"Seraph" wrote:

"Constantine" wrote:

Texas is a wonderful place

Dont the still have the electric chair there?

Yep.

I think most states have the death penalty.

That really irritates Europeans for some reason

Why?

"Seraph" wrote:

"Constantine" wrote:

Why?

Dont wanna get into it, you'll prob think im anti-America or America bashing...

No i'm curious, this seriously has always bothered me and makes no sense to me.

I always figured it was just Europe trying to be condescending to their international little brother.

The death penalty is sometimes applied mistakenly and when you're dealing with such a harsh penalty you don't want the risk of prejudice getting in the way, which is not humanly possible. So most Europeans are proud not to have it, the choice not to implies a compassion we can be proud of, and somehow we tend to think that compassion is included in the ideals of liberty, equality and fraternity that ever since the French revolution just about every Western country and certainly America have sought to place above all other ideals. Since security doesn't require death, the death penalty comes over as a prohibitive measure that is often called for on economical grounds. Having said that I do understand the harsh penalty mindset and even the gun lobby that says, if criminals think they can get away with it they do so don't deny us our right to defend ourselves and to legislate as appropriate. Still compassion and human fallibility make a strong argument.

oh...

Never really thought about that...

Well there is also the death penalty in Islamic law...

But the judge has to have absolutely no doubt whatsoever, none at all, before it can be used.

I got no problem with it.

"Admin" wrote:

Well there is also the death penalty in Islamic law...

But the judge has to have absolutely no doubt whatsoever, none at all, before it can be used.

I got no problem with it.

Yea to be convicted of a crime in the US it has to be beyond a reasonable doubt, and it is ever appealable.

Frankly I think it needs to be expanded in use to include rapists and child molestors.

No redemption for them - only one way to handle em, a quick drop and a short stop.

But there should be more DNA evidence

'beyond reasonable doubt' should be changed to absolutely certain.

If 'beyond reasonable doubt', just imprison.

If not even beyond resonable doubt, release, as it is now. (or is it plea bargain? I never understood that...)

"Admin" wrote:

'beyond reasonable doubt' should be changed to absolutely certain.

If 'beyond reasonable doubt', just imprison.

If not even beyond resonable doubt, release, as it is now. (or is it plea bargain? I never understood that...)

lol beyound a reasonable doubt is the same thing as absolutely certain.

It simply means that you have no doubts - other than the totally absurd (eg "zombies made him do it") that the person is guilty.

Plea bargaining is the customary first stage of a prosecution - if there is a solid case against you and your lawyer knows it, the defense will offer to plea to a lesser charge, or make a deal for the least amount of prison time. The prosecutor might take the offer to save time and move on to other cases. The person then would plead guilty and there would be no trial.

Personally I think death should only be given to the most gruesome multiple abuses, rapes and murders and only rarely if at all. I'm a great believer in giving space to repent, while protecting society, and that's a case for jails and biblical cities of refuge...

Yea.. religion says forgive everybody.

I'm rarely in forgiving mood when I see a little girl have to carry her stuffed dolphin on to the stand to have the courage to explain what the defendant did to her.

Or women that think they are "dirty" for the rest of their lives and are constantly in fear of walking out side.

I'm a Christian but i'm not Christ. If you are going to doing that to kids or women you just lost your shot at a second chance.

There must be order.

"Constantine" wrote:

Yea.. religion says forgive everybody.

I'm rarely in forgiving mood when I see a little girl have to carry her stuffed dolphin on to the stand to have the courage to explain what the defendant did to her.

Or women that think they are "dirty" for the rest of their lives and are constantly in fear of walking out side.

I'm a Christian but i'm not Christ. If you are going to doing that to kids or women you just lost your shot at a second chance.

There must be order.

I agree, on those examples mentioned above there has to be justice served, sick ppl cant get away with that!

Wow. Can't argue with that. Maybe those girls in court will experience more value in forgiveness than punishment but I don't know for sure. I think the main thing is for them to see there's justice, to know what messy humanity involves and to learn to be secure and free in their lives. Maybe.

"Constantine" wrote:

Yea.. religion says forgive everybody.

I'm rarely in forgiving mood when I see a little girl have to carry her stuffed dolphin on to the stand to have the courage to explain what the defendant did to her.

