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yup, agreed with khan
i read most of the letter and some good stuff said, and 100man.......well, i didnt expect you to say anything else really
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
Syrian Islamists?
Is anyone still paying attention to this crap.
lol
'islamists' .... i thawt only bush uses them words
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
100,
As Sharon was commanding the Israeli forces who oversaw the massacre, would you accept that Sharon is/was a terrorist?
The Palestinians were forced to look for a peace deal with a man who they regard as a terrorist.
Anyone want to dispute the facts in what I said instead of replying with all this drivel?
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
For the sake of clarity:
Terrorism is "The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."
War Crimes are "Any of various crimes, such as genocide or the mistreatment of prisoners of war, committed during a war and considered in violation of the conventions of warfare."
A Freedom Fighter is "One engaged in armed rebellion or resistance against an oppressive government."
Hamas, Hezbollah etc; are examples of terrorists, and now that Hamas represents a legitimate government body any future terrorist activity committed by them qualifies them as war criminals as well (Internationally, war can only be carried out between two states).
By definition; Sharon cannot be a terrorist - he can, however, be a war criminal. The usual canard of accusing Sharon of a terrorism in response to accusations of terrorism against Hamas, Hezbollah etc serves as nothing more than a rhetorical trick. It's a logical fallacy that neither answers the question, nor properly applies the term.
He is a War Criminal; for acting on behalf of a state (and not himself or an organized group) in a plethora of situations in which he has violated the law egregiously.
The problem with Iran is not that it is a wealthy Muslim Nation (since it's [url=http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ir.html#Econ]not[/url]), rather Iran is breaking International Law to pursue an illegal nuclear program and is non-cooperative with efforts to determine whether this illegal program includes a military contingent, which [url=http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,430649,00.html]evidence[/url] suggests exists.
Iran could avoid this situation by cooperating with the IAEA under the UN. This is the same UN who in Iraq organized UNMOVIC (Cooperative effort of Blix and Elbaradei) and complained that the United States was acting prematurely and that they needed more time. Ultimately Elbaradei's conclusion was [url=http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1816612,00.html]no weapons in Iraq.[/url]
This time around they are saying Iran is [url=http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1964716]non-coopera..., [url=http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2006/sc8679.doc.htm]violating the NPT[/url] and it is their assessment that Iran needs to be sent before the UN [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4680294.stm]Security Council[/url]. Same world organization, same leadership, two very different conclusions.
And while Iran would have you believe the IAEA is a US vassal, the reality of the situation shows a far less [url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57928-2004Dec11.html]supp... United States for the IAEA's work.
I don't know if the IAEA takes national wealth into consideration during its investigations, so until my present ignorance in that area evaporates I cannot answer your call to sensibility Khan. Interesting though that you would ask the [i]non-muslims[/i] here to recall our senses, meanwhile [i]the largest muslim nation on Earth[/i], Indonesia (n1), didn't seem to share your sentiments when they voted.
[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/22/AR200605... see why people object to the US' hyperactive push for punitive policy[/url]. Threats of economic sanction and military action are clearly irresponsible at this juncture. However I do not understand the other crowd which chants "just let it slide" and "there is no problem here" when clearly there is a problem and we absolutely cannot "let it slide." I don't see how they could bring themselves to ignore such a mountain of evidence.
Out of curiosity on that last paragraph - do muslims believe in "the beast" found in the book of revelations? I was under the impression our understanding of judgment day is dramatically different from yours.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
[size=9][i]N1. IAEA member states voting for recommending Iran to the Security Council: Algeria, Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Belarus, Belgium, Canada, China, Colombia, Ecuador, Egypt, France, Germany, Ghana, Greece, India, Indonesia, Japan, Libya, Norway, Portugal, Republic of Korea, Russian Federation, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Sweden, United Kingdom, United States of America and Yemen.
Voting Against: Venezuela, Cuba and Syria.[/i][/size] [size=7][url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4680294.stm]Source 1[/url] [url=http://www.iaea.org/About/Policy/Board/index.html]Source 2[/url] [/size]
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
The act of crippling a wealthy Nation based on Lies is a BEASTLY act. You coming out with Irans not wealthy, come of it, from ur CIA link itself makes it look stable with excellent potential for growth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Iran
With almost 10% of the worlds oil,- hell yeh its a wealthy nation. Iran has the world's largest zinc reserves and second-largest reserves of copper. It also has important reserves of iron, uranium, lead, chromite, manganese, coal and gold.
Yeh they're mining capabilities are underdeveloped. But anyone with half a brain cell can see, they're a nation with a bright future.
Iran is also one of the fastest growing telecommunications markets in the Middle East and aims to become a Middle Eastern market leader. It has the largest telecommunication network in the region.
The literacy rate alone is applaudable. The turnover of doctors and professors are applaudable.
