Intelligent Design v Evolution

Published by Beast on 26 January, 2006 - 23:07

Quote:
[b]Intelligent Design (ID)[/b] is the controversial assertion which argues that "certain features of the universe and of living things exhibit the characteristics of a product resulting from an intelligent cause or agent, as opposed to an unguided process such as natural selection." Proponents claim that Intelligent Design stands on equal footing with, or is superior to, current scientific theories regarding the origin of life.

The scientific community views Intelligent Design not as a valid scientific theory but as neocreationist pseudoscience or junk science. The U.S. National Academy of Sciences has stated that Intelligent Design "and other claims of supernatural intervention in the origin of life" are not science because their claims cannot be tested by experiment and propose no new hypotheses of their own.

So, Dave. Is Intelligent Design just something that is pushed by Christian Evangelical Complex or do you find any positives in the idea?

From what I've read, heard and seen about the affair I am particularly interested by Kenneth Miller. He is an evolutionist who is also a believer in God. I'm thinking of [url= this[/url].

Submitted by Dave on 26 January, 2006 - 23:12

The Pennsylvania courts just ruled it Creationism wrapped in a blanket essentially.

Charles Darwin was fundamentally right - this country needs to accept it.

Submitted by Beast on 26 January, 2006 - 23:16

I should have a look at some Harun Yahya videos on this too.

Maybe there's room for evolution and Islam to er... co-exist? :?

Submitted by Dave on 26 January, 2006 - 23:16

Nothing I have read indicates that

Submitted by You on 26 January, 2006 - 23:20

The thing about the theory of evolution is that it is still a theory.

There are aspects that are sound (Natural selection, mutation etc).

btw, Is evolution also intelligent design? ...afterall there is intelligence involved! (the losers become extinct... the best survive)

Blum 3

—

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Submitted by Dave on 26 January, 2006 - 23:28

[url= does not mean "unproven"[/url].

And you can find [url= design[/url] there too.

I used to argue intelligent design all the time... but the fact of the matter is it's a garbage argument, there is no evidence for Adam and Eve, and there is a mountain of evidence in support of Darwin's Natural Selection and the theory of Evolution.

Submitted by Beast on 26 January, 2006 - 23:31

"Don Karnage" wrote:

I used to argue intelligent design all the time... but the fact of the matter is it's a garbage argument, there is no evidence for Adam and Eve, and there is a mountain of evidence in support of Darwin's Natural Selection and the theory of Evolution.

Woah, whoah, whoah!

No Adam and Eve?

You're kidding right?

Submitted by Dave on 26 January, 2006 - 23:34

"Beast" wrote:
"Don Karnage" wrote:

I used to argue intelligent design all the time... but the fact of the matter is it's a garbage argument, there is no evidence for Adam and Eve, and there is a mountain of evidence in support of Darwin's Natural Selection and the theory of Evolution.

Woah, whoah, whoah!

No Adam and Eve?

You're kidding right?

No, i'm not kidding.

I don't see a factual basis for the story of genesis.

Submitted by You on 26 January, 2006 - 23:36

What exactly is in genesis?

Is it seven days for creation? (well 6... and Islam rejects that aswell. The qur'an says god does not need to rest...)

—

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Submitted by You on 26 January, 2006 - 23:46

For the Islamic Angle have a look at this:

[url= Islam Section[/url]

I am pretty surprised the bible goes into that much detail!

(and In the Islamic sense the 'day' means period. Maybe the bible means the same thing, but the meaning has been lost over time? afterall aramaic may have been similar in expression to hebrew and arabic..)

—

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Submitted by Dave on 26 January, 2006 - 23:57

"Admin" wrote:
For the Islamic Angle have a look at this:

[url= Islam Section[/url]

I am pretty surprised the bible goes into that much detail!

(and In the Islamic sense the 'day' means period. Maybe the bible means the same thing, but the meaning has been lost over time? afterall aramaic may have been similar in expression to hebrew and arabic..)

Greek... the Bible was written in Greek, and is called the Septuagint and is approximately 21-2300 years Old. The previous Hebrew works were destroyed however an Alexandrian copy lived on, as well as the oral tradition.

The New Testament was originally written in greek and Hebrew, however since the vulgar language of the empire was greek it caught on faster and thus the greek version became the official.

It was later translated to Latin.

Jesus spoke aramaic however he did not write the Gospels that happened 60-100 years later.

Submitted by You on 27 January, 2006 - 00:01

sorry, my bad.

(am I getting better at apologies?)

That article I linked to is a bit simplistic I think (there are a few things not pixked up in it, and a few other things that are oversimplified. But what do you expect for a two paeg article to introduce a subject? I was surprised at the mention of 'gravity'...(which was not picked up on in the article... forces of attraction and repulsion...))

—

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Submitted by Dave on 27 January, 2006 - 00:07

No need for an apology...

Is there any specific chapter of the Qur'an one could jump to that describes the creation?

