Yes - Islam is not pacifist and allows for violence in certain circumstances.

However, this allowance has the aim of minimising chaos/violence.

Non-violence is a good goal but its not realistic and sometimes etc oppression has to be challenged.

Saying that, that does not make islam violent. Just real.

allowing to be walked over - non violence to the extent that if someone is committing violence you are still unprepared to challenge it.

i think Islam isnt violent because you're suppose to try EVERY SINGLE OTHER way before coming to violence, violence/war is always the last resort.

and even when Muslims DO go to war, we're not suppose to harm crops, children, women and properties. We're suppose to look after POW's, feed them, give them a roof etc... and we're suppose to stop fighting as soon as the opposition wants to. And we're suppose to use similar warfare.

Muslims shouldn't start anything violent. We're pacifist but we aren't going to stand there while we get walked all over. In Islam revenge is allowed but its better not to. If you're tolerant, God will be with you.

and obviously the main argument everyone uses "Islam means Peace" which is doesn't..."Salaam" means peace, but they've got the same root and i'm not going to go argue with someone because they've said that.

another point, Islam's got ways to deal with Anger, anger often results in violence, having anger management in a religion = the religion cant be violent.

my opinions, don't eat me if you disagree... (i'm pretty sure cannibalism isn't allowed in Islam...that would be too violent)

s.b.f wrote:

Do you think Islam can be regarded as violent?

tell me any nation or religion that is not violent.
Great Satan America has nukes and still wants to disarm muslims. its not going to work. ofcourse muslims believe in Jihad. Allah orders us to smash kafir balls if they invade our countries. which is what Israel got in Lebanon in 2006.
Israel tried to destroy muslims. it only managed to murder 1000 innocent muslim women and children.
God curse Israelis. Israelis are efficient killers like Nazis. BBC news said after all the destructions and bloodshed by Israel, Hezbollah still gave Israel a bloody nose.

Malik u r so so annoying

take a chill pill

too much hate is not good for the soul
I hope ppl dont regard u as a typical Muslim because you give us a bad name

I think Islam CAN be regarded as violent
im not saying it IS
but it can be regarded as violent if u read vertain verses without knowing the context etc

s.b.f wrote:

otherwise...blargh.

this sound very bad, i think we should always make sure its the right temp.. =/

The simple answer is yes!

Sorry to say this and upset anyone who holds the view that Islam is misunderstood, but a growing portion of the world is coming to the conclusion that Islam is a violent and backwards ideology!

the growing numbers of the English Defence League (EDL) indicate that there is growing resentment against Muslims, noted western scholars openly decry the Muslim world as medieval. There is serious talk about the immigration from Muslim countries and how Islam needs to be reformed.

However, opinions are opinions. facts are facts!

# It is a fact that former Muslims live under the threat of death for being apostates.
# It is a fact that critics of Islam are met with death threats which warrant protection.
# It is a fact that honour killings are a serious problem.

I could go on and on, but need I list violence from Muslims which has reached the newspapers and TV of people up and down this land? there is no need for any sort of PR exercise, what is needed is a serious and open discussion over these issues. Simply ignoring these issues is fueling anti Islamic groups such as the EDL.

if you are looking at an outsiders view, then yes islam can be regarded as violent. i initially said no but now i think about it were not talking about what we think Islam is because yes we know that it is a religion of peace etc so we cant be biased in saying that it is not regarded as violent to some people just because we are muslims and we are defending our religion. So you cant blame people that think it can be violent because it is a sad reality that for some muslims (which is a small minority) they live islam by using violence so as a whole islam will be judged according to that.

Even as an outsiders view, it has to be taken out of context or be lacking in knowledge to have that view really.

While "Tread Softly" mentioned in a previous discussion how the Qur'an allows violence while the Testaments are more peaceful and focus on love, that is simply untrue.

While there is mention of violence in the qur'an it is also tempered by restrictions such as to stop fighting if the opponent stops while stories in the bible have no qualms of giving no quarters and slaying everyone.

The growing number of the EDL have been at a time of economic decline. Besides, racism and prejudice is not alien to the UK. Racism and violence has always existed and can be documented.

As for violence by Muslims, there is also potential violence by Non Muslims which the media has not focussed on - people being caught with huge arsenals of weaponry but since they were not muslims they were charged with neither terrorism nor were they publicly exposed as opposed to somone writing bad poetry being charged with terrorism and other students being held under terrorism legislation without charge and making front page news everywhere.

There is an issue of imbalance there along with one of focus. If you have a look, members of the EDL etc will probably come across as far far more violent and thuggish than the Muslim community.

First of all, allow me to say that I am an outsider. I am not a Muslim, I read my copy of the Qur'an simply as a reference book, not as a guide for living my life.

That said, I am also very aware of the true nature of the EDL as an anti Islamic group. They do have racists within their ranks, but they are not a racist group! they have a sikh division, they have black members. To simply label them as a far right racist group is akin to placing your head in the sand, as they are so much more than this and are growing in numbers.