Or women that think they are "dirty" for the rest of their lives and are constantly in fear of walking out side.

I'm a Christian but i'm not Christ. If you are going to doing that to kids or women you just lost your shot at a second chance.

There must be order.

So, slam the prison door shut and throw away the key.

Frankly I don't think it's about "making things equal" killing the rapist is never going to heal that little girl.

But those crimes offend my sense of natural order - they are so completely perverse and beyond what God intended for civilization, it is right that society should wish to liquidate such people.

As for the victims there is never going to be healing in most cases - but as much government money as possible should be put toward it.

I say deactive the sorry son of a bitch that does it rather than paying for his meals for the rest of his life - and use the money instead to help the child in any possible way you can.

I dunno if any of yall saw this http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/lunsford.report/index.html

But that's a repeat offender - molested a little girl several years ago and got sent to prison, came out and did it again.

If he were executed the first time Jessica would still be alive.

I've been to way too many of these trials to have an ounce of respect for these guys "human dignity"

They are trash - and should be dealt with as such.

Understood. I've always felt it's good to have a heavy like you in the house just for when the heavies come.

"Constantine" wrote:

Frankly I don't think it's about "making things equal" killing the rapist is never going to heal that little girl.

But those crimes offend my sense of natural order - they are so completely perverse and beyond what God intended for civilization, it is right that society should wish to liquidate such people.

As for the victims there is never going to be healing in most cases - but as much government money as possible should be put toward it.

I say deactive the sorry son of a bitch that does it rather than paying for his meals for the rest of his life - and use the money instead to help the child in any possible way you can.

I dunno if any of yall saw this http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/lunsford.report/index.html

But that's a repeat offender - molested a little girl several years ago and got sent to prison, came out and did it again.

If he were executed the first time Jessica would still be alive.

I've been to way too many of these trials to have an ounce of respect for these guys "human dignity"

They are trash - and should be dealt with as such.

It's got nothing to do with respecting their anything.. it's about keeping them alive and watching them suffer. If you kill them, that's it.. over and done with.

However death is final.

No liberal loonies going out of their way to try to get them freed...

Can't make people suffer in the American prison system - it's cruel and unusual punishment.

We don't have to become torturous barbarians to reestablish order and have just retribution, but a quick clean death is completely called for.

Lex Talionis - You destroy somebody elses life, society shall destroy yours.

Not to mention a lot of rape victims I have talked to talk about how they are constantly afraid that these guys will escape and find them. They basically live under a shadow of fear.

Eradicate the offender and the fear is somewhat alleviated.

Dedicate the rest of your resources to trying to help rebuild what they destroyed.

That's justice for everybody.

u guys hav got a good discussion going here, but its kinda off topic admin mayb u shud split this thread?

done so.

I think the discussion is pretty well dead actually...

THE PERVS SHUD BE TORTURED FOR THE REST OF THIER LIFE :!: :x

Can't torture - it's against the law.

We are a nation of laws, not men.

yea :roll:

Besides, what's the point of torturing them?

To me that's only enjoying their suffering - because it sure doesn't make sense to a 9 year old and definitely isn't going to help her feel any better.

And the only people who enjoy suffering are the criminals themselves.

Whereas a quick humane death (with little suffering involved) removes them evermore from our presence.

I mean the line is drawn with the crime in terms of rehabilitation (at least for me). If you steal something, you can be rehabilitated, if somebody is shot and killed by you while robbing a bank - you might be able to rehabilitated.

But if the object of your desire wasn't money, stupidity, or gross neglect - but rather enjoying making a child or woman suffer like that, I haven't got the time to rehabilitate you - you have no second chance for such crimes.

That's what we learned with Couey.

These people are obviously broken - defective, they don't think work or act like the rest of us, not in a repairable pitiable way - but in a malicious sociopathic way.

Let God forgive them - let the state remove them from my presence.

Healing can only [u]start[/u] for the victims when the threat is permanently removed.

That's where the system goes wrong on capital crimes - they liquidate the offender but leave the family to their grief rather than rightly dedicating state resources to help these people.

For me the death penalty is just one step, we would lose our souls if we engaged in medieval acts of torture.

Salam

"Constantine" wrote:

Can't torture - it's against the law.

Which law is this ?

Omrow