You are not overstepping the mark, been it has been done before.

The things about beliefs is no-one is gonna (or even should!) change over a few posts on forums.

As long as you are happy with your own beliefs, and do not take swipe's at others, the best thing to do is sit down with a scholar you are happy with, and get the scholar to explain what you have doubts over.

As an example, there is no debate over Ilm ul Ghayb. Both sides believe in EXACTLY the same thing. But they use varying definitions, which make it out that there is actually an argument. With Tawassul, most scholars accept it, and accept the hadith proof. however here, the Salafies reject it and call it shirk. Med, whilst accepting it, places an artificial limitation on it. And if we go to hadith, Med refuses to discuss hadith, as he (quite rightly) says we are not muhaddith.

Med; If someone insults the sahaaba, follow that hadith. The shia I know did not insult the Sahaaba. Admittedly, I didnot grill him on it, but he was not concealing anything either. We never discussed the martyrdom of Imam Hussain, or the caliphate in any great detail, so i may be mistaken. But what i heard was good.

"Admin" wrote:

You are not overstepping the mark, been it has been done before.

The things about beliefs is no-one is gonna (or even should!) change over a few posts on forums.

As long as you are happy with your own beliefs, and do not take swipe's at others, the best thing to do is sit down with a scholar you are happy with, and get the scholar to explain what you have doubts over.

As an example, there is no debate over Ilm ul Ghayb. Both sides believe in EXACTLY the same thing. But they use varying definitions, which make it out that there is actually an argument. With Tawassul, most scholars accept it, and accept the hadith proof. however here, the Salafies reject it and call it shirk. Med, whilst accepting it, places an artificial limitation on it. And if we go to hadith, Med refuses to discuss hadith, as he (quite rightly) says we are not muhaddith.

Med; If someone insults the sahaaba, follow that hadith. The shia I know did not insult the Sahaaba. Admittedly, I didnot grill him on it, but he was not concealing anything either. We never discussed the martyrdom of Imam Hussain, or the caliphate in any great detail, so i may be mistaken. But what i heard was good.

k.

I think the above post is a good one to end this discussion on?

ok.

The case of the bedouin Sahabi radhiyallahu anh.

The Sahabi while laying down on the roof of his house at night cast his gaze upon the start studded sky and excalimed:

[color=green]Ya ayyuhas samaa'i wan nujuum! Inna laka Rabba wa Khaaliqa.[/color]

After which He implores

[color=green]Allahum maghfirlee[/color]

The next day the Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam enquires of him,

[color=olive]What ibaadah did you perform last night on the basis of which ALLAH Ta'ala has forgiven you?[/color]
The Bedouin radhiyallahu anh replied,

I, upon casting my gaze upon the night sky said,

[color=green]O Heavens and Stars! Truly you have a Lord and Creator. Oh ALLAH forgive me![/color]

Mashallah.

"Med" wrote:

I requoted the noble hadeeth.

"Med" wrote:

"A group will emerge soon who will abuse my Sahabah and endeavor to find faults in them. As such you should not keep their company, nor dine with them nor have marriage relationships with them from either side. You should not greet them either. The curse of Allah be upon them". [Ghuniyat-ut-Tualibeen, Chapter Ummahat-ul-Momineen (Azmat-e-Sahabah), Page#164]

when u quoted it the first time, u said ud find the actual reference, please provide it (i.e. which Book of Ahadith, Volume, Hadith no. etc). (as i assume Ghuniyat-ut-Taulibeen is not an actual compilation of Ahadith).

JazakAllah Khair.

:shock:

Admin!! did u give in and delete the 'Omrow' thread?!!

:shock:

no

I just deleted todays posts.

then how come i got this message when i clicked refresh:

Quote:

No posts exist for this topic

[img]http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/confused/confused0043.gif[/img]

summat fishy going on here....

when you clicked on link... it would say something like &start=5bazillion

since there are less then 5bazillion posts in the whole topic... they do not exist at that point

"Med" wrote:

"yuit" wrote:

That true and i agree with the above, but i remember my mate telling me about this pious person who used to live years ago in Bangladesh I think, basically he used to live in so much seclusion in ibadah of Allah swt, that on a rare journey out, he saw a woman and scream and ran away from her and enquire about a strange creature he saw too some of his companion. [b]I know this is a extreme case, but too me interaction with other is very important in islam[/b].

