"Religious people make crappy humans"

Just a question and you will see it around quite often, probably far more than what should be the case.

You will get religious people who may dress the part, talk the part and pray the part.

But they are crappy humans who seem to ignore all aspects of islam outside of worship and will trespass on others rights and see nown wrong with it.

An example can be found .

Why is this the case? Dont people understand that Islam is more than about banging your head against the floor the allotted number of times?

You have to Q your idea of 'religious' rather than call religious people crappy humans. (general you)

If they pray 5 times a day they are doing the bare minimum, should that be called 'religious'.

But then how are we supposed to measure 'religiousness' when everyone would just be on different levels.

Hmmm

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

subjective societal measurement whereby some people are "seen" as religious (while others not seen as religious may still pray 5 times a day etc).

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

is selfless a desired quality?

i'm working against the idea (thats the main idea of this topic..no reference to Ocean's post)

Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?

You wrote:
subjective societal measurement whereby some people are "seen" as religious (while others not seen as religious may still pray 5 times a day etc).

That's it then isn't it. People have painted a picture in their minds as to what a 'religious' person should look like. It goes back to the saying 'don't judge a book by its cover'.

Other than that i agree with what TPOS said.

Lets reunite the ummah under one flag LA ILAHA IL ALLAH MUHAMMADUR RASULULLAH

ok, what about the definition of "people who seem to do a lot of ibadaat/worship"?

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You mean the ones who act sufi in the masjid and goofy at home?

Lets reunite the ummah under one flag LA ILAHA IL ALLAH MUHAMMADUR RASULULLAH

had this exact same convo at home the other day, at first i didn't agree, but then hearing a few accounts, came to see that praying five times a day and doing all the other good deeds, has very little effect on some people in terms of the way they interact with society. Especially in the business aspect, when it comes to money, religious or not, if someone has no values and only chases that paper, then they'l get it one way or another, and forget their faith in the process.

so yeah a balance is needed, religions is important above everything, but if you follow blindly and can't apply the knowledge that you have gained, then what use is it, because i'm guessing that the way you are with people matters and may be held against you on the day of judgement...for Allah swt will only forgive those wrongs you do to a person if that individual forgives you first....yet this seems not to be in the minds of our so called local 'religious' folk.

& to answer your question, yes some people don't know what islam is, for them praying five times in the masjid in the first row, and making sure your kids pray aswel is your islam completed for you....some have no understanding, or very little at that, which would still be acceptable if you had the intention to seek knowledge, yet you see people live their whole life and not gain an ounce of knowledge outside reading prayers and completing the other 4 pillars of islam....you see these people and they haven't a clue on how to interact in society according to islam, they can, some of them, be the most corrupt individuals.

lack of knowledge is where the problem lies...or it could be plain ignorance and culture taking control.

i'm so confused about that. if someone prays 5 times a day, they are asking Allah (swt) to 'show them the strait path' at least 17 times a day (not including sunnah prayers), and Allah (swt) has Said that he doesn't ignore the supplication of a believer.

So how does someone end up being a [insert word of choice here] if they do their prayers?

And how do we answer the fact that many Muslim-majority countries, and Muslim communities, have corruption and injustices, if the people are Muslims? If Islam doesn't sort out these problems, what good is it?

I notice the difference in me when I pray and when I neglect my prayers. Is it because people become mechanical and are not concentrating? Or they don't know what they are saying in their prayers? Or they are doing it for the benefit of other people watching them? Or is there something wrong with their/our eeman which means Allah (swt) doesn't answer us?

Or am I missing the point altogether?

Don't just do something! Stand there.

I think it is that because sometimes people get the idea that because they are "religious" and maybe even "above" those that seem less religious, they do not need to observe the normal niceties.

Or they may think they have higher callings which absolve them of "lesser" duties.

Either way, an element of ... delusion?

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:
I think it is that because sometimes people get the idea that because they are "religious" and maybe even "above" those that seem less religious, they do not need to observe the normal niceties.

Or they may think they have higher callings which absolve them of "lesser" duties.

Either way, an element of ... delusion?

yeh, but.... 'show me the strait path'... Allah (swt) Shows it to them, then they stop acting all high and mighty.

unless Allah (swt) shows them it, but they (/we) don't take it because they (/we) are arrogant or something.

In fact, that kinda makes sense to me: 'show me the strait path' is different from 'lead me through the strait path'... maybe we can't ever be lead, and must take the strait path when it is put in front of us.

which requires strength and patience and fortitude

i love the word 'fortitude'

Don't just do something! Stand there.

I think, maybe they don't realise what they're saying and it is just an action which they know must be done therefore they don't get as much benefit out of it as they could.

Then again praying isn't every thing, like that man who was killed first amongst his village people as they weren't practising yet he was but didn't share the info or anything and just secluded himself in prayer. That was sort of relevant, I'm sure. Blum 3

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

i think same as TPofS. the fact that it becoems mechanical and you dont actually realise what you're saying "show me the straight path"

you're just saying it... and you dont mean it.

lacks sincerity.

but I also agree with Admin's explanation as well.

May Allah spare us from ever becoming like those disliked people...

Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?

Ameen

Lets reunite the ummah under one flag LA ILAHA IL ALLAH MUHAMMADUR RASULULLAH