And what..., 'nah.. lets not let them develop, lets not have a strong nation in the middle East. Lets bomb them, cripple them, and make them rely on the West, make them take out bigger loans, etc etc etc..' basically send them to the gutter like Iraq.
Would they do they same to Israel,..? the number of Inetrnational Laws Israel has broken..? thats only the tip of the Iceberg on the HYPOCRISY thats obvious for anyone to see.
The BEAST is at work.
The act of mass murder with Bombs, based on allegations of 'possible' nuclear misuse' (which the US itself has a long history of misusing - many of which are documented in school textbooks), is a BEASTLY act.
Whether Islams view on the BEAST and the Dajjal may be different from the Christian understand makes no difference in this instance.
Defend it all u want, It will go down in history as a Beastly act, just as the invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan the Establishment of the state of Israel has gone down as a Beastly act.
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
I find that very debatable. The enemy in his case had zero respect for the Geneva conventions or any other and if Israeli tactics such as house demolitions seem beyond the pale it is worth considering that these were commited against an enemy whose only war policy was to maximise civilian destruction. I also do not think that he ordered what the Phalangists ultimately visited on Sabra and Shatila, and I also find the debate highly jaundiced given the free hand in war of surrounding states. In no instance has the Israeli army had a free hand to commit war crimes beyond the debatable house demolitions.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
laugh out loud.
they've head a free hand to shoot kids, they've had the free hand to demolish houses whilst people still living in them. Mate - i admire ur allegiance to the state of Israel, but do u really believe the crap that that ur typing? Israel's a disaster - everyone knows it.
Its done more harm than good.. can u not see that? What would Abraham or Moses say.. 'yeh, brush them lil kids with bullets in their heads under the carpet, The army aint had a free hand, so its all hunky dorey'.
i think not.
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
khan, you aren't making points. I'm not above criticism but this is real drivel. The army has not 'had a free hand to shoot kids' and I doubt you believe they would want to. The house demolitions issue is not new to the discussion so if you want to make a point about them please do, merely referencing them doesn't teach me anything. Nothing else you said contains substance. Your comment: "Its done more harm than good.. can u not see that?" equally applies to anyone you choose to sling it against, and it is clear from this comment that you simply do not believe in Israel's legitimacy, which can only mean you positively support the likes of Ahmadinejad in the campaign to screw Israel every which way. Screw you. Sorry, members, for sinking to khan's level of debate there.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
Can't agree more with khan.
Did you see the news where a woman was shot in the head in front of her husband when they were in the sitting room by some Israeli soldiers and guess what the soldiers said afterwards....Sorry.
How pathetic....America should equally be blamed along with the state of Israel for letting them do this as Israel is their puppet. Allah knows best and the oppressers will be punished in the day of judgement.
The reason the soldiers apologised is that it wasn't intentional. Your failure to take in that fact is consistent with the most pathetic understanding of this conflict, whereby what happens is that Israel responds to a security crisis brought on by self-declared enemies and Muslims everywhere are educated that Israel's response is malevolent. It is a cynical, fatal, nihilistic view that does not relate to the facts. Such as an apology for killing civilians in war. There is very little else Israel can do but make operations as tight as possible and apologise for fatal accidents.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
A house occupied by civilians and riddled with bullets was an accident...don't make me laugh.
Tell you what why don't Israel take half of the land and palestine take half (it's fair)....I'm 100% sure Israel won't agree.
Muslim Bro, you're being an ass and it isn't amusing. Do you care about peace and human life or are you more concerned with scoring petty points?
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
I've never told u to ***** u.. so er technically ur not on my level of debate.
mate u honestly can't see it can u. your eyes might be open, but ur heart is totally blind to all the injustices that have happened because of Israels so called 'right to live in the land'.
The house demolitions are only a small part of the picture on the injustices of Israel. Look around, everyone hates Israel, except those that dont.. Everyone hates mass murder except those that don't, everyone hates killing lil kids, except those that dont.
The establishment of the state of Israel has given the Beasts of this world, leverage to create carnage in the middle East. The number of deaths alone, what that means nothing to you as long as ur people have their land, have their nukes, have the right to treat the arabs like sh*t.
Now about the Iranians president, He's not said anything wrong in the Letter. His words we're positive. What have the Israelis and the US been saying.. Helllo my lil friend.. its all been Negative.
[b]EDIT[/b]
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
I do care about peace and human life that's why I came up with a theory where Israel takes half and palestine takes half.....does that seem unfair to you. Or do you think it would be fair if Israel took 90% and palestine had the 10%
They have dismissed the letter as peripheral to the issue of Israel and nukes and regard it largely as a call to Islam.
khan, I can't believe you are seriously arguing for the destruction of the state. I can't discuss this with you any more than Israel can negotiate with Hamas.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
100man don't you think it would be brilliant if the people of Israel and Palestine lived peacefully alongside with each other, as my theory suggests or do you want a Israel state where the Palestinian people have no say and are oppressed coz that's the way it seems to be.
