kenza wrote:

[al-Noor 24:31]
you saying hijab isn't fardh is like me saying salat isn't fardh...when actually deep down in our hearts we all know it is!!!!

fiamanillah kenza

some people interpret the ayat differently because its not exactly clear that we have to wear scarf so i guess saying not wearing headscarf is like not praying is not the same thing

proud_hijabi wrote:

kenza wrote:

[al-Noor 24:31]
you saying hijab isn't fardh is like me saying salat isn't fardh...when actually deep down in our hearts we all know it is!!!!

fiamanillah kenza

some people interpret the ayat differently because its not exactly clear that we have to wear scarf so i guess saying not wearing headscarf is like not praying is not the same thing

salaam,
it is very clear that we have to wear a hijab....Allah talaa has given us many examples of it being fardh!!!!
i am aware of the fact that this ayah is has been interpreted in different ways....but this doesn't in any way prove that the hijab isn't fardh.......
there are many ahadeeth and quranic verses to support the hijab being fardh....never have i seen one to disprove it....and i doubt that anybody else has either!!!

fiamanillah

But people may define the "hijab" in different ways. Notice how you had to add loads of description in the brackets? That was a definition of the terms.

I am not saying that you are wrong (because you are not), but it does not help matters. I doubt the original sister was talking exclusively Islam. More what she wanted. Living at home does not necessarily mean a more Islamic upbringing. It has a different set of issues and their importance probably varies from person to person.

kenza wrote:

How about moving in with a friend?
About headscarves, they shouldn't be forced onto anyone, but "There is no compulsion in religion," (2:256) as the Quran points out.
But most people who wear it love it, becuase it forced others to look at their personality rather than their attractiveness, and that's great bonus.

sorry this being my first post and me being a new member,BUT having read this topic i have been a bit puzzled over some of the points made......

first to give a reply to the actual topic...
if we are sisters that live with our Muslim families then I don't see why we would move out of that environment, to move in to a place where we won't have the protection of a mahram!

the next thing i would like to say is regarding the hijab.....yes it's true that ''there is no compulsion in religion'' however how can you use that ayah of the quran when Allah talaa has already told us in the quran to wear our hijabs?
“And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer palms of hands or one eye or dress like veil, gloves, head cover, apron), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband’s fathers, or their sons, or their husband’s sons, or their brothers or their brother’s sons, or their sister’s sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islam), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of feminine sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allah to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful”

[al-Noor 24:31]
you saying hijab isn't fardh is like me saying salat isn't fardh...when actually deep down in our hearts we all know it is!!!!

fiamanillah kenza

When he quoted the ayat saying there's no compulsion in religion, I don't think he meant that we can pick and choose parts of Islam that we want to do/ not do.

I THINK he meant that because we are all answerable to Allah (swt) in the end, so we shouldn't force people to wear hijab, or pray, or give zakat or whatever, because it is THEIR choice, and Allah (swt) will judge them on their own merits.

Something like that, anyway.

Wearing hijab is WAY lower in importance than completing all our daily prayers, btw.

@ Kenza - welcome. Should have said that earlier. Feel free to make an intro via a blog post or on the hello new members forum topic if you want to.

@ Ya'qub:

Wearing hijab is WAY lower in importance than completing all our daily prayers, btw.

I was about to type "really?" and then I remembered that Salaah is a pillar of Islam. But still, how do people judge the importance of such things?

You wrote:

@ Kenza - welcome. Should have said that earlier. Feel free to make an intro via a blog post or on the hello new members forum topic if you want to.

@ Ya'qub:

Wearing hijab is WAY lower in importance than completing all our daily prayers, btw.

I was about to type "really?" and then I remembered that Salaah is a pillar of Islam. But still, how do people judge the importance of such things?

AFAIK:

fardh deeds are put in order of importance, and there are things which cancel out certain fardh actions.

An obvious example is if you are going to starve you don't have to eat halal food.

If you are in a burning building or something, you can safely leave even if you are not covering your aura.

