what do you think of nazim the nakshabandi
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I have no opinion of him - I have not heard his talks, read his lectures/articles (if they are in a language I can understand that is)...
...all that I know is that he is leader of the naqshbandi tareeqa and that some people love him, others hate him too.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I like Shaykh Nazim.
Gentleness and kindness were never a part of anything except that it made it beautiful, and harshness was never a part of anything except that it made it ugly.
Through cheating, stealing, and lying, one may get required results but finally one becomes
Can you tell us more? Why do you like him?
"Who is he and why should I care" sort of thing.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
though the question is not intended at me, nakshabandi is another branch of sufi, they claim their the real sufis while the others are just minor, nazim is their current so called pir, my views on him are no different to tahirul qadri, they naakshabandi are a step worse then the rest, they make up their own hadiths a innovation one of the worst to the highest point, they claim their the descendednts of muhammad SAW even though they are not, and they follow fabricated hadiths as if its sahih and their liers aswell. They twist and turn the verses of the quran and nazim as i said is their current so called pir who promotes all this nonsense they do, they nakshabandi think he can take them to jannah when he himself isnt known of whether he'll enter jahannam or not.
See, the thing I do not like about such answers is that they mention things without backing them up.
Youa ccused him of manufacturing ahadith. It should be easy to point out some samples.
btw, what do you think of "Mujaddid Alp Thaani"? From what I understand for the couple of centuries after him, All sunnis were sufi and that most groups accepted him as being right. That is until the Najdi phenomenon arrived.
I am only bringing him up because from what I remember of your previous "history" that you had cut and paste, there was no mention of him etc. It seemed to in a way end BEFORE his time, thus being inaccurate to the point of misleading.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Mujaddid Alp Thaani the only place he was famous was is india, he wasnt a well known figure around the world at the time like salauddin, abdul qadir jilani and many others, only in few countries was he recognized in, i dont know much about his work, what he believed in so i cant say anything about him, i dont know what his nakshabandi teachins were, whether it was flawed like today, as in bangladesh for example people are fans of shah jalal, they claim they do what shah jalal taught them, but in reality they dont follow a single teaching of shah jalal, as shah jalal taught them islam but they follow something else, situation may be the same here, so i cant say anything about Mujaddid Alp Thaani at the moment, to say every muslim were sufi is a 100% wrong statement, even when sufis were in the right path they werent in high numbers so to say at that time everyone were sufis is just plain nonsense, if it was interms of the original sufis were people who loved poems nasheed dhikr then the case would be different but even then sufi was never a thing which had high numbers, as for nazim his just minor figure of today, his corruption arent anything new from hsi groups his just continuing what his group have been doing for a while now, lieing and fabricating, so mentioning him would be pointless, besides in that same thread of mine last i checked i did mention some deviants who were worse then anzim so dont see the point of him being included. But if you do want me to post things about nazim and his works today then that isnt impossible for me to do i can do that. As for nazim and making false hadith, well his not the only one doing it today, their are many people who are taking hadiths today and changing its meaning, one of nazims work includes taking fabricating hadith twisting them and adding bits claiming their not fabricated but real, now a guy who does that well what can you say about him, so he does this by first taking fabricated hadith twisting them adding his own things in it then claiming its sahih, takes a hadith and adds thigns to it, as for nazim according to him one of the islamic teaching is:
"Follow your sheikh and do not object to him--even when he contradicts the Rules of the Religion."
The first chapter shall serve to expose the methodology Of Sheikh al-Qubrusi based on his saying:
"One is not entitled to refute or object to any of the matters of his sheikh even if he contradicts the pure rules of the Religion."
now that statement alone proves this guys ignorance lies and corruption.
Nowback to Mujaddid Alp Thaani, did you know mujahid alp thani didnt beleive in mawlid? today nakshabandi view mawlid to be equivelant to eid and hajj, so that alone proves the corruption of nakshabandi through out the years, i dont know what his prime beliefs or work were so i cant say anything about him but studying on him must be done.
As for nazims innovation fabricating hadith including making his own rules of islam you can find a lot of them in a book called mercy oceons
im sorry but comments made by hudafah are utter garbish, typical of extreme salafis who love to criticise sufis.
If you want a discussion or a debate then give evidence, state a source and not just hot air; otherwise it will come across as you are sperading fitna and division in the Ummah.
I am quite sure Salahuddin Ayubi was also a "sufi"... Not sure where I read it though... most probably "dirty kuffar controlled wikipedia".
The tareeqahs afaik are not supposed to teach different - it is supposed to be more about action, making people be less concerned with worldly matters, more with spiritual ones.