Fussilat seems to be yielding a great deal of information but I see from the about article there is also stuff in 21 and 45

Submitted by *DUST* on 27 January, 2006 - 00:08

"Don Karnage" wrote:
I used to argue intelligent design all the time... but the fact of the matter is it's a garbage argument, there is no evidence for Adam and Eve, and there is a mountain of evidence in support of Darwin's Natural Selection and the theory of Evolution.

so u dont believe in Adam & Eve? Fool
—

[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=, X-Men[/url]

Submitted by Dave on 27 January, 2006 - 00:11

"*DUST*" wrote:
"Don Karnage" wrote:
I used to argue intelligent design all the time... but the fact of the matter is it's a garbage argument, there is no evidence for Adam and Eve, and there is a mountain of evidence in support of Darwin's Natural Selection and the theory of Evolution.

so u dont believe in Adam & Eve? Fool

Not sure. I see no factual basis for the Adam and Eve story - and as far as the factual origin of man is concerned I am wholly convinced of Evolution.

Submitted by Omrow on 27 January, 2006 - 00:22

Salam

"Don Karnage" wrote:
there is a mountain of evidence in support of... Evolution.

What about the mountain itself.

What is that in support of ?

You claim to see the monkeys playing on the mountain but not the mountain.

Omrow

Submitted by You on 27 January, 2006 - 00:31

"Don Karnage" wrote:
okay

I am not sure where all the verses are.

I have not looked into this for quite a while.

—

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Submitted by *DUST* on 27 January, 2006 - 00:36

"Don Karnage" wrote:
"*DUST*" wrote:
"Don Karnage" wrote:
I used to argue intelligent design all the time... but the fact of the matter is it's a garbage argument, there is no evidence for Adam and Eve, and there is a mountain of evidence in support of Darwin's Natural Selection and the theory of Evolution.

so u dont believe in Adam & Eve? Fool

Not sure. I see no factual basis for the Adam and Eve story - and as far as the factual origin of man is concerned I am wholly convinced of Evolution.


but isnt believing in them a pretty fundamental part of Christianity?
—

[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=, X-Men[/url]

Submitted by You on 27 January, 2006 - 00:43

"Don Karnage" wrote:
Anybody?

There is Surah 16: The Bee.

But remember that the Qur'an is not a book of science. It was not revealed to give a lesson in science. Rather it was revealed as guidance, and in places it mentiones facts, which are pretty much in accord with modern science.

[edit]

Bed time. I need some sleep, and have stayed awake longer than I should have.

I will try to pick this topic up 2moro... remond me.

—

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Submitted by Dave on 27 January, 2006 - 00:46

Why do I get the feeling I killed this conversation somehow...

Beast.. Aasiyah - are you still there?

Submitted by *DUST* on 27 January, 2006 - 00:48

"Don Karnage" wrote:
Why do I get the feeling I killed this conversation somehow...

Beast.. Aasiyah - you still there?


lol. yeh i'm stil here... but i gotta go pray and then sleep too.

ur one-word answers killed it. Blum 3

—

[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=, X-Men[/url]

Submitted by You on 27 January, 2006 - 00:51

My last post tonight:

creation/science/evolution are very big topics.

Here we are summarising everything in about 5 words. That is the reason IMO why there are uncomfortable silences...

Natural selection and evolution do not necessarily go against islamic principles as mentioned before... but most scholars say humans are a special case. There are a few (one) that argue that humans are not a special case...

—

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Submitted by Dave on 27 January, 2006 - 00:56

[i]"Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, [..] and this knowledge he holds as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason?"[/i] - St. Augustine (De Genesi ad litteram libri duodecim)

Submitted by khan on 27 January, 2006 - 17:37

aah, the good ole creationism vs evolution debate.

i passionatly believe in creationism,.. its a humongous topic,.. and can get pretty frustrating discussing things with evolutionaries who think people who believe Gods artistry in creation are 'dumb'.

had many debates over at with darwinists, dawkinists, evolutionrists, and can confidently say evolution is like a religion to them.

is a valuable tool for Muslims when faced with evolutionary propaganda. He's done so much work in exposing the truth about nature and the lies about evolution.

an end to the debate would be the discovery of a 'missing link' or transitional forms between the species - which darwinists claim have been discovered - lies.. lies.. lies..

harun yahya exposes factual evidences on these.. and example is when the evolutionaries presented bones of a human skull attached with the jaw of an orang-utan.. its sick!

now there are some very clever arguments, those who have little knowledge on biology/chemistry/physics are easily fooled by the 'observations' by evolutionarists. examples are DNA and matching patterns between the species. Its not evidence.. not at all, my argument against that is common structures will have similarities, Does it make sense for God to use an entirely different programme script to create a structure that has a similar function or appearance?

I'll end with my argument with..

At present there have been over 18 Tyrannosaurus Rex fossil discoveries around the world. But not one single "Transitional form" between man and ape.. or be it any other species. As Humans are more recent inhabitants of the History of Earth, surely the fossils would be higher up in the Earths crust, hence displaying an abundance of missing links..

—

[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]

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