Some fardh deeds CAN'T be cancelled out - e.g. not associating partners with Allah (swt), or similar.

My housemate gave me a detalied explanation, twas very interesting, but I don't want to say too much in case I haven't understood it fully.

One thing he said, though, was if someone leaves ONE fardh act, that doesn't meant they should leave other fardh acts.

E.G. If someone doesn't wear hijab, they SHOULD still pray, and if someone doesn't pray, they SHOULD still wear hijab.

The first wouldn't be as sinful as the second.

But we're all sinful! So may Allah (swt) accept all our good deeds, however small they are, and multiply them in value and use them to cover over all our many sins. Ameen!

Ameen.

You wrote:

But people may define the "hijab" in different ways. Notice how you had to add loads of description in the brackets? That was a definition of the terms.

I am not saying that you are wrong (because you are not), but it does not help matters. I doubt the original sister was talking exclusively Islam. More what she wanted. Living at home does not necessarily mean a more Islamic upbringing. It has a different set of issues and their importance probably varies from person to person.

salaam,

OK if you read the ayaah you will see that the brackets are there to show you who you do and don't need to wear the hijab in front of!
yes people define the hijab in different ways.....you can see that by just going out,but you have to ask what way is the right way which opinion is following the quran and sunnah.
we as muslimahs are aware of the FACT that we have to cover our bodies loosely and are allowed to show only our hands and face!!!
if sisters don't want to wear their hijabs fine that's their choice.....but it is the wrong choice...and they have to think will me not wearing it effect me in anyway on yam al qiama?!
fiamanillah kenza

kenza wrote:

How about moving in with a friend?
About headscarves, they shouldn't be forced onto anyone, but "There is no compulsion in religion," (2:256) as the Quran points out.
But most people who wear it love it, becuase it forced others to look at their personality rather than their attractiveness, and that's great bonus.

sorry this being my first post and me being a new member,BUT having read this topic i have been a bit puzzled over some of the points made......

first to give a reply to the actual topic...
if we are sisters that live with our Muslim families then I don't see why we would move out of that environment, to move in to a place where we won't have the protection of a mahram!

the next thing i would like to say is regarding the hijab.....yes it's true that ''there is no compulsion in religion'' however how can you use that ayah of the quran when Allah talaa has already told us in the quran to wear our hijabs?
“And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer palms of hands or one eye or dress like veil, gloves, head cover, apron), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband’s fathers, or their sons, or their husband’s sons, or their brothers or their brother’s sons, or their sister’s sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islam), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of feminine sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allah to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful”

[al-Noor 24:31]
you saying hijab isn't fardh is like me saying salat isn't fardh...when actually deep down in our hearts we all know it is!!!!

fiamanillah kenza

Salam Alaykum, Kenza welcome on board.

Firsltly, what's wrong with moving away from home, to work or study, where we don't have Maharam with us, but say some other good friends?
And secondly, I didn't say that Hijab isn't compulsory, it is, women have to dress modestly and cover up except what's apparent, which means you can show your eyes, face and hands and stuff like that. I mentioned some of the reasons for that.
What I actually said was that Hijab shouldn't be FORCED on anyone, you tell me, if hijab is forced isn't it likely to be counter productive? Surely it's better to encourage hijab which is Fard, rather than push it on someone, I think you'll find that many people wear the hijab because they want to rather than because it was forced on them.

There's no point, I think, in saying you'll go to hell and trying to scare people, because that'll just push them away, it's alot better to encourage what's compulsory and point out the benefits.

