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Question is can they do anything?
wars by proxy are old fashioned... direct intervention is suicide.
The nly thing they can do is give Iran the technology it wants hoping that will make the US think twice... but that is a multi-edged sword.
SO are they themselves hamstrung?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
They can certainly block any UN approval of attacks on Iran.
There is no chance of an US invasion of Iran as they can’t subdue Iraq or Afghanistan let alone launch another war.
The Iraq war has strengthened Iran considerably
There would be no reason to invade Iran, the military option would be airstrikes. Iran would then be faced with the dilemma of attacking Iraq to hurt the US army stationed there, send terrorists to the United States, or international whining.
I suspect they will avoid sending their military to Iraq and send terrorists instead; I doubt that will have a significant effect since we know they would be comming, we know where they would be coming, and they are distinct enough an ethnic group that we could easily pick them out.
I also doubt they would send terrorists to the US since it's not feasible and would accomplish nothing.
So they would whine to Russia and China - who don't really care all that much except (in Russia's case) to gain more internationall pull than the US, or in Chinas case to get better oil contracts. They in turn would attempt to hardline negotiate with the US, there would be no threat of war since they aren't suicidal; but they do have other cards and could broker a peace I'm sure.
I don't think we will resort to military action, most likely we will impose sanctions on Iran who will turn to Russia or China for help. Those countries would then be faced with major tradeoffs between (in Russias case) international prestige, and in China's case American Investment. Who knows what they would chose.
The Arab world might bale them out though.
I cannot see sanctions working.
There is already a percieved lack of oil being extracted...
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
International sanctions - not american. That's why we are going through the UN.
That is what I mean
Why would russia, china rub their own noses into it? China needs a whole lot of oil. WHy would it in any way approve sanctions that may hurt it?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Because American investment is worth far more than slightly cheaper oil. The trade deficit is what powers the present Chinese growth - largely at American expense. We are trying to buy friendship through it and it's not working.
As for Russia they desperately want to be a Superpower and of equal standing and prestige to the US, they are trying to do this through international appeal - and so far their strategy has been "let's stick to the rules" since America disrupted international order in the Iraq war.
If the UN sanctions Iran for breaking a major treaty like the NPT and Iran doesn't participate everything they are betting on is called into question and the US can always marginalize them for following their own interests like we did (initially) with France.
The fact is if Ahmadinejad doesn't stop threatening Israel he will force Israel's hand, because nobody sits back faced with threats of random and unpredicable, potentially enormous violence. It is not as if Iran does not already make Israeli lives (and the Palestinians') hard enough as it is, through the management, training and funding of terrorists. Let me be clear that I am nowhere near suggesting wide action and am absolutely not condoning a preemptive nuclear strike, whereas, Ahmadinejad is. So it would be entirely sensible if a country were to target certain Iranian facilities regardless of the fact this will mean a loss of life and that the Iranians will call it an act of war. In my view telling the world a country will be wiped off the map is urgently actionable. I would rather he didn't, and if he continues like this I will unquestionably support military intervention. I believe midnight is approaching for this man, and damn his bluff. To threaten in this way is hideous and despicable. Anyone disagree?
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
woow hold up you got things wrong the US is the one who is supporting a whole State (Isreal) just to enslave, degrade, suppress an innocent people. The State of Isreal is demolishing innocent people's homes and bombing women and children. Now I wonder if the Palestinian people will end up the like Native Americans.
You can't escape from DEATH. So be prepared
So what do you suggest a regime change in Iran!
You can't escape from DEATH. So be prepared
I didn't suggest anything but I noted your unusually straight question mark and retched at your signature.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
Valid.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
Well if you acknowledge that the fact that my signature is [b]“VALID”[/b] then what is so retching about it? Maybe deep inside your heart you are scared of death. Funny how you have noticed my strange question mark but have not heeded what I have said.
[EDITED]
You can't escape from DEATH. So be prepared
ahmed_7,
I note you didn't contribute about more serious loss of life elsewhere, and I note you aren't objecting to a nuclear bomb, and I note you have a thoroughly jaundiced understanding of Israel and Palestine, and I note again your utterly uninspiring, dark signature, and the line in which you ask me a question and then answer it yourself, and I conclude that I am not open to your points.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
what's so wrong with acknowledging the inevitability of death? it is atleast better than having a fear of death. for people who believe in a Hereafter, this life is seen as temporary and we will be judged according to the way we lived on Earth, so remembering death isn't necessarily uninspiring, it can mould one into a better person since it serves as a reminder that a day will come when one's deeds and dealings with others are judged by God.
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
Nothing wrong with that, just I don't read anything so positive into his use of it. I don't like being around that.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
fair enuf, but i think you're reading too much into it.
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
Not really and I find this quite a petty distraction from the points I made.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
i'm sure ahmed will address your post in its entirety himself, there was no reason for me to address your other points because they are specific to him but i assumed the signature isn't written by him, its one of those phrases u can find anywhere on the net or in chain emails.
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
It's horrible. I consider it fine within a greater construct about contributing to the world and living a life of love or somesuch but I can see it having other connotations on its own like that, like hurry up and do what I say.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
lol. as i said, you're reading too much into it.
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
You support what the Israel is doing to Palestine yet you criticize my views of death. This reeks of hypocrisy. My signature isn't an issue of the topic. I am sure we are all intelligent people and it never hurts to play the part, so let’s get along with the issue at hand.
You can't escape from DEATH. So be prepared
And the new legitimate government of Palestine is a terrorist group equally responsible for the bombing of innocent women and children.
I don't recall the Navajo ever bombing a Starbucks... perhaps I'm mistaken.