"yuit" wrote:

True, but don't you think that there is more reward for helping other, especially in today society where there loads of corruption, rather then staying in seclusion. So people who actually go out there and try to impact the society and help others are more praiseworthy as long as they fulfil their duty towards Allah swt, then people who may stay at home in ibadah in seclusion. I personally think it is the case.

"yuit" wrote:

But if funny how some people still love coming to this place of great fitnah.
.

1. No doubt your comments in quote 3 are referring to me

2. But your comments in quote 1 and 2 do not concur with this third quote.

You see the importance of staying and interacting etc rather then being in seclusion so I dont see the point of your last comment. If I were to leave then accroding to your own comments thats not the way forward.

Forget whether you agree with my methods and expression or not but me leaving aint in line with your own thinking.

My comment were no directed at anyone in particular more directed to people with a certin attitude. But i stand corrected, my intention was not to say go if you don't like this place. It just that for people who spend a awful lot of time here to much just to be educating us, there obviously a attraction here. I sure you don't come here to guide us, even though you probably tell yourself that, i think you just like everyone company here, but you just afraid to admit it to yourself.

I personally do agree with your stance on certain matters, but never with your agruments, as they based too much on emotion IMO. You also have a habit of belittling people who you disagree with, especially the sisters.

And the Prophet (peace be upon him) [also] said that: "It is enough of a sin for a person that he belittle his Brother." [Sahih Muslim]

I personally think that when muslims focus too much on what other muslims are doing and start attacking them, i believe they are tool for the enemy of islam. This article below will tell you why i think it the case. Think it about it, who interest are you really serving when you take the stance that you do.

Quote:

[size=18]"What Color Was The Dog?" [/size]

Why Muslims are in such a dire state today

Author Unknown

Once there was a community of Muslims who were small in number yet large in iman and strong in action. So much so that, the enemies of islam could not defeat them in battle even though they had the Muslims out numbered.
One day a young man from the enemies of islam pretended to enter into Islam and he went to the big sheik [learned man] in one part of the city and listened to his teaching of the Quran. The subject happened to be on the chapter of the Quran called Al Kahaf (the Cave, #18].

When the sheik completed his talk he offered a chance for the brothers present to ask some questions. When it came the turn of the enemy of islam, he asked the sheik the question:

“Sir, in the story of the ‘sleepers’ in the cave, there is mention of a dog. And I was wondering if I might inquire as to what color the dog might have been? I hope you don’t mind my asking, especially if it is something that maybe you don’t know the answer to.”

Immediately the sheik says to the young man, “That’s no problem at all, everyone should know that the dog was YELLOW.”

The young man said, “Are you sure? I mean, could it have been another color?”

“No.” replied the old sheik, “It was definitely YELLOW.” Once again the young man thanked him and when on his way.

The next night the young man went to the other side of town and sat in another gathering of knowledge and they too were discussing different things about verses in the Quran.

So when it came time for the teacher to give each person attending, the opportunity to ask a question, the young man raised his hand and then asked the question, “In the chapter about the “Cave”, the sleepers are mentioned in different numbers but each time there is a reference to their dog as being counted along with them. Now I was wondering whether or not anyone of knowledge has ever made any reference to what the color the dog might have been?”

The sheik immediately said, “Yes! The dog in this story in the Quran was BLACK.”

The young man was pleased and continued, “Sir, are you quite certain that the color of the dog mentioned in the story was BLACK?”

“Young man,” he quickly replied, “I’ll stake my reputation on that as a fact.”

“Thank you, sir.” Said the young man.

The next night the man posing as a Muslim went back to the first sheik and then when it came time for the questions and answers he raised his hand and asked, “Sheik, may Allah reward you for all your effort and knowledge and for sharing it with us. Could you maybe remind me about the answer to the question the other night about the color of the dog in the cave in Surah Al-Kahaf?” (Holy Quran: Chapter 18).