The Lamp wrote:

kenza wrote:

How about moving in with a friend?
About headscarves, they shouldn't be forced onto anyone, but "There is no compulsion in religion," (2:256) as the Quran points out.
But most people who wear it love it, becuase it forced others to look at their personality rather than their attractiveness, and that's great bonus.

sorry this being my first post and me being a new member,BUT having read this topic i have been a bit puzzled over some of the points made......

first to give a reply to the actual topic...
if we are sisters that live with our Muslim families then I don't see why we would move out of that environment, to move in to a place where we won't have the protection of a mahram!

the next thing i would like to say is regarding the hijab.....yes it's true that ''there is no compulsion in religion'' however how can you use that ayah of the quran when Allah talaa has already told us in the quran to wear our hijabs?
“And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer palms of hands or one eye or dress like veil, gloves, head cover, apron), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband’s fathers, or their sons, or their husband’s sons, or their brothers or their brother’s sons, or their sister’s sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islam), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of feminine sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allah to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful”

[al-Noor 24:31]
you saying hijab isn't fardh is like me saying salat isn't fardh...when actually deep down in our hearts we all know it is!!!!

fiamanillah kenza

Salam Alaykum, Kenza welcome on board.

Firsltly, what's wrong with moving away from home, to work or study, where we don't have Maharam with us, but say some other good friends?
And secondly, I didn't say that Hijab isn't compulsory, it is, women have to dress modestly and cover up except what's apparent, which means you can show your eyes, face and hands and stuff like that. I mentioned some of the reasons for that.
What I actually said was that Hijab shouldn't be FORCED on anyone, you tell me, if hijab is forced isn't it likely to be counter productive? Surely it's better to encourage hijab which is Fard, rather than push it on someone, I think you'll find that many people wear the hijab because they want to rather than because it was forced on them.

There's no point, I think, in saying you'll go to hell and trying to scare people, because that'll just push them away, it's alot better to encourage what's compulsory and point out the benefits.

salaam,
as fare as i know a muslimah can not be without a mahram.....if a sister wants to move out well then that is her choice but is it not putting her in some kind of danger?
if it's about studying and her not being able to stay at home....then allahu alam

kenza wrote:

The Lamp wrote:

kenza wrote:

How about moving in with a friend?
About headscarves, they shouldn't be forced onto anyone, but "There is no compulsion in religion," (2:256) as the Quran points out.
But most people who wear it love it, becuase it forced others to look at their personality rather than their attractiveness, and that's great bonus.

sorry this being my first post and me being a new member,BUT having read this topic i have been a bit puzzled over some of the points made......

first to give a reply to the actual topic...
if we are sisters that live with our Muslim families then I don't see why we would move out of that environment, to move in to a place where we won't have the protection of a mahram!

the next thing i would like to say is regarding the hijab.....yes it's true that ''there is no compulsion in religion'' however how can you use that ayah of the quran when Allah talaa has already told us in the quran to wear our hijabs?
“And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer palms of hands or one eye or dress like veil, gloves, head cover, apron), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband’s fathers, or their sons, or their husband’s sons, or their brothers or their brother’s sons, or their sister’s sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islam), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of feminine sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allah to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful”

[al-Noor 24:31]
you saying hijab isn't fardh is like me saying salat isn't fardh...when actually deep down in our hearts we all know it is!!!!

fiamanillah kenza

Salam Alaykum, Kenza welcome on board.

Firsltly, what's wrong with moving away from home, to work or study, where we don't have Maharam with us, but say some other good friends?
And secondly, I didn't say that Hijab isn't compulsory, it is, women have to dress modestly and cover up except what's apparent, which means you can show your eyes, face and hands and stuff like that. I mentioned some of the reasons for that.
What I actually said was that Hijab shouldn't be FORCED on anyone, you tell me, if hijab is forced isn't it likely to be counter productive? Surely it's better to encourage hijab which is Fard, rather than push it on someone, I think you'll find that many people wear the hijab because they want to rather than because it was forced on them.

There's no point, I think, in saying you'll go to hell and trying to scare people, because that'll just push them away, it's alot better to encourage what's compulsory and point out the benefits.

salaam,
as fare as i know a muslimah can not be without a mahram.....if a sister wants to move out well then that is her choice but is it not putting her in some kind of danger?
if it's about studying and her not being able to stay at home....then allahu alam

Yes the danger has to be thought about, but if she is with good friends then?

