British gay Muslims seek Islamic weddings

152 posts / 0 new
Last post
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 4 weeks ago
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 - 21:35

British gay Muslims seek Islamic weddings

British gay Muslims are joining the global fight for equality and seeking gay Islamic marriage. The BBC's 5 live Investigates speaks to one couple about their 'nikah' - a Muslim matrimonial contract - and asks how they balance their sexuality with the Islamic faith.

"We met about three years ago, at an iftar - a breaking of fast during Ramadan.

"I think a lot of Muslims find that time of year very spiritual and very enlightening, and so I think that's why our relationship developed, because we spoke about our faith."

"Eventually we went on a date."

Asra recalls the first time she met her partner, Sarah, three years ago. The gay couple, who are also Muslim, are one of a growing number of gay, British Muslims who have cemented their relationship with marriage - Islamic marriage.

Asra fondly remembers the moment Sarah proposed to her.

"After the first date, which was about an hour, Sarah casually asked me to marry her."

Sarah interjects.

"I think it was more like four hours, after dinner, coffee and walking. I didn't really plan it, but it just really seemed like the way it was between us, I should try and keep it as pure as possible.

"That may sound strange being lesbians, but it felt like we should do it the most honourable way we could."
The Muslim way

Asra and Sarah decided upon a 'nikah' - a Muslim matrimonial contract. Whilst nikahs have traditionally been the reserve of heterosexual Muslims, Asra and Sarah were aware that other gay Muslims had followed this route and the couple decided to investigate further.

Read full article here

You
You's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 9 min ago
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 - 21:33

After Iblis had failed to follow the command of God and had failed to bow before Prophet Adam (as), he was given another chance.

He was asked to explain himself.

His arrogance and denial that he had done anything wrong was what then condemned him.

That is an important lesson IMO - when you do something wrong, as as humans we all will do things which are wrong, do not pretend that they are right or good when they are not.

@'Ed - this is why I wanted a serious article in the magazine from a shaykh discussing the issue. The idea that homosexuality is wrong only according to "conservative interpretations" is becoming more prevalent and the truth that all Muslim groups consider it wrong is being questioned.

If there is no one telling it how it is, we all suffer.

Its time to be angry.

morales (not verified)

The gay question is more of a political one then a religious one in regards to this subject. People are looking to see how tolerance Islam really is and how much of a role it can play in the west. Like it or not, the west has embraced Gay culture and rights and people are looking to see how much tolerance Islam has on this subject matter.

My personal opinion is that muslims need to show more tolerance on the matter, yes its consider a major sin, but so are many other things that don't draw half the amount of passion from some muslims, muslims need to be consistent on drugs, alchlol, gambling, interest, adultery, cheating and backbiting. But normally this isn't the case. People need to remember that we are dealing with human being who have feeling and need our compassion. One thing people need to understand is that gay people can't help feeling they way they do and these feeling have existed for thousand and thousand of years. I don't believe its right, but also I don't believe in condemning them.

Foysol89's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 13 Feb 2011 - 23:50

this is absolutely ridiculous there is no such thing as a gay marriage in Islam.

i don't know why the BBC are highlighting a minority of gay muslims. this is just another attempt to ridicule Islam and the UK muslims.

i don't know why they have all these hidden agendas but they will not work insha allah

Lets reunite the ummah under one flag LA ILAHA IL ALLAH MUHAMMADUR RASULULLAH

You
You's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 9 min ago
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 - 21:33

"embracing gay culture" is not the same as forcing it down the throat of another religion.

Gays can do what they want, but they cannot pretend that it is sanctioned by Islam.

The former is tolerance, the latter is not.

The problem is when people try to pretend that Islam allows it.

Admit that it is a sin and that they are flawed, but no, they would rather pretend that all is hunky dory.

I don't think you will get many alcoholics, drug addicts, gamblers etc try to say "but Islam really allows it..." so there is a diference there as they are probably more accepting that what they are doing is wrong.

One thing people need to understand is that gay people can't help feeling they way they do and these feeling have existed for thousand and thousand of years.

That's just an excuse. People can control what they feel. More, if they feel weak there, they can choose to not to act on their feelings.

Homosexuality cannot be genetically transmitted as suggested by some - a few generatons of it and the fact that the homosexuals wont have kids would mean that it would die out. Homosexuality is a condition of nurture and environment.

Its time to be angry.

morales (not verified)

Its easy to say that people can control how they feeling when what you are feeling is consider to be normal. I have never experience gay feelings, but I can't imagine why people would choose to be gay and alienate all their friends and family, it isn't as easy as switching a button on and off.

