"The environmentalist movement is little more than racists..."

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Interesting you have again skipped all my questions - I can only assume the answers to be in the negative as you've not answered them.

You wrote:
Do ANY of the different understandings change the fact that the prophets would be prophets then? No.

And herein is your problem.

"the prophets WOULD BE prophets..."

What does that mean? Destined to be and Would be are interchangable. Neither word appears in the verse literally as the verse says a prophet will come...

A prophet will come... when? how will we know he is a prophet? when will he be a prophet?

The mufassireen make clear in their explanations that none of these questions are answered in this verse, but you are concluding that a prophet is a prophet before he receives revelation - simply because Allah mentions a prophet will come in the future.

A basic semantic error exposed by a linguistic analysis which appears in tafsir - or rather, tafsirs that are substantive and summary in their content of which one of the best examples is Razi.

you are jumping on a turn of phrase there. It is not talking about the future. I will rephrase: "Do ANY of the different understandings change the fact that the prophets were prophets then?"

The verse calls them prophets. if you get creative, you can say it was referring to the nations of prophets, or the offspring of prophets or other people linked to prophets. Either way, it does not dispute that that they were prophets.

Happy?

In my last post I had also added:

However we can assume that this was not after the deaths of the people, whoever they were, as then asking them to follow someone who will be sent to earth later on if they are alive in his time will be illogical. So that leaves before birth, at some point. Unless you are now going to argue that this happens during a persons life and that the verse is not talking about the past...

that should clinch it.

you have again inserted words like soul, mohammed etc into the text which are not there

Muhammad (saw). Not using the correct salutations annoys other members who put considerably more effort into reading your posts that I do and wonder how could a Muslim address the prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam (Peace and Blessings be upon him) without the required measures.

Secondly, I did not insert the word. The translation on this site currently is from Qari Qaribullah and even in that I am sure the words souls are not mentioned, but the prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam (Peace and Blessings be upon him) is mentioned in brackets to indicate which messenger the covenant is about. but even this is going too far into the verse, the details of the covenant are unimportant - the important thing is that there was a covenant and that covers my point.

(Why wouldn't the prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam (Peace and Blessings be upon him) be there? are you saying that he was not a prophet? the others were prophets before they were sent to earth, but prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam (Peace and Blessings be upon him) you are singling out for special treatment as not a prophet at that point?)

Then there is also the hadith that was mentioned, where you had decided to add the word "destined" when it did not exist in the text.

You claim to be one that is willing to admit flaw and move on, but your actions show otherwise.

The mufassireen make clear in their explanations that none of these questions are answered in this verse, but you are concluding that a prophet is a prophet before he receives revelation - simply because Allah mentions a prophet will come in the future.

No, but because the verse mentions that it is talking about prophets (or their people), and what was said to them. The question of when the prophet will be sent is irrelevant - you keep going forward into the later bits, but the bit that is relevant to this discussion is "And when Allah took the covenant of the Prophets" - anything later about what was in the covenant is irrelevant to this discussion because that covers other things and the main point is already proven here and not contradicted by the rest.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

//No, but because the verse mentions that it is talking about prophets (or their people), and what was said to them. //

You seem to be under the impression that a covenant was taken from ALL the prophets when they were souls and thus mohammed was a prophet.

Where on earth do you get that understanding from?

hmd wrote:
//No, but because the verse mentions that it is talking about prophets (or their people), and what was said to them. //

You seem to be under the impression that a covenant was taken from ALL the prophets when they were souls and thus mohammed was a prophet.

Where on earth do you get that understanding from?

From the verse. It calls them prophets. From Tafsir Ibn Kathir. From also your explanations which do not deny the matter that is being discussed.

I will be kind and show you how you are ignoring the point in order to continue a discussion:

Statement:

The water in the reservoir is cold

Me (You):

See, there is water in the reservoir!

you (hmd/Anon1/others):

How can you say tehre is water in the reservoir? Does it tell you what temperature the water is at? No it doesn't, how dare you suggest there is water in the reservoir LOL

Now answer me these questions, all of them, in order:

1. What is the temperature of the water?
2. Is it collected rain water, river water or is it from some other source?
3. Has the level increased or decreased since yesterday?
4. Is the reservoir base lining natural or made of cement?

See, you cannot answer those questions, THERE IS NO WATER IN THE RESEVOIR, I REST MY CASE.

Totally ludicrous.

I have banned "hmd", "abcdef" and "a2938969" that signed up later.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

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