The Lamp wrote:

kenza wrote:

The Lamp wrote:

kenza wrote:

How about moving in with a friend?
About headscarves, they shouldn't be forced onto anyone, but "There is no compulsion in religion," (2:256) as the Quran points out.
But most people who wear it love it, becuase it forced others to look at their personality rather than their attractiveness, and that's great bonus.

sorry this being my first post and me being a new member,BUT having read this topic i have been a bit puzzled over some of the points made......

first to give a reply to the actual topic...
if we are sisters that live with our Muslim families then I don't see why we would move out of that environment, to move in to a place where we won't have the protection of a mahram!

the next thing i would like to say is regarding the hijab.....yes it's true that ''there is no compulsion in religion'' however how can you use that ayah of the quran when Allah talaa has already told us in the quran to wear our hijabs?
“And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer palms of hands or one eye or dress like veil, gloves, head cover, apron), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband’s fathers, or their sons, or their husband’s sons, or their brothers or their brother’s sons, or their sister’s sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islam), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of feminine sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allah to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful”

[al-Noor 24:31]
you saying hijab isn't fardh is like me saying salat isn't fardh...when actually deep down in our hearts we all know it is!!!!

fiamanillah kenza

Salam Alaykum, Kenza welcome on board.

Firsltly, what's wrong with moving away from home, to work or study, where we don't have Maharam with us, but say some other good friends?
And secondly, I didn't say that Hijab isn't compulsory, it is, women have to dress modestly and cover up except what's apparent, which means you can show your eyes, face and hands and stuff like that. I mentioned some of the reasons for that.
What I actually said was that Hijab shouldn't be FORCED on anyone, you tell me, if hijab is forced isn't it likely to be counter productive? Surely it's better to encourage hijab which is Fard, rather than push it on someone, I think you'll find that many people wear the hijab because they want to rather than because it was forced on them.

There's no point, I think, in saying you'll go to hell and trying to scare people, because that'll just push them away, it's alot better to encourage what's compulsory and point out the benefits.

salaam,
as fare as i know a muslimah can not be without a mahram.....if a sister wants to move out well then that is her choice but is it not putting her in some kind of danger?
if it's about studying and her not being able to stay at home....then allahu alam

Yes the danger has to be thought about, but if she is with good friends then?

but good friends don't constitute as a mahram do they.
even if you need to go away to study....there is always a way to work around it!!!!

The Lamp wrote:

Ya'qub wrote:

The Lamp wrote:

Oh yeah, those that do wear it anyway, prominent ones include Yvonne Ridley, Salma Yaqoob amongst others.

If it means people focus on intelligence rather than beauty, how come I find Salma Yaqoob stunningly beautiful?

(and I don't mean just cos of the name!)

I imagine you don't look at Salma Yaqoob, and think yummm! Astagfirullah if you do!
Hijabis are less likey to be sexually harassed and people are less likely to make suggestive comments to them, doesn't give them immunity, nothing does but somethings increase your "endurance" or shield.

Yea I guess
but not always

I wear a headscarf when im on my way home cos I dont like being harrassed by weirdos in my area
but even when I wear it, there r still weirdos about
so it doesnt always work
but in most cases I guess its less likely youll be harrassed wearing one

Kenza, where does it say women can't walk around without a mahram?

You wrote:

The Lamp wrote:

But most people who wear it love it, becuase it forced others to look at their personality rather than their attractiveness, and that's great bonus.

Is that really true?

no.

Noor wrote:

You wrote:

The Lamp wrote:

But most people who wear it love it, becuase it forced others to look at their personality rather than their attractiveness, and that's great bonus.

Is that really true?

no.

I think it depends on who is wearing it.
If someone is wearing hijab for allah they're more likely to love it because they would feel they had a special relationship witth allah because they were following his orders for him and would love it more plus what The Lamp wrote.
But if smeone is wearing it because of their parents made them then they would be more likely to hate it because they probably didn't want to wear it.