My point about drug dealers and all sort of other sins is that they choose to do it, knowing full well that it is wrong, but as a community as a whole we don't criticise or alienate them as much as we do with the gay people. I not asking for muslims to endorse gay culture, but it be nice to see a more well thought out message not condemning them all to hell and the normal quotes that people come out with. I hate reading quote like you can't be "gay and muslims" but stand quiet when half of our family and friend commits sins as bad as gay people, muslims have become more understanding on many things and this is another one, just like to see abit more compassion from muslims on this subject matter.

You
You's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 9 min ago
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 - 21:33

My issue with the article etc is not "should we leave it to God?" (because we have to) but the suggestion that there are Islamic sources that suggest that it is OK.

I'm all for live and let live.

Its time to be angry.

bilan's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 1 week ago
Joined: 26 Nov 2010 - 02:32

whilst reading tht article I was :shock: x 100!! i couldnt believe what I was reading!! but surely a nikah under those conditions isnt valid, because these people are going against the teachings of islam??? and what about the gay imam???! thts like the black KKK!!!!! butte...the lesbians were making out as if the people who had an issue with they homosexuality were muslim people and not islam itself and were just waiting for it to become halal so they can be accepted into the community. but since when do things BECOME halal??? it either is or it isnt...

@morales (sorry if its wrong cnt remember)

you said u dont like prople saying 'you cant be muslim and gay'. but its true, you cannot. its just fact..the way it is.

"Verily, in the remembrance of Allah, do hearts find rest"

Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 months ago
Joined: 9 May 2008 - 18:20

Foysol89 wrote:
this is absolutely ridiculous there is no such thing as a gay marriage in Islam.

i don't know why the BBC are highlighting a minority of gay muslims. this is just another attempt to ridicule Islam and the UK muslims.

i don't know why they have all these hidden agendas but they will not work insha allah

Five live cover it because they're known for covering all things "muslim", sorry as they like to say "islamist". They are the radio equivalent of the trashy sun news paper. They claim to be having a fair discussion to inform the public, but all they do is exploit the headlines and further the propaganda. I have never heard them have any positive programmes on muslims. I'm surprised five live is even classed as a bbc production. All muslims should rally together to bring this station down.

I mean the bbc is looking to cut costs right, axe a few stations, i'd rather this is axed, rather than a music channel, or the more intelligent bbc world service.i mean why should they be allowed to spew their hatred and not be called to account. I've not heard this story, as i don't listen to the station as much as i used to, but it doesn't surprise me at all.

It's so hilarious, there is no such thing as a marriage in islam, or any of the abrahamic religions based on two people of the same gender marrying. Sure they can put together their own sham of a ceremony, but that's all it is a sham, not religious in the slightest.

If muslims don't do something to correct public opinion then we will see Islam dragged through the mud, like christianity, where you have gay churches, gay congregations, gay couples and gay priests to marry them. I hope we don't sit silent while they make a complete mockery of our beliefs, because that is clearly their intention.

“O my people! Truly, this life of the world is nothing but a (quick passing) enjoyment, and verily, the hereafter that is the home that will remain forever.” [Ghafir : 39]

Foysol89's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 13 Feb 2011 - 23:50

Hajjar i totally agree with you we cannot just stay silent and let them ridicule our way of life like they have done to many before us. that will be the difference, we have always and will always stick to out values. there's no two ways of going about it

bilan wrote:

@morales (sorry if its wrong cnt remember)

you said u dont like prople saying 'you cant be muslim and gay'. but its true, you cannot. its just fact..the way it is.

i am afraid i have to disagree with you it is not the case actually. being gay does not take you out the fold of Islam but it is a major sin. as long as one acknowledges that they are committing a sin then they are still within the fold of Islam. on the other hand if they do not accept it as a sin then and only then would they be out of the fold of Islam.

Lets reunite the ummah under one flag LA ILAHA IL ALLAH MUHAMMADUR RASULULLAH

You
You's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 9 min ago
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 - 21:33

yup, that distinction is important.

