French President calls for ban on "burkha"

TheRevivalEditordid i say anything about changing your beleifs because of others.... I am simply making ppl aware that the 'security' issue is a big factor amongst non Muslims regarding niqab- if u read all my posts i have written you would have said something sensible and not sensational.

I'll let Frank do the talking:

Women, West Brom, the burka and me

I think Sarkozy is wrong about the veil - and not just because I was a football mascot for 55 minutes

I was once asked if I'd like to be the mascot at a West Bromwich Albion football match. It involved me having to wear a large thrush costume. I mean, of course, the bird. It wasn't some tasteless promotional event where I was dressed as an irritating rash and then seized upon by a man dressed as a tube of Canesten.

I agreed to be the thrush but only if no one knew that it was me inside. I'm world-famous in West Bromwich so I thought that it would be novel to stroll around in front of 20-odd thousand people and not be recognised...

Read more @ Times Online

You may not agree with what he says, but he was someone covered, hidden in a crowd of 20,000 people.

One other thing to consider is that the North West is the place where Nick Griffin got elected as an MEP, so the views of the people you talk to are not necessarily non-prejudiced.

Sarkozy is attempting to bring French citizens together and increase his standing amongst them by demonising the "burka". He is attempting to shift the focus of French peoples from inherent social and economic problems, and upon his sorry self to a small religious minority. After many months in which French citizens have focused on the country’s economic unrest and instability, Sarkozy's targeting of muslim women in "burka" gives him a common cause with which to try and save his pathetic sinking political career. This is one of his last ditched attempts to try and increase his popularity and approval ratings as economic problems mount and the pressure to account to many angry and unemployed citizens is high.

Dont forget that Sarkozy's popularity ratings have been found to be poor in recent months and him and his party have been battling hard (even if it means targeting religious minorities) to try and win the European Elections and gain votes from the public - in the same way as the BNP have been here in the UK.

Hajjar

Omrow seems to confuse outdoor hiking equipment with the burqa, I don't think it's funny at all.
Many women wear these garments out of a conviction that it is sunnah, wajib or recommended.

As for Omrows allusions to the tent, i see no resemblance, but the ground pegs would do well to hold your tongue from insulting millions of sisters across the world who wear it for no other purpose than to please Allah.

I really don't understand why ppl are so against it.

Go about your business feel free not to wear it, no one is forcing you to wear it are they Omrow?

Why must you insult me and other sisters on your way?

I really don't care what anyone wears, we don't live in a shariah state and because of this i truly believe ppl can wear what they like. Like it or lump it. All i ask is a little respect, i duno i expect it from muslims at least, but ironically they are usually the first to insult and the last to defend sisters like me.

I did not insult you.

What I said was that it is France that calls burka a "tent".

I am for freedom of all women to be pious if they so choose.

I think you misunderstood my comment.

If you go back and read them again, you will see I was only exposing French hypocrisy.

Why would I speak against something beautiful which my Lord commanded?

Not just about niqab; hijabis have big problems in France too:

"Women in standard headscarves have been refused access to voting booths, driving lessons, barred from their own wedding ceremonies at town halls, ejected from university classes and in one case, a woman in a bank was not allowed to withdraw cash from her own account at the counter. This is clear discrimination by people who wrongly use the school law to claim that France is a secular state that doesn't allow headscarves in public places. It's utterly illegal and the courts rule in our favour," said Renee Le Mignot, co-president of the Movement Against Racism and for Friendship Between Peoples. "Our fear is that the current niqab debate is going to make this general discrimination worse."

assalamu alaikum,

i apologise Omrow for accusing you of saying something you didn't, i was in error. I'm very sorry.

TheRevivalEditor

All i ask is a little respect, i duno i expect it from muslims at least, but ironically they are usually the first to insult and the last to defend sisters like me.

i dont think any Muslims disrespects sisters wearing niqab. Omrow is just a fool so ignore him. I dont think if anyone has a different opinion to wearing the niqab that it should be seen as an insult.i may disagree with wearing niqab in the west just as scholars like shaykh nuh keller, hamza yusuf, shaykh salim ghisa etc do but like them i hav eBIG respect for women who wear it as it takes guts and strong faith to do it.

Sheikh Keller i respect him don't get me wrong, but have you read his position on the niqab it seems at odds. Whilst he supports the concept of the niqab, he does not encourage sisters to wear it in the uk, especially since they will find it more difficult in these lands, and it is not the norm here so women will be up for more abuse. But if sisters feel they can and are able, he supports this. But ironically i think it is jordan where he teaches a lot (correct me if i'm wrong, i remember reading all this on masud website)he says since its the norm there women are obligated to wear it? So why does the obligation change from country to country. if it's considered a recommended act i guess a woman could pick and choose and follow the method the Sheikh has suggested. But if the woman believes it is wajib or even fard then she won't have such a choice western country or not she will feel obligated to wear it right?

Also one more thing about the Sheikh, regardless of country, if a sister wishes to speak to the sheikh one to one, she must attend with a niqab on that is his condition. I've read this account a few times on several sites, and it seems to be written by himself? I'll try to locate the source if you'd like.

Regarding your arguments about security in banks etc, well i've discussed this before. Most sisters are willing to remove the niqab for security checks i.e at banks, airports and other important buildings. This is permitted under islamic laws.

But like someone already said France is a western country they have a right to live how they choose, if they want to ban cultural and religious dress they can. But i don't believe they should be permitted to ban just muslim codes of dress that would be seen as discriminatory surely? First the headscarf now the niqab? Have other faith groups been banned from donning their articles of faith i.e turbans, Sikh dagger (i don't know the name for it). While you're at it ban all cultural dress only western clothing no salwars, or saris, or ethnic wear of any sort.

salaam

ermmm... shocking article below by a Muslim:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1195052/Why-I-British-Muslim-…

Salaam

I think this, a quote from the Frank Skinner article, is the best way to sum up the situation:

Rigid rules that make no allowance for personal choice are more suited to the Taleban than to one of Europe's great democracies.

TheRevivalEditorsalaam

ermmm... shocking article below by a Muslim:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1195052/Why-I-British-Muslim-…

Not entirely shocking.

While guys can live with double standards in their lives (with others even if not accepting, then grudgingly allowing it), that is less possible for women.

If a Muslim guy goes against Islam in something, it is looked down upon, frowned, but its his choice at the end of the day. If a girl does the same thing, it is the end of the world - they simply have to comply.

What that hypocrisy causes is for the girls/women to have to choose a side - and the demands placed on them may force them away from Islam as a whole if they are uncomfortable with one thing, struggle to follow one aspect of it.

Idealism has its price, but most people seem to be able to ignore it.

EDIT - created a poll on this matter: Is "holier than though"ness pushing people from Islam?