Either way how can you possibly say that Ahmadinejad [i]isn't[/i] attempting to provoke or possibly prepare for engagement against Israel. Literally out of nowhere Ahmadinejad determined 1. It's time to "review" the Holocaust 2. Israel needs to be wiped off the map, then all this rhetoric about "zionists" and Israel baring some sort of responsibility for the Muhammad cartoons and the IAEA's less than optimistic appraisal of their nuclear program. Israel is Ahmadinejad's new obsession, and whether you like them or not matters little to do with whether they and the rest of the world are justified in their concerns about Iran's future plans for Israel.
Doesn't it make you think when Israeli's kill Palestinians, no-one says a word but when Palestinians kill Israeli's there's heavy criticism from the international community.
The non-proliferation treaty tries to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons yet India and Pakistan broke it and have it. And the west going about that Iran has or is making nuclear weapons is complete rubbish. To make a nuclear warhead you must be enriching uranium around 95% but Iran has only enriched less than 10% which is more suitable for nuclear energy.
There is great criticism of Israel's killings. However Israel does not as a matter of policy target random civilians. If Israel were not under any such attack Israel would not fight at all. Palestinians who support such attacks do so in order either to gradually decimate Israel in collaboration with greater powers such as Iran and Syria or so as to force Israel to hand over occupied territories. However there is nothing Israel can do in unilateral response to this which categorically satisfies all the various militant groups involved (eg Hamas, Hezballah, Jihad Islamiyeh, now Al Qaeda, Al Aqsa Brigades) and in any event Israel says, "What kind of negotiation is this? We have made plain that we are willing to concede offers but that we will respond violently to terrorism. What we are not doing is committing random violence upon civilians, nor will we concede to terrorism. If the Palestinians wish to negotiate we have always been willing to do so." All Israel asks is that Palestinians have a clear objective in regaining the 1967 boundaries, rather than a multitude of objectives from annihalation to vengeance, speak as one reliable body, and renounce violence as a tactic or a means of negotiation. It is disgusting, and when Israel enacts a heavy death toll it is tragic. Apart from this, Ahmadinejad declares he wants to wipe Israel from the map, and the international community would be cold-blooded to allow him to pursue this intention. The Arab street I do not blame, because they are taught lies and to hate Israel. The pro-Palestinian Muslim in Britain I am less sympathetic to, because he chooses to believe that propaganda. I believe I am pro-Palestinian inasmuch as I want them to have a secure and peaceful independent state with borders which have been arranged to their satisfaction, and I am pro-Israeli in exactly the same way. I believe if someone is planning multiple attacks on civilians miltary action is called for, and I consider it a mark of Israel's humanity that they have not committed a full scale war against Palestinians or resorted to massacres as has Jordan and as have many surrounding states in other conflicts, and I consider Ahmadinejad's statements regarding annihalation a mark of his inhumanity, which I have abbreviated to 'evil'.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
...such as Sabra and Shatila maybe?
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
Arguably. Sabra and Shatila were indeed a case of great tragedy and inhumanity and Israel has always acknowledged this. Lebanon had already seen a "civil war" between Syrian Islamists and the PLO on one side and mostly Christian Lebanese on the other. Over 100,000 people were killed in that war which arguably still rages. In 1982 after Israel had suffered many attacks from Southern Lebanon, Israel allied with local Christian militia to help them regain control of Southern Lebanon under Israeli protection. The Christian camps of Sabra and Shatilla had been decimated and occupied by Islamists and, for context I point out, the PLO had just slain the Lebanese Prime Minister and most if his cabinet. The Phalangists when they went in under Israeli protection simply massacred the camps and it is very questionable whether they targetted the PLO at all. Following the Kahan Investigation which ruled that Israel should have anticipated somesuch outcome of allying with the Phalangists, the Israeli bigwigs including Ariel Sharon were stripped of their jobs. The Phalangists were directly responsible, and for them it was an act of ongoing warfare. In May 1985 Islamist militia killed 635 residents of Burj-el-Barajneh and Shatila, and in a two year fight between the PLO and a Syrian group some 2,000 people were killed in the camps. In 1990 the Syrians stormed Southern Lebanon and in eight hours of fighting 700 Christians were killed. We don't hear about them. Muslims worldwide didn't blink. What we hear about is Sabra and Shatila in 1982, and then we hear that it was an Israeli-sponsored massacre. There is a grain of truth in it.
The other material you posted does not oppose what I have said. It is saddening and I acknowledge that if Israel did not fight Palestinians, many Palestinian lives would be saved, however there would be (based on the current rate of aborted attacks) several explosions daily amid Israeli civilians. So I hold that Israel will not realistically be able to take that step before the Palestinians do.
I have to leave for work now.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
what a loada waffle, the acts of Israel are sick,..
defend them all u want but everyone knows the horrid truth about the establishment of the state of Israel..
back on topic, I thought that was an excellent letter from the Iranian president. Pretty much summed it up quite nicely.
definatly highlighted the HYPOCRISY going about.
Iraq was a wealthy Nation, the US Bombed it and crippled it. What on.. a lie.. lets be sensible now non-muslims on here.
The US wanna invade Iran cos of Nukes.. keep telling urself that.
Iran a wealthy nation, 'Oh we can't have wealthy Muslims in that nation'.. so lets Bomb it. Lets cripple it like we did Iraq. Lets make a nation of kings into a nation of beggers.'
It sickening,.. I mean seriously, what makes one commit such EVIL acts? Evil is not even the word.. its like only the BEAST and its loyal followers and defenders would do such a thing.
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
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