Its time to be angry.

mush91's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 1 month ago
Joined: 12 Nov 2010 - 09:02

Foysol89 wrote:
Hajjar i totally agree with you we cannot just stay silent and let them ridicule our way of life like they have done to many before us. that will be the difference, we have always and will always stick to out values. there's no two ways of going about it

bilan wrote:

@morales (sorry if its wrong cnt remember)

you said u dont like prople saying 'you cant be muslim and gay'. but its true, you cannot. its just fact..the way it is.

i am afraid i have to disagree with you it is not the case actually. being gay does not take you out the fold of Islam but it is a major sin. as long as one acknowledges that they are committing a sin then they are still within the fold of Islam. on the other hand if they do not accept it as a sin then and only then would they be out of the fold of Islam.

i agree being gay/lesbian does not take you out of islam but will you know its a sin and carry on you are defying the teachings of allah?. if you are trying to make it an islamic wedding isn't that just making your own rulings of islam trying to change the fact that its wrong?...Allah (SWT) does not tell us to live life just for him. everyone can do their own things but follow as Allah (SWT)wills us to. everything that is said to be haram is haram for a reason people. enough trying to make being gay be ok and tolerated in islam. might as well make sex before marriae be ok to and lets all drink to that!
so what if we live in a western world. we're Muslim before we're anything else.

sorry i had a moment of ermmm...whats the word lol

The Wisest of Man Is Not The One Who Knows, But The One Who Seeks Knowledge In Order To Perform

if you can get me some chocolate that would be great.

bilan's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 1 week ago
Joined: 26 Nov 2010 - 02:32

mush91 wrote:
Foysol89 wrote:
Hajjar i totally agree with you we cannot just stay silent and let them ridicule our way of life like they have done to many before us. that will be the difference, we have always and will always stick to out values. there's no two ways of going about it

bilan wrote:

@morales (sorry if its wrong cnt remember)

you said u dont like prople saying 'you cant be muslim and gay'. but its true, you cannot. its just fact..the way it is.

i am afraid i have to disagree with you it is not the case actually. being gay does not take you out the fold of Islam but it is a major sin. as long as one acknowledges that they are committing a sin then they are still within the fold of Islam. on the other hand if they do not accept it as a sin then and only then would they be out of the fold of Islam.

i agree being gay/lesbian does not take you out of islam but will you know its a sin and carry on you are defying the teachings of allah?. if you are trying to make it an islamic wedding isn't that just making your own rulings of islam trying to change the fact that its wrong?...Allah (SWT) does not tell us to live life just for him. everyone can do their own things but follow as Allah (SWT)wills us to. everything that is said to be haram is haram for a reason people. enough trying to make being gay be ok and tolerated in islam. might as well make sex before marriae be ok to and lets all drink to that!
so what if we live in a western world. we're Muslim before we're anything else.

sorry i had a moment of ermmm...whats the word lol

a moment of mushiness??? Blum 3 lool

@morales..ok fine u say tht as long as u accept homosexuality as a sin, it doesnt take u out of the fold of Islam. fair enough...but its quite clear (or it seems to me tht way) tht the people in the article do not see what they are doing as a sin at all and neither would any other muslim that has homosexual relationships???? the only thing that they seem to think is wrong is that others do not provide for them the opportunity to get married like other heterosexual couples!

its just difficult for me to imagine a scenario where someone has a gay marriage and still goes to the mosque to offer their prayers! theres gtta be something wrong with!

"Verily, in the remembrance of Allah, do hearts find rest"

Offline
Last seen: 17 hours 50 min ago
Joined: 8 Nov 2008 - 21:39

This is so shockingly wrong that I don't even have words to describe it.

And everyone's already said everything what I would have said - wrong, invalid "marriage" - if they believe their nikah is valid then surely they are out of the fold of Islam as Islam does not allow this yet they make out it does?

Quote:

sorry i had a moment of ermmm...whats the word lol

A moment of Intelligence! A moment of brilliance! I'm so proud of you! Blum 3 Biggrin nah seriously though, that was a great post with a great message, I especially loved this bit: !
mush91 wrote:

enough trying to make being gay be ok and tolerated in islam. might as well make sex before marriae be ok to and lets all drink to that!

No need to apologise for writing something good! Biggrin

@ morales - I don't think Homosexuality should be accepted, rather those other things you mention, gambling, drinking, adultery etc should be seen as much worse than people already see them.

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

Foysol89's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 13 Feb 2011 - 23:50

i totally agree with you there, i seriously cant stand gay people. i don't care what people say that is how i feel. i mean it takes alot of patience for me to see a gay person and not act violent towards them, physically or verbally

Lets reunite the ummah under one flag LA ILAHA IL ALLAH MUHAMMADUR RASULULLAH

bilan's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 1 week ago
Joined: 26 Nov 2010 - 02:32

Ocean wrote:
I just have one word to say at this point: INSANE!