The sheik said, “There is no doubt whatsoever amongst the great scholars of Islam on this question. The dog was YELLOW. And anyone who says other than this has no knowledge.”

With that the young man spoke up again and said, “Sir, what would you say if someone else said that he would stake his reputation of being a scholar in Islam on the fact that the dog is not yellow, but rather that the dog is most certainly BLACK?”

The sheik quickly replied, “Then his reputation is not that of a scholar but one of a fool.”

Now the next time the man went to the sheik that was upholding the idea of the dog being BLACK, he told the sheik that the sheik on the other side of town was calling him names and saying that he had no knowledge of Islam and that for sure that the dog was YELLOW. The old sheik became angry and shouted, “You tell him, that I said he is the one without knowledge. I’m the one who graduated from the greatest of schools of Islam, while he is but a fool.”

The plan was working. Before long the community was divided into two groups. Each group was claiming that their sheik was the one with the correct answer.

Fighting broke out in the streets and the Muslims began attacking each other all over the city. Everyone became involved to the extent that there was not a single person who was excluded from this terrible situation. Screaming, shouting, hitting and fighting were everywhere.

And then it happened. The man went back out to his people and told them, “Let us go to fight them now. You will now find them most easy to defeat.”

And that is exactly what they did.

Good story and post yuit

BTW all of them are wrong-

The dog was pink

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

BTW all of them are wrong-

The dog was pink

:roll:

yuit; that story you posted read it on some site cant remember...can you

share the link plz.

Aasiyah the only reference I have managed to obtain is the one stated above.

I may not be of further assistance, unless I start going round to the 3/4 darul ulooms in our city and searching the libraries.

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

BTW all of them are wrong-

The dog was pink

LOL

"naj" wrote:

yuit; that story you posted read it on some site cant remember...can you

share the link plz.

Of course, I got it from the TheModernReligion site, they have group a bunch of article and named it Ugly Muslims (it my favourite set of articles, all brillant IMO), I can't link it for some reason due to the way the site is structured. But below is a link to the group of article from another site, You find it under Be Careful who you Call a Kafir and above The Pitfalls of Emotion, It call what colour was the Dog.

[url=http://www.bedfordmuslims.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&i... MUSLIMS[/url]

That is ok.

Some writers for books were also hadith collectors.

As an example, Imam Abu Hanifa also collected hadith, and was around much earlier than Imam Bukhari etc.

I have heard of the book, but cannot remember the author?

"yuit" wrote:

I sure you don't come here to guide us, even though you probably tell yourself that, i think you just like everyone company here, but you just afraid to admit it to yourself.

No you are right. I do not come here to guide for guidance is in ALLAHs Hand alone, no Nabi, no Sahabi, no Imam, or Mufti or Shaykh or Peer can guide whom he wills but ALLAH alone guides whom He Ta'ala wills.

I come here for a number of reasons. Yes I come to propagate what is truth, as I see it.

About the second line. Lol. You half right, I dont like EVERYONES company but some people#s (not just one) posts I do find interesting. So yes, beyond expectation some people here I do enjoy communicating with, even if at times their stance infuriates me.

jazaks.. yuit

Med; You have taken the first step to admitting the truth.

For you The Revival Forums are like crack cocaine.

You know its wrong, ut you gotta take one more dose!

You are an addict.

And I am the dealer.

:twisted:

The Ulama of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah believe that the Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam is ALIVE in His Grave.

But the Imam-worshippers have a habit of lying. Infact . . .

Imam Shafi'ee:

[color=green]I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Raafidite Shi'tes.[/color]

And on another occasion:

[color=green]Narrate knowledge from everyone you meet except the Raafidite Shi'es, because they invent Ahadeeth and adopt them as part of their religion.[/color]

Both quoted in Minhaaj as-Sunnah an Nabawiyyah.

ALSO in the same book

Imam Malik:

[color=green]Do not speak to them nor narrate from them, for surely they are LIARS.[/color]

"Admin" wrote:

Med; You have taken the first step to admitting the truth.

