ahs already confirmed this

 

so anything you claim will now directly contradict those verses which i have alreay posted

 

where does allah say you are allowed do those action you claim like those angels did

youll say where does it say you shouldnt answer is simple allah never said to do this action and he further states he has already given us the types of worship we are allowed to do and we cannot add anymroe and can only do what he revealed, meaning since that action was never stated, it is not to be included as it will go against this verse and be a innovation

 

allah revealed to muhamamd saw that you should pray 5 times a day this is not written in the quran so will you now add a 6th and 7th because its not their

You cannot add to fardh.

However, when it comes to nawaafil, lets see what the opinion of Ummul Mu'mineen Hadhrat Aisha Siqqeeda (ra) was.

She was asked about a nafl prayer in the morning and if it had been prayed in the time of the prophet (saw). She said no, but even if her own father Hadhrat Abu Bakr As Siddeeque (ra) came out of his grave to stop her, she wouldn't.

You see, your view ignored a large swathe of classical Islam in order to reach a simplistic vision that is easily attracted to many.

(Tahajjud is not a fardh prayer).

You cannot make fardh what is not fardh, haraam what is not haraam, but at the same time you should not oppose people in goodness when they good things that are not obligatory - if people start to read nawaafil at an allowed time, do not prevent them from doing so "because God only ordained 5 prayers!".

in the quran allah says he created all human from clay, if alalh created all man from clay then where does the question of muhamamd saw being clay come from allah further confirms this by saying muhammad saw is no different to other human being if he was liught that wouldnt be the case and lastly allah says all human have been created from and same as aadam as even isa as, so again where does the question of muhamamd saw being light come from here as allah ahs already confirmed this

1. Tell me what happens when you fire an electron at two slits in a wall.

2. God does not say in the Qur'an that the prophet is identical. Just that he is human/a man like the others. Otherwise you cannot compare the prophet of God with an unbeliever and you cannot suggest that they are the same. For one the Prophet was not only ma'sum, he also recieved revelation. The Qur'an states that the qibla was changed to the ka'bah at the whim of the Prophet (saw). SHahih Bukhari contains ahadith where it is said that the companions would use the spit of the prophet for shifaa. None of these things are ordinary and encompassed in me and you. We are not the same and that is just fact.

As an analogy, to a person not aware of cars, a lada and a ferrari are both cars. To the Ferrari owners club, the Lada would not be allowed in. In the same way when addressing the kuffaar, it was said that the prophet is human like them, but when addressing more cultured and discerning people, the sahabah, it was stated that he is not exactly like them. There is no contradiction here, just like you can say that a Lada is a car but you cant say it is a ferrari.

You wrote:

allah revealed to muhamamd saw that you should pray 5 times a day this is not written in the quran so will you now add a 6th and 7th because its not their

You cannot add to fardh.

However, when it comes to nawaafil, lets see what the opinion of Ummul Mu'mineen Hadhrat Aisha Siqqeeda (ra) was.

She was asked about a nafl prayer in the morning and if it had been prayed in the time of the prophet (saw). She said no, but even if her own father Hadhrat Abu Bakr As Siddeeque (ra) came out of his grave to stop her, she wouldn't.

You see, your view ignored a large swathe of classical Islam in order to reach a simplistic vision that is easily attracted to many.

(Tahajjud is not a fardh prayer).

You cannot make fardh what is not fardh, haraam what is not haraam, but at the same time you should not oppose people in goodness when they good things that are not obligatory - if people start to read nawaafil at an allowed time, do not prevent them from doing so "because God only ordained 5 prayers!".

 

reference to this scenario of aisha ra and then i'll respond

You wrote:

in the quran allah says he created all human from clay, if allah created all man from clay then where does the question of muhamamd saw being clay come from allah further confirms this by saying muhammad saw is no different to other human being if he was liught that wouldnt be the case and lastly allah says all human have been created from and same as aadam as even isa as, so again where does the question of muhamamd saw being light come from here as allah ahs already confirmed this

1. Tell me what happens when you fire an electron at two slits in a wall.

2. God does not say in the Qur'an that the prophet is identical. Just that he is human/a man like the others. Otherwise you cannot compare the prophet of God with an unbeliever and you cannot suggest that they are the same. For one the Prophet was not only ma'sum, he also recieved revelation. The Qur'an states that the qibla was changed to the ka'bah at the whim of the Prophet (saw). SHahih Bukhari contains ahadith where it is said that the companions would use the spit of the prophet for shifaa. None of these things are ordinary and encompassed in me and you. We are not the same and that is just fact.