Hate the SIN not the sinner.

but....wheres the fun in tht???!

nah i just kid lol.

"Verily, in the remembrance of Allah, do hearts find rest"

You
You's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 9 min ago
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 - 21:33

@ Bilan - going against the qur'an is a sin. Yes, it is doing what is wrong, and that is why it is a sin.

Belief on the other hand is about faith.

If someone denied verses in the qur'an or suggests that the qur'an is wrong, that is when the issue comes in.

So doing the haraam act makes a person a sinner. Denying it is haraam however suggests that a person either does not believe the verses of the qur'an, or thinks that the qur'an is wrong. Both of them conclusions are kufr.

Other than that, people sin all the time and if people committing zina thought there was nothing wrong with it, it would have the same belief consequences. People commit zina all the time. Same with drink alcohol.

Its time to be angry.

bilan's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 1 week ago
Joined: 26 Nov 2010 - 02:32

yes, i get wht ur saying You, but would you not agree tht well lets just talk about the women in the article. by being in a gay marriage, they deny what the Quran has to say about it and therefore making them kufr????

but if ur saying their not out of the fold of islam by being gay....then, theyre just a practising muslim like I am, except..their gay????
and also even though being gay and drinking alchol are both sins, the way that theyre carried out is different...someone doesnt drink alcohol 24/7 but u are gay 24/7....

"Verily, in the remembrance of Allah, do hearts find rest"

You
You's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 9 min ago
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 - 21:33

A drunk is a drink.

(I also take issue with people "being gay" as its a preference, not inbuilt, and also people can choose to act on their desires or not and it is the acting on those desires that is wrong. But that "marriage" suggested in there is a sham and it needs to be made clear to all young muslims lest they be taken in by such hoaxes.)

Its time to be angry.

morales (not verified)

The main point I was trying to make was that we shouldn't be so judgemental. That we are dealing with human being, just like the drunks, druggies and adulterers, these people don't ask to be the way they are, they all victim of their environment. To this day I never meant a gay person who been cured. I understand that for most people, being gay is such a unnatural thing that goes against nature and the balance of the world, but they be put on this earth for a reason and we as muslims have to deal with them with compassion and mercy which we have been taught from the Quran and Sunnah.

People will also look for comfort where they can find it, the gay imaam and the marriage is wrong, but you can't blame these people for trying to find understanding for the way they feel, its only natural. I personally wouldn't put them out of the fold of Islam, because they have just intrepreted something in the quran to fit their way of life. The important word is intrepreted, because many groups have intrepreted things in Islam to mean something it doesn't, just like Temporary marriages for Shia and how some Wahabi believe Acholol isn't haram just disliked. Just like with these groups, I don't agree with them, I am happy for the final judgement call to be left with Allah swt, because if we start the habit of putting people out of the fold of Islam, we be left will very few, if any muslims left.

I agree with putting a article out, just hope its isn't one that to judgemental. Because even from the orginal BBC article, you can take some postive out of it, that these people don't want to give up on islam, there is a level of imaan left in them.

Foysol89's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 13 Feb 2011 - 23:50

morales wrote:
The main point I was trying to make was that we shouldn't be so judgemental. That we are dealing with human being, just like the drunks, druggies and adulterers, these people don't ask to be the way they are, they all victim of their environment.

im sorry but how can you say that druggies, adulterers, drunks and homosexuals have no choice. if they had no choice as you say then that would mean people who don't do these things do it because they have no inclination to do these things.

if this was true then what would be the point of Allah testing us if we have no choice but to follow our desires.

morales wrote:
but they be put on this earth for a reason and we as muslims have to deal with them with compassion and mercy which we have been taught from the Quran and Sunnah.

first of all nobody is born homosexual, so therefore Allah did not put homosexuals on the planet, they just chose to be homosexual. secondly where from the Qur'an and sunnah does it say to treat "them" with compassion and mercy.

morales wrote:
The important word is intrepreted, because many groups have intrepreted things in Islam to mean something it doesn't, just like Temporary marriages for Shia and how some Wahabi believe Acholol isn't haram just disliked. Just like with these groups, I don't agree with them, I am happy for the final judgement call to be left with Allah swt, because if we start the habit of putting people out of the fold of Islam, we be left will very few, if any muslims left.

Allah has made some ayats in the Qura'an very clear and others have more than one meaning.
the ayats about drinking and homosexuality are clear cut in meaning.

i agree that we cannot go around saying people are out of the fold of Islam unless it is very clear that they are committing shirk.