Who knows though, maybe I am wrong.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
subhanallah from a promotion for me, from wahabi to now a salafi
well in my past debates i did provide the evidence this one well that post if you want evidence for that i can give it to you aswell no problem
as for saladin being a sufi HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
now that comment made my day, salauddin was said to be a strict sunni muslim following the real teachings of islam ,did saluddin perform the eid, yes he did, did he lead the jummuah that he did, did he ever celelbrate the milad un nabi UUUHHHHHHHH NO, if salauddin was a sufi and believed in those noor things you believe in it wouldve been something to be mentioned, if in terms of the original sufi which i said before then yes in that case he may have been that type of sufi, but not the type or in other words the corrupted ones, you sufis you didnt even fight a single battle till today everytime a battle came it was us muslims who you call the wahabi who were in front line to defend the deen, even today when the palestine brothers and sisters and afghan are being attacked wh ther to defend them, one it is the taliban whos group is a hanafi group not sufi, though out history while we did the batteling you sufis were too busy in your guru nanak pose doing dhikr
You do realise the chechens are sufi?
So were the Ottomans, the Somalis before the Shabaab were also sufi... most of the public still is.
The salafis on the other hadn were busy butchering and spilling the blod of other Muslims in order to enrich and empower themselves.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I thought it was established last time that the people who believe in the Prophet
being Noor used the qur'an as their source for such things? You can disagree over their interpretation, but you cannot deny that there is where they get their knowledge and idea from.
also, I thought I has also argued the wave particle duality thing which would mean none of it was an issue ever (even if it is a cop out solution).
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Is it me or is this whole sufi's make up things getting a bit old now? if you want to start a discussion by all means do so but really im getting fed up of the slating by either side of each other..start a topic e.g. Shrines and discuss..dont mention a scholar and then go on to diss him and others its just a waste of time and a tad boring if i wanna read something like that ill go on ummah forums...
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...
sallauddin was a true muslim, their is no quotes in the quran thats states he was created from noor, every hadithy that says that are fabriated, so salauddin wasa true muslim, if he was a sufi he wouldve been given the title a sufi muslim or a barelvi mmuslim, because even nonmuslims view sufis and shias similar to qadiani as people who deviated from the true path.
Look little boy, you (being a street scholar) are playing with fire. On a number of occasions during this thread have stated 'sufi' to be non Muslims. As soon as you did that guess what happened to you? Out of the folds of Islam. If you have any humility in you then restate the Shahada.
All your doing is repeating the same old rhetoric of salafis past. It's almost like a 'broken record'- gets a little tiresome.
Now get your proofs or run along.
hudhafah, hudhafah, hudhafah what short memory you have. I guess it is kind of convenient for you to forget the verse mentioned to you last time.
and you Mr hudhafah do not know the difference between da'eef and mawdu'. A hadith with a weak chain or narration is NOT classed asfabricated, but as weak.
(Kind of the same that all the ahadith that ban music are weak, but in such a case you will accept them...)
you're doing yourself a disservice here. Just because it will make your head explode it does not make it untrue.
Besides, the labeling of people into "sufi" is done by people like you, people who want to create fitnah and groupings.
But since he was big and famous and more or less unanimously agreed upon as righteous, it would not do to remind people that he was a sufi. So you decide on this occasion to obfuscate (well, not you. but like minded people) while others never saw it as a big issue anyway.
and this is a total lie.
You sir are a liar. May God have mercy on your soul.
Sufi muslims are the mjority and spread from indonesia to the caucasus, to eastern europe to the depths of Africa.
The new breed of pseudo salafis on the other hadn are new and not the majority.
Brelvi and sufi is not the same thing. Brelvis are those that follow Ahmad Raza of Bareilly. Sufism existed before then and continues to exist outside of it too.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Some of Salahuddin's aqeedah that may make you choke on your tea:
(from this vid)
Kind of goes against the salafi aqeedah of God being limited to a physical body.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
assalamu alaikum,
don't know who he is. but went to his website and recognised straight away. my revert sis in law nearly got sucked in by this sufi tariqa. i did little research. Well the website is self explanatory. Some of the claims made there are completely ridiculous, close to paranormal, superstition linked with using jinns rather than Quran and sunnah. So i'm not fan of this guy.
btw Ed are u suggesting anyone who is against this tariqa or sufism entirely is a an extreme salafi? Well whatever that may mean i just want to stick to orthodox islam no frills no additions if that makes me a salafi so be it.
here's website see what you think, i think the images are haunting, i can't forget those eyes:
http://www.sheiknazim2.com/sufism.html
“O my people! Truly, this life of the world is nothing but a (quick passing) enjoyment, and verily, the hereafter that is the home that will remain forever.” [Ghafir : 39]
(I probably shouldn't laugh, astaghfirullah.)