It doesn't reflect the reality of where people live and have lived. An enormous number of Palestinians come from Jordan. Jordan got way more than half. The fact being that nobody on either side claims the Palestinians are entitled to half the land. Either they believe all Israel to be injustice or they are talking of 1967. Israel is a very small country, and Jordan has eaten into Palestinian land. Israel is willing to discuss the 1967 borders or something very equivalent, and my understanding is those that have entered negotiations with Israel retained objections about the details of the borderline or the "right of return", so apart from the fact I find it a facetious suggestion, it is not a realistic option for peace. Added to your earlier remarks it demonstrates that you are stuck to your position in support of the campaign against Israel.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
who's talking about destruction of the state..? is that how insecure u are?
i'm telling you about the injustices of the state of Israel, without acknowledging the facts of it evil beastly ways, ur saying I want it to be destructed?
raah, ur on some next level of debating.
u compare me to Hamas, and u to Israel.. poetry mate. keep it up :roll:
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
khan, if your points lead anywhere else you obviously aren't making that clear. Israel and the Palestinians have lived for some time in a state of war, and both sides have commited injustice. My key point is that Israel is not malevolent, and does not intend injustice. This should excite you, because it means that Israel is open to negotiating for a Palestinian state.
ftr it is Ahmadinejad, who you are apparently supporting, who is talking of the destruction of a state, and nothing about my insecurities.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
Israel does not intend injustice.. what..? thats like saying "lets drive these people out of their homes, lets kill their kids, lets imprison a load of them.. lets stir sh*t up in the middle East so that our daddy America comes in and bombs the load of them.. but we didn't mean it.. really.. oops it was an accident.. or.. we really do appreciate u letting us live here.. even though we shoved a load of u out to make space for us.."
israel open for negotiation.. laugh out loud.
im not trying to make a point as such, im just highlighting where Israel's gone wrong, and where ur thought processes have gone wrong... saying Israel didn't mean it, isn't really acknowledging the fact that the injustices are Israels fault.
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
You are making a point in support of laughing off any suggestion of showing goodwill, and in support of the vicious anti-Israel campaigns, and you are making it with glee. Again, I doubt you believe that Israel's operations are just a malicious drive against Palestinians.
If Israel knows where the bombs are, they have a duty to get at them, because otherwise Israeli civilians will be targetted. If the Palestinians are happy to take losses and blame it on Israel they can keep up their campaign, but Israel doesn't need anything from the Palestinians and self-evidently, if you follow Israeli politics at all, doesn't have it in for them.
The campaign to villify Israel is integral to keeping up the terrorist campaign against it, and it is not a laughing matter that I couple you with Hamas. Israel's concern is its security. Suicide bombings are not reflective of any such concern, they are a pressure tactic. If your main thing is to have Israel be at fault, very obviously all that needs to happen is for Palestinians to drop their campaigns and see if the suicide bombings were serving any purpose at all, somehow keeping the malevolent Israelis at bay or showing them what-for.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
Out of curiosity have you any financial capital attached to Iran's 'prosperity' in your portfolio? There is a reason why, they have 11% unemployment and 16% inflation (a misery index of 27), 40% of the country lives below the poverty line. Sporting a UN HDI in the .6's they are somewhere between a 2nd and 3rd world nation.
Now [url=http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ae.html#Econ]UAE[/url] on the other hand - there's the one we should be picking on. Surely your investment broker wouldn't chastize you for seeking shares in Emirate's Airline.
You haven't demonstrated how the IAEA and UN's concerns over Iran are financially motivated. Nor have you demonstrated why (I presume you mean) UK or USA specifically would benefit from or want an unstable unproductive Middle East. I also don't see why countries like Indonesia, Singapore, Yemen, Egypt and Libya would be motivated by preventing middle eastern prosperity when the latter three are middle eastern nations and the former two are muslim nations. They referred Iran to the Security Council for noncompliance with the NPT.
They couldn't do the same to Israel. Israel didn't sign the NPT and therefore isn't party to it.
No, the Beast isn't at work. International law is at work - treaties signed by Iran, monitered by the IAEA and enforced by the UN. This is being carried out by men in blue helmets, not horned creatures with pitchforks and 666 on their neck. It's going through the proper channels despite griping from the United States who is too brash and quick to seek a military solution and despite much of the Muslim World who wants the UN to look the other way and allow Iran to break the NPT.
The anti-Christ has better things to do at the moment than poke Iran.