Muslims have to stick to their values, whatever Allah has made halal or haraam will always be the same. we as muslims should not compromise these values no matter how "barbaric" or "unjust" some people think they are.

Allah(SWT) knows best

Lets reunite the ummah under one flag LA ILAHA IL ALLAH MUHAMMADUR RASULULLAH

Offline
Last seen: 17 hours 50 min ago
Joined: 8 Nov 2008 - 21:39

Foysol89 wrote:

i agree that we cannot go around saying people are out of the fold of Islam unless it is very clear that they are committing shirk.

Or say the Qur'an is wrong/believe something is allowed even though it clearly isn't...

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

Offline
Last seen: 17 hours 50 min ago
Joined: 8 Nov 2008 - 21:39

Ocean wrote:
None of the gay people believe that the Qur'an is WRONG. They just extract stuff out and interpret it to their liking. I don't know where you got all this jargon about them thinking that the Qur'an is wrong.


I don't think anyone has said they [homosexuals] think the Qur'an is wrong. Foysol was talking about shirk and I added to the reason why a person could be considered out of the fold of Islam.

"Interpret it to their liking" - As Foysol said the ayats about homosexuality are clear cut, you can't just change the interpretation for your convenience and they should be corrected.

Ocean wrote:

All I can say is religion is man made. It is written by man for man. Change is enivitble as man changes. Some just take longer to than others! It will happen happen, but never as quick as we would like!

Obviously the first line's dodgy but what do you think about the rest of the stuff?

All of it's dodgy. People can but Islam can not change.

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

Offline
Last seen: 17 hours 50 min ago
Joined: 8 Nov 2008 - 21:39

I dunno. It's possible - there's people like those mentioned in the article and then theres the fact that adultery/fornication (in other forms) is so normal and not discriminated like is should be, so you know 10/20 years down the line this may be the norm too. Ofcourse, Insha'Allah, I hope not.

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

Foysol89's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 13 Feb 2011 - 23:50

i certailnly hope not

Lets reunite the ummah under one flag LA ILAHA IL ALLAH MUHAMMADUR RASULULLAH

You
You's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 9 min ago
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 - 21:33

Ocean wrote:
I think it'll just be another sect of Muslims. Gay Muslims.

Sects generally dont work like that.

Its time to be angry.

mush91's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 1 month ago
Joined: 12 Nov 2010 - 09:02

omg i just read something in one of the posts and i agree
Allah (swt) has put us here to test us all. we all have many desires which we are meant to over come
if we all act on our desires, the world will be full of rape, sex before marriage, drinking, absoloutely everything people want to do.
yeah i agree we should have compassion and shouldnt have hatred towards them but they should understand it is extremely forbidden and that it shouldnt be
Allah (swt) has created man and woman for a reason.
interpreting your own version of the Qur'an is worse than just doing haram isn't it?
having an islamic view on this matter is better than a western one.
IT IS NEVER OK TO BE GAY
Everyone who does haram is able to ask Allah (swt) for forgiveness and repent against their wrong doings
Why follow desires in this life when Allah (swt) has created an afterlife more beautiful and more desirable than this for those who follow Allah swt's words. and live by his teachings. at the end of the day Allah has created us to worship him.

sorry for the essay people Smile

The Wisest of Man Is Not The One Who Knows, But The One Who Seeks Knowledge In Order To Perform

if you can get me some chocolate that would be great.

Foysol89's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 13 Feb 2011 - 23:50

mush91 wrote:
sorry for the essay people Smile

don't worry sometimes we need it as we all need a reminder from time to time. plus i like that you agree with me Smile

Lets reunite the ummah under one flag LA ILAHA IL ALLAH MUHAMMADUR RASULULLAH

mush91's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 1 month ago
Joined: 12 Nov 2010 - 09:02

lol how did you find out i agreed with you? lol Blum 3

The Wisest of Man Is Not The One Who Knows, But The One Who Seeks Knowledge In Order To Perform

if you can get me some chocolate that would be great.

Foysol89's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 13 Feb 2011 - 23:50

because the post you agreed with was mine Smile

Lets reunite the ummah under one flag LA ILAHA IL ALLAH MUHAMMADUR RASULULLAH

Offline
Last seen: 4 days 42 min ago
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 - 14:09

is there a punishment in Shariah law for drinking alcohol, gambling, using drugs?

as both Morales and Admin said: its nurture/the environment that lead to homosexuality. so... sort out the evironment is the first thing that come to mind no?

Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?

Pages