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
no I'm not saying that
extreme salafi is one who calls everyone else who doesnt hold the same doctrine as him/her as mushrik or bid'ati or gumrah (misguided) or jahanammi! If you disagree with mawlid, tawassul, following madhabs etc then so be it but to accuse those who follow such practise as misguided or mushrik/bid'ati is not just extreme it atatcks many many classical scholars of Islam from our history including the likes of Imam Asqalani, Suyuti, Ibn Kathir, Ibn Jawzi, imam Qastallani, Imam Allusi, etc etc
I don't think I've mentioned tariqa or sufism anywhere.
Yes, follow quran, sunnah, ijma and qiyas.
follow the deen according to the understandings of the classical scholars of Islam over the past 1000 years.
Dont follow sufis today who you may feel are not right...follow tasawuf according to quran and sunnah as followed by Hujjat ul Islam Imam Abu Hamid al Ghazzali or Imam Malik. Tasawuff is a part of the deen, not the entirety and not its ommission either.
Today people are quick to divide the ummah over sufi and not sufi- what's all that about?
Imam Hamza Yusuf said in a talk: if the Sufis call you a salafi, and the salafis call you a sufi- it means you're on the right path!
Mashallah, i love that quote!
Shaykh Muhammad- a good friend of Hamza Yusuf- was in Manchester and we were talking about this very topic, and he said to me:
'I say to sufis today- you're not sufis...noway near to the real sufis, the people of tassawuf! I say to salafis today you're not salafis, no way near to the real salafs!'
Mashallah...again great words of wisdom from a respectable scholar.
About Shaykh Nazim to be honest I dont know an awful lot about him, or read his books etc
I ahve been pondering quite a bit over this bit:
and I am not too sure how to answer it - nuclear obliteration, informatice comment, or totally ignoring it.
Most people will not even realise which bit I am on about. the bit I am questioning is the use of the word of "orthodox".
Should non salafis find the use of that word offensive? I think so. EVERYBODY thinks that they are the orthodox ones, not the other groups who have deviated or made changes.
Just like you are saying that they are close to orthodox Islam, I would think the opposite - I see them as modern revisionists, and unlike others who may have falled into similar traps, I see them as worse since they have made spilling the blood of other.
(and no, you can't just "become a salafi" if you do not accept any of the sufio groupings. There are others like the Muslim Brotherhood who are not sufi and not salafi either. The salafi scholars etc are very dogmatic and ... not kind to there being different interpretations including historical ones that came before them. Choosing them has to be a conscious choice and is not simply a "so be it". I see why people choose - they offer a strong voice and that has some attraction. People love things like that.)
As for the topic of sufism, one of the best example practitioners I can think of for this post is you.
You have made choices in life because you think they are what God wants from you - thinkgs like niqab, sleeping on a hard bed or floor, not celebrating your kids' birthday (even though I hold a different opinion on this) etc.
They are the heart and core of sufism as it is all about trying to curtail your nafs to do what God wants you to do.
I do not know what others call sufism, but I think that is the heart of it, and it is a part of "orthodox Islam" - simply put there can be no thing in sufism that is not from the qur'an and sunnah. If there is, true sufis should combat it. (and this is also why using titles and names instead of addressing specific issues is IMO a problem - it just causes arguments instead of solving problems.)
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
i dont know what it entails to be a sufi exactly. but i have only seen or heard of the negative things. i.e my bro went to ajmer sharif, this is primary place most indopak muslims get their taweez or amulets they wear around their necks for all sorts of reasons. parents thght some miracle cure from pir could solve his health problem, which a lot of ppl have, so shipped him off to the grand sheikh.Brother waS sceptical rightly so. he saw so called sufis dancing naked around a tomb of one of their saints, apparently act of worship. Did enough to put him off religion for a while.
i've had pir conman,again sufi making great supernatural claims. looked into my eyes told my mother dont let your daughter go alone to the library, like he saw some vision that i dunno i may become literate? Proceeded to make claims he could cure my mother of her illness even though there is no cure for hers, scientists still looking for medication to subdue symptoms let alone cure. course my parents were to blame. typcial gullible indopak parents raised on Islam with a mix of superstition. always thinking oh someone must have done magic on us. we need amulets to protect us blah blah. Well she wasn't cured, she suffered all those months he stuck around, whilst docs tried to figure out what illness she had. Then when he'd got enuff free residence and money he ran to next victim.
so im sorry if i sound cynical. sorry if i come across like im on a highhorse if you ever met me you'd know i'm much the opposite. quiet keep to myself,non argumentative so i guess vent it online, have very little knowledge but trying to follow what i think is right.
i don't believe in psychics. if i read sheikhs website where they are overly venerated or where their followers tend to overpraise without being told not to by the sheikh alarm bells ring straight away, and usually i'm right-fake sheikh.
if they claim to transport themselves spiritually or their followers spiritually to another time or place i definately won't believe this is islam.
if they claim they have contact with out nabi
and can perform wonders for us as a median i don't believe that either.