The Beast is the adversary of Christ in the end of times I'm not sure if we can call him "Satan" but I think that is the common understanding. I do not recall where he comes from but my intuition is that he simply appears on the scene one day as a powerful and popular figure. I haven't read Revelations nor do I intend to in the near future since it's not meant to be taken literally and misreadings can be disasterous.
Other than to note that Iran has a penchant for the destruction of Israel lately, why are you guys talking about Israel? This is about Iran...
Dave.. u contstantly talk about the IAEA.. Lets go back to square one.
The US,.. for quite some time now, has been accusing Iran of trying to develop Nuclear weapons and Iran has been insisting that its intentions are peaceful and that it is only interested in peaceful use of the Nuclear energy....
Iran, to allay the international community’s fear, froze its enrichment program and started a series of negotiations with U.K., Germany, and France...
However,.. without the United States these negotiations were not going to produce any results, since it was only the United States that could address the Iranian’s national security concerns...??
Iranians.. seeing themselves surrounded by American forces wanted a security guarantee that United States would not invade Iran,... something that United States was not prepared to give..
so the negotiations with the European three failed and Iran resumed its enrichment program... Iran was threatened with Security Council and even invasion without any effect.
now once again there is talk of Security Council resolution under article 7 and continuous threats of invasion... there have even been talks of tactical nuclear strike on suspected Iranian nuclear facilities.. in other words stop enriching Uranium that might be used in Nukes.. or we'll nuke you..?
Now you talk about what interests the US has on Iran's financial capabilities. Especially after spending over 320 Billion dollars for Iraq war (officially so far) and with no end in sight, why is the Bush administration insisting in starting another catastrophic war in the Middle East? What does it have to gain?
World peace? Ask yourself do you really believe that Dave?
back to the oil. oil companies’ valuations are based on those companies’ access to oil reserves. Iraq and Iran combined have over 20% of the world’s total proven oil reserves.. imagine what having access to those reserves will do for the valuation of US oil companies, not to mention their profits.
the US consumes fully 25 percent of the world oil supplies.. China and India are growing rapidly just around the corner, Turkey has also been holding talks with Iran... their economies consume more and more oil.. china currently consumes 8.2 percent of the world’s oil production. soon it will increase to 10 or even 14 percent. where is that oil going to come from? Is US willing to reduce its share for China? It is highly improbable... Iran will be a major player by the way things are looking. And poor old US, whats gonna happen to them? Whats gonna happen to the profits of all of the big oil companies?
now the other influencial factor, one of the limbs of the beast is Israel. there is no doubt that Israel has a powerful lobby in the United States. there are currently over 50 Jewish organisations that directly or indirectly lobby for Israel. Israel didn't sign the NPT? Is that some sort of license allowing Israel to do what they want? That goes beyond HYPOCRISY, more into STUPIDITY.
the Israeli influence is well known, but few are willing to openly talk about it, especially in the United States and Europe.. the Israeli dimension is particularly difficult to mention, for if one dares to state the obvious, one is branded as anti-Semite or a terrorist sympathiser.. the Jewish lobby also can make life very unpleasant for those who dare to mention the extent of its influence in U.S. and other countries.
All in all Dave, Hundreds of thousands will be killed, Iraq, Afghanistan, mass murders because of lies and US arrogance. And now Irans on the waiting list.
Its Beastly.. the Iranians don't want to be invaded. The presidents letter proves it. Dont try and make it sound like Iran deserves the Mass killings.
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
The IAEA is square one Khan. Iran unilaterally decided to break the law by pursuing an illegal nuclear enrichment program and now they will not allow adequate inspection for IAEA investigators. I don't like repeating myself so I invite you to look at the IAEA's recommendation to Iran and the Security Council I posted earlier.
Any country which breaks international law is theoretically subject to UN Security Council oversight; it's not a "threat" it's simply the mechanism by which the UN enforces treaties.
Yes, I'm still asking what the US stands to gain from shattering a wealthy middle east.
:?:
Aside from the fact the United States [url=http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_l... not import oil from Iran[/url], presently the United States is exploring alternative fuels and better energy efficiency, it's one of the [url=http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/05/20050516.html]centerpiec... of the upcoming midterm elections.
I have no idea how one could measure the impact of pro-Israeli lobbies in government since there are so many soft factors, but fortunately I don't really have to since once again I'm pointing to the fact the US in her skepticism stands with the United Nations and all but three members of the IAEA in asking Iran to cooperate with the NPT, allow more inspections, and answer for evidence of their illegal weapons program. What is the connection between 'the Jews' and the IAEA?
It seems like the Muslim World is able to find Israelis and Jews hiding behind every tree when there is something unsettling to it.
If the Iranians don't want to be invaded the Iranians are going to have to comply with international law. It's very simple, criminal action results in administrative action. The Iranians cannot have a "by" simply because they are throwing a national hissy fit at the possibility of facing consequences for their illegal actions.
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