It is easy to say that in times of financial crisis, we see a rise in far right groups, there is some truth to this but the EDL is different. They get their information from people such as Robert Spencer, Mark Steyn, Douglas Murray and Melanie Phillips, people who lecture on TV and in Universities (look these people up on YouTube if you are not aware of them). They organize themselves through the Internet, they pass along to each other links of videos or news reports that feed into their hatred. Do not underestimate them!

Every time their is a suicide attack, an honour killing, a death threat against a cartoonist, etc. People who know nothing about Islam or Muslims will be turned to sympathize with the EDL and their message. So in order to defeat the EDL, violence and the threat of violence needs to be removed from modern Islamic society, otherwise I see nothing but more hatred and anger from none Muslims towards Muslims..

There were suicide bombings in 2005... and then the EDL woke up in.... was it 2008 or 2009? 2009 I think.

I doubt there is any real correlation betweent he two.

It is simply a hate group and I have discussed things with them and they are extremist - their message is not one of tolerance.

More, the Guardian has recently done an undercover investigation of the EDL and shown it as what it really is. and yes, that does include racism in there. they can unite with other people currently because they have a bigger target, but don't expect them to not turn on others eventually. Anyone from ethnic minorities allying themselves to the EDL will at some point find out what doing a deal with the devil is all about.

In my discussions with them last year I mentioned how if they want extremists in the muslim community to be defeated, they should support mosques, but that idea was not one that was palatable to them.

POS the reason to support mosques to combat extremism is that generally the extreme messages are unrelated to mosques - they happen underground and passed around by people who the mosques have rightly called into question and not given a platform to.

But now this hate group wants to "fight extremism" by targetting the places that actually combat extremism.

Their idea of a moderate muslim is one that does not pray and one that does drink.

Yes, some actions of Muslims will inflame their actions, but at the same time those actions would not have happened if Britains leaders had not been trigger happy to start wars that costed many lives. AN ethical foriegn policy would have solved many problems.

Just a quick point - you are talking about Muslims while the actual original question is about Islam.

Mujch of the violence carried out currently by Muslims is not Islamic.

Even saying that, most of the violence even in places like the UK and europe is not done by Muslims. I think recent stats put it as 94% not being done by Muslims.

(in other places, the people suffering directly from the violence are also Muslims)

Yes, the EDL did come about after the Luton protests by members of al-Muhajiroun, but I doubt it began there. It began with years of growing resentment by certain members of society against Muslims, Luton was just the catalyst that spurned the EDL into being.

Prior to Luton there was a growing number of critics to Islam, all being met with threats and even actual violence (Denmark?). This was met with the powers that be doing almost nothing about it. The (now infamous) London protests by Muslims in London who waved banners that said things like "Behead those who insult Islam", went about their protest with little action by the authorities. No arrests were made, despite laws being obviously broken. These protests were met with worldwide media scrutiny and a mocking of the British justice system by american pundits. when geert wilders arrived in the UK, outside parliament there were Muslims demanding he be brought out to them for some "Islamic Justice".

The EDL grew out of all of this hate being spewed forth with the police folding their arms in ambivalence.

I had predicted the EDL about a year or so before they came into being with a discussion with a Muslim friend of mine, if memory serves me correct I said "Muslims are becoming the new Jews", I was referring t the rising hate against Muslims as there was in early 20th century Europe against Jews. And unless there is some serious change in this country, I see things getting worse.

As for the EDL having none white members, I think the old saying "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" works to describe how they work together. And simply labeling them as racist is useless. the Guardian did have an excellent video the other day, but I would still say the EDL are doing a good job with their PR as a few friends of mine do not regard them as racist or even as fascist. So to some people their PR machine is working!

You wrote:

Just a quick point - you are talking about Muslims while the actual original question is about Islam.

Mujch of the violence carried out currently by Muslims is not Islamic.

Even saying that, most of the violence even in places like the UK and europe is not done by Muslims. I think recent stats put it as 94% not being done by Muslims.

(in other places, the people suffering directly from the violence are also Muslims)

Muslims/Islam - to the every day man on the street they are the same.

Although it could be argued that there is no such thing as Islam! But instead Islams (many different versions). Yes I know that most of the violence committed in the UK is done by none Muslims, and if you use a figure like 94%, sure.. But that equals the size of the Muslim population (roughly speaking).

So it makes it equivalent to everyone else, meaning that it commits no greater violence than everyone else - and may in fact be far less all things considering. It is especially nowhere near the amount that some parts of the media and the EDL suggest.

Related posts on here:

• Know your enemy
• Are all Terrorists Muslims?
• All Terrorists are Muslims… Except the 94% that Aren’t

A part of the problem has also been an imbalance in how the powers have been used by the police. Muslims protesting against the Gaza incursion in early 2009 were kettled and then charged with terrorism offences while a person who had prepared for all out war and had stockpiles of weaponry - the largest haul since WW2 was not even charged with terrorism related offences, but with having explosives.