For you The Revival Forums are like crack cocaine.

You know its wrong, ut you gotta take one more dose!

You are an addict.

And I am the dealer.

:twisted:

LOOOOOOOOOOOL

May ALLAH make you smile in the paradise.

Ameen.

And reciprocated for us all.

"Med" wrote:

I may not be of further assistance, unless I start going round to the 3/4 darul ulooms in our city and searching the libraries.

can u not just ask your shaykh? :?

Admin, as far as i'm aware, 'Ghuniyat-ut-Taulibeen' is not a compilation of Ahadith. the author of the book quoted this 'hadeeth', and this is where Med is quoting it from. but what of the ACTUAL reference - narrators, book, volume, etc etc.

i'm sorry if i'm coming across as pernickety here, but one cant take matters of Ahadith and Quran lightly, as no doubt Med will agree.

Yes shouldnt take matters of Quran and Ahadeeth lightly.

You mention asking Ustadji?

Er. . . I cant just out of the blue ask random questions. Everything has its time and place and its not easy for me to open my mouth in front of my Ustadji. InshaALLAH when the time is right I will ask.

"Med" wrote:

You mention asking Ustadji?

Er. . . I cant just out of the blue ask random questions. Everything has its time and place and its not easy for me to open my mouth in front of my Ustadji. InshaALLAH when the time is right I will ask.

lol i guess itd be kinda random if u asked in the middle of a class or summat, i meant like after the class is over or something, just say u had a Qs and ask him like that, in private.

Yesterday we had a lesson and at the end one of the students at madrassah was told to give a speech to the other students, with our Teachers observing. The topic given was Zahir o Batin.

MashaALLAH it was excellent. The stident was very very effective speaker, may ALLAH bless him in his speech ameen.

He was talking about how in shariah both the external and internal are vitally important and how one effects the others. The external condition has effect on the heart, the hearts condition is expressed in the external conidition.

Part of the speech was about how when it comes to worldly things we place importance on the external matters and will not be convinced of a thing being good on the inside if the external is diseased or defective. He gave one example of fruit, how if upon oath a seller says the blemished skin of a fruit has no bearing on the fruit itself and that the fruit is perfectly ripe and healthy on the inside, we wont even consider buying the fruit despite the guarantess on oath that the seller will give.

The other example he gave I found amusing.

A young man is betrothed to some girl and shortly before the marriage he comes to find out that her ear is cut off but this in no way affects her sense of hearing which is totally intact. She is definitely not deaf. Also that she has a squint but is not deprived of her sight. Knowing these facts to be true, will he still be prepared to marry her? The members of his household can sing a million praises about her inner condition, that she is extremely pious, she is an ALLAH Wali, but this young man will not in the least be prepared to entertain the though of marrying her. And this is the condition of people when it comes to worldly things but with deen its a totally different matter.

I found that story quite amusing.

"Aasiyah" wrote:

"Med" wrote:

You mention asking Ustadji?

Er. . . I cant just out of the blue ask random questions. Everything has its time and place and its not easy for me to open my mouth in front of my Ustadji. InshaALLAH when the time is right I will ask.

lol i guess itd be kinda random if u asked in the middle of a class or summat, i meant like after the class is over or something, just say u had a Qs and ask him like that, in private.

Lol. Like I said before, it is extremely hard on me to open my mouth infront of Ustadji.

I think I come across as a mouthy in here, but when with my Ustadji Im almost dum.b. I will ask the question at a correct time inshaALLAH.

"Med" wrote:

Lol. Like I said before, it is extremely hard on me to open my mouth infront of Ustadji.

I think I come across as a mouthy in here, but when with my Ustadji Im almost dum.b. I will ask the question at a correct time inshaALLAH.

ok. inshaAllah i will ask a Mufti too.

"Med" wrote:

Lol. Like I said before, it is extremely hard on me to open my mouth infront of Ustadji.

I would advise you to lose that habit.

Its a very bad habit.

You should never shy away from asking a question which may help you learn. There is no shame in religion. And no scholar would (or could) see any insult in a genuine question.