I know all sufi concepts are not bad or against Islam i.e books on concentration in salah, purification of the heart, dhikr, taubah etc i have those sorts of things. The first thing closest to sufism i ever read was the complete works of Al-Ghazali simply because my brother had it on the shelf and i was curious about Islam. I particularly liked chapter on salah and concentration techniques. hamza yusuf was the first young speaker i heard, before that it was Ahmad deedhat. They inspired me a lot when i was younger. Ed mentioned Ibn Kathir and Al Jawziya i too have some of their works. So no i don't totally reject the entire concept of sufism. I prefer not to call it sufism if it is in line with Quran and sunnah it is Islam isn't it?
Sufism to me is the wrong word. Today anyone can be a sufi. there are so many different tariqas, where evne non muslims can join in, it's like doing a class of yoga these days. ppl get their once a week spiritual high and go home. I don't want the negative things about sufism wrongly connected with the religion of Islam.
P.S i am not easily scared but those eyes seriously haunting, hypnotic, don't look at them for too long.
“O my people! Truly, this life of the world is nothing but a (quick passing) enjoyment, and verily, the hereafter that is the home that will remain forever.” [Ghafir : 39]
those pirs are not real pirs, they are con men. they have nowt to do with tasawwuf nor are they following the sunnah of the Prophet (saw), they have made up their own version of tasawwuf. it is people like them that give tasawwuf a bad name and tasawwuf is very much a part of islam.
as for taweez, that is permissible as reported by many sahaba.
imam jalaludin suyuti radiAllahu anhu saw the Prophet
over 70 times whilst awake, he would ask the Prophet 
questions and the Prophet 
would answer them.
Dodgy people do exist and they are a scurge.
People should do nothing that is against the qur'an and sunnah.
Those are the basic rules.
After that, I myself have not too concerned myself with such things. Besides, I do not want to reduce my love for this world. That seems like torture.
Here, there is a difference of opinion. and that is a good thing - differences of opinion are allowed after all - as long as 1 - people do not think the power is ultimately from a source other than God and 2 - they do not condemn those that do think that the power is from God (ie God has allowed someone to do something) as Mushrik.
The first of those is shirk, the second well, calling Muslims kaafir and that is a deeply offensive thing to do.
(people can still dislike it or be wary of it or as people to avoid it without condemning it as shirk.)
If I heard this, I would not write it off straight away - I would ask for proof. Youtibe it. Think of the wonders of not having to play for flights... no green house emissions. so documented proof otherwise... well... as you say.
It is just that they are zoomed in and they are slight out of alignment. People expect eyes to be in alignment (and mostly not too big or starey). Eyes can have that effect. I remember some poster somewhere where there were many pictures of many eyes on it. jarring.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I always find such things hard to accept.
Maybe it was the case, but at the same time, if it really happened is that a valid way of forming rulings?
Any random person could make such things up then...
EDIT I spoke to a shia once who was sure about his righteousness "I see my grandfather in my dreams and he guides me"...
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
you find everything hard to accept if it doesn't fit in with your line of thinking.
yes, obviously.
the Prophet
saw ayesha radiAllahu anha in a dream so he married her.
dreams/visions mean things and in islam they aint disregarded. there is so much stuff on this.
imam suyuti radiAllahu anhu isn't any random person.
the validity of ahadith depends on the narrators of the chain.
so?
dead people cannot lie so whatever they say to you in a dream is true.
Noor it would help if you gave some evidences to back up your arguments:-)
That is a different situation. The Prophet
also received revelation. (The marriage to Hadhrat Aisha (ra) was not breaking any established rules.)
Others can abuse the idea of "I was told to do it". Like this guy in india a couple or so years ago. He said he had a dream to marry his daughter and the close family (including his wife, the girls mother) supported him "because he is a pious person" when evidently such a thing goes totally against the shariah.
Dreams and thoughts can be used to make (already halaal) choices yourself IMO (even normal ones where they are you trying to figure things out because it is a theory that people dream about problems, threats and more as a way of processing information), but they cannot be used to established new rules or things for other people.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
shaytan can take the form of anyone except for muhammad SAW, so your grandfather can simply be a image made by the shaytan
how about reference where this info came from
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