Similarly a Muslim woman was convicted of terrorism when she wrote some poetry while at work and a non Muslim who threatened to behead a Muslim a day was simply said to have mental health issues. (A muslim who also had mental health issues and had been referred to the police by the muslim community on the other hand was not given the same lenience and charged and convicted under terrorism offences.)

So certain crimes done by Muslims do have a greater visibility in the media and that may propel the hate of groups like EDL but it is misplaced and this is something that should worry a lot of people as it will eventually incite violence that could have been prohibited by using due diligence.

I think I am coming off as a bit of an apologist - something that I dislike.

and going back to the original question - since it is one of perception instead of fact, yes. People can percieve things differently.

I agree the anti terror laws should be repealed as they do no good in real terms, just remove peoples human rights and the right to peacefully protest.

And I think I read somewhere, that over the past 2 years in Europe, 99% of all terrorist acts committed or planned (and thwarted) were by (shock horror) none Muslims. Mainly ETA!

Islam is a religion of love and peace, of tolerance, of forgiveness and everything that is good, it is the religion Allah gave to humanity, it is perfect. There is nothing more perfect. violence is given as a last resort for humans as WE are not perfect. those who might regard Islam as violent lack knowledge and understanding. there really is no room for debate with those who have such limited understanding.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/may/29/muslims-must-...

muslims are not more violant then the evil israeli army. look at the body count of innocent people killed. jews have more inocent blood on their hands than palestinians group combined. its not too difficult to know who is worse, you just have to count the dead on each side.

in the same way also, america the great satan has more dead bodies to its credit than al qaeda. UN said for past 10 years since 9/11, america killed more innocent people than anyone else. i hate al qaeda but i hate great satan more. both are evil and immoral.

therefore, in terms of killings and oppression and immorality, the top worse are people are christian america, jewish israel, salafi al qaeda, wahhabi taliban, and finally stupid egyptians.

lanat on them all.

MakeMeRawr_7TeenF wrote:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/may/29/muslims-must-...

It is an interesting idea but not entirely doable IMO.

Going back a few years there were race riots on Oldham in the summer of 2001 which came a few months of weekly protests by the BNP and affiliated groups.

Yes people ignored them one week, the next week and the week after. But it was like being held hostage in your own town. Go shopping on the weekend and do gooders would stop and warn you that it is not safe for you here due to the presence of the protesters.

Eventually after weeks/months of ignoring them, people trying to live their lives, things spilt over and there was a night of rioting. (the asians who rioted got longer sentences than the non asians who may have been instrumental in provoking them as the judges wanted to warn people that rioting is not something to be tolerated...)

Obviously it CAN be regarded as violent since it IS commonly regarded as violent.

But I don't think it Should be seen as violent As historically, Islamic religious figures haven't been violent so it's unfair really. The Islamic way of living also, isn't centred around violence and ultimately it plays rather a small part in religion considering.

MakeMeRawr_7TeenF wrote:

Obviously it CAN be regarded as violent since it IS commonly regarded as violent.

But I don't think it Should be seen as violent As historically, Islamic religious figures haven't been violent so it's unfair really. The Islamic way of living also, isn't centred around violence and ultimately it plays rather a small part in religion considering.

The very founder of Islam was a warrior and a warlord! Historically, violence can be traced right from the very begginings of Islam. The Prophet Muhammad personally beheaded hundreds of men!

And although I am no expert in Islamic history I do recall the first violent dealings with the Islamic world and America. It was with what was called the Barbaby States (Maghreb) and was fought because of the white slave trade. This was the enslavement of Europeans and Americans by the Ottoman Corsairs, who in one night carted off the entire Irish town of Baltimore, Co Cork to be sold as slaves within the Ottoman Empire. When Thomas Jefferson went to negotiate peace with the Sultans of Maghreb he asked why American ships were attacked and kept as slaves as they had no quarrel with the Ottomans. He was told that it was authorised from wthin the Qur'an and was therefore the Sultans Islamic right, this pretty much lead to what would eventually become the Barbary Wars..

In fact the US Marines' Hymn alludes to these battles with the lines:

"From the Halls of Montezuma,
To the shores of Tripoli;
We fight our country's battles
In the air, on land, and sea"

There is indeed violence in Islams history!

first of all islam can not kill a woman who gives birth as a single ,wich shows violentity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!7

s.b.f wrote:

odafe wrote:

first of all islam can not kill a woman who gives birth as a single ,wich shows violentity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!7

what?

it doesnt make any sense whatsoevver

According to a Yougov poll:

• 58% associate Islam with extremism
• 50% associate Islam with terrorism
• 41% disagree or strongly disagree that Muslims have a positive impact on British society
• 69% believe that Islam encourages the repression of women