As an analogy, to a person not aware of cars, a lada and a ferrari are both cars. To the Ferrari owners club, the Lada would not be allowed in. In the same way when addressing the kuffaar, it was said that the prophet is human like them, but when addressing more cultured and discerning people, the sahabah, it was stated that he is not exactly like them. There is no contradiction here, just like you can say that a Lada is a car but you cant say it is a ferrari.

 

a ferrari and a lada is made of the same thing  metal ferrari isnt wood and lada isnt wax ferrari might be better but its created from the same thing

as types of creation we are the same as muhamamd saw, in terms of equality then we are not, such as the hadith of isra miraaj when muhammad saw saw aadam as on one side were the children of evil hell and the others were good jannah now we cant say they 2 children of  aadam as are same asa that cant be possible for one is better then the other as ones evil the others goo, but they are both human beings children of aadam as but the difference is one is good and the other evil so although the 2 are children of aadam as they ar enot the same because of their piety but are the same type of creation

 

so naturally in regards to muhammad saw case and the other prophets as and us yes we are not equal, for they are better then us they are not human being like us rather they are better human being then us but we are the same type of creation but the difference is in piety they are better slaves of allah then us, better people then us and due to this they are higher in status then us because they are better human beings then us

 

so i agree in this sense we are not equal but we are the same type of creation like the case of the 2 groups of children of aadam as

 

Some serious 'learning-how-to-quote' needs to be taught.

Why do muslims insist on fighting among themselves over little differences? Its pathetic.

Let people practice their faith however they want. You should be more worried about your own relationship with Allah (swt) then what someone else is doing. At the end of the day everyone does it for themselves, not for others.

Hummus wrote:

Some serious 'learning-how-to-quote' needs to be taught.

 

this websites quoting is far inferior to other islamic forums

[quote=Castiel]Why do muslims insist on fighting among themselves over little differences? Its pathetic.

Let people practice their faith however they want. You should be more worried about your own relationship with Allah (swt) then what someone else is doing. At the end of the day everyone does it for themselves, not for others.[/quote

 

this is not christianity where you can follow thigns the way you want we do it the way allah and his messenger saw wants

abualabbasassaffah wrote:

Hummus wrote:

Some serious 'learning-how-to-quote' needs to be taught.

 

this websites quoting is far inferior to other islamic forums

It may not be great but it's not that hard to get right, why are you finding it difficult to quote properly? Tell us and we may be able to correct where you are going wrong.

@Castiel we shouldn't be arguing and insulting but if someone is doing something wrong and you shw quran/ahadith evidence to prove it, I think it is our duty to guide our fellow Muslims. However opinions should not be forced on someone especially if there are valid differences of opinion.

@Rawrs, I was reading something which mentioned types of sufis - the two types mentioned were those of the qadiriyyah order and those of the tijaniyah order. I associate the word 'order' with a movement kind of thing, I don't know if that's right or not and I don't know if this comment was worth typing, but it's just something I came across yesterday so thought I'd add here.

TPOS wrote:

abualabbasassaffah wrote:

Hummus wrote:

Some serious 'learning-how-to-quote' needs to be taught.

 

this websites quoting is far inferior to other islamic forums

It may not be great but it's not that hard to get right, why are you finding it difficult to quote properly? Tell us and we may be able to correct where you are going wrong.

@Castiel we shouldn't be arguing and insulting but if someone is doing something wrong and you shw quran/ahadith evidence to prove it, I think it is our duty to guide our fellow Muslims. However opinions should not be forced on someone especially if there are valid differences of opinion.

@Rawrs, I was reading something which mentioned types of sufis - the two types mentioned were those of the qadiriyyah order and those of the tijaniyah order. I associate the word 'order' with a movement kind of thing, I don't know if that's right or not and I don't know if this comment was worth typing, but it's just something I came across yesterday so thought I'd add here.

 

im not finding it hard its easy let me show it to you

 

Quote:

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Quote:

22222222222222222222222222222

 

now does it look like i find it hard

 

Quote:

333333333333333333333333333333

 

You're having issues quoting other comments though. As shown in previous comments.