However weary you think you are of programmes tracing the roots of terrorism, you should drop everything and watch this film.
The story of how the Muslim world fell out with the West, broadly dating from the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in 1918 and the colonial carve-up that followed, is a sad one, with tumultuous consequences.
But to have the twists and turns and ironies of that story laid out with such clarity and insight by top historians is strangely inspiring, perhaps because of the fog of prejudice that usually bedevils both sides.
It's not quite of the calibre of Adam Curtis's BBC2 series last year, The Power of Nightmares, but this wonderfully crisp survey of recent history is every bit as enlightening.
Essential viewing.
[url=http://www.radiotimes.com/ListingsServlet?event=10&channelId=132&program... Times[/url]
[url=http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/H/history/n-s/road911.html]Ch... 4[/url]
Tonight - 8pm
Last half hour disturbed by a family history lesson from Mum which is still ongoing.
But from what I saw:
Decent attempt at 'balance', although the balance was from an American perspective.
Just as I thought this documentary was 'OK', guess who pops up? - Irshad bloody Manji.
Considering it took in almost a century of Muslim history, it was too simplistic.
Oops forgot to watch it!
even though I made it a sticky earlier.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
irshad manji is a sexual deviant, a kafira and murtada if she ever was a muslim. I wouldnt pay much attention to her rubbish.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
strong words...explain....
i believe she is author of The Trouble with Islam...she accuses Islam of being oppressive to women, being out of date and in need of reform....
is she a Muslim? or was she a muslim, and now has left Islam?
she should be hung drawn and quartered
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
http://www.muslim-refusenik.com/
She is saying Islam needs to change to meet her ideals.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
u want it explicit editor?
she is a lesbian. her statements in her book take her out of islam, ne1 think im being a selfproclaimed mufti or unduly harsh?
buy her book, take it to any alim who reads english, doesnt matter what sect u r in so longer as it is mainstream and ask him if she is muslim.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
I think editor has not come across her. Or has forgot.
Her sight has had an upheaval since I last visited. She was discussed previously on our old old forums, and I had to read up a bit on her.
I cannot remember much at all.
But did anyone actually watch the programme.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Yeah, I thought it was a decent programme, I annoyed that they put Irshad Manji on there, she getting everywhere. But apart from her I thought that had a pretty decent line up of guest especially Benard Lewis. Gave really a good account of what has been going wrong in the muslims world and it all stem from who been leading us, a good show for muslims too see that alot of the problem do stem from inside the muslims and their attitudes. But i did enjoy watching the parts I did. Cheer for telling us it was on.
"A true Muslim is thankful to Allah in prosperity, and resigned to His will in adversity."
[url=http//www.guidancemedia.com/videostream.php?id=Burda.mov]Quran[/url]
The media reception of Irshad Manji as an "islamic scholar" is really quite disgusting and shows the lengths they'll go nowadays to attack Islam.
She's not an academic or a scholar. She's a former left-wing journalist/TV presenter who's taken up the zionist cause much like Christopher Hitchens and David Horowitz.
At least those two are actually jewish though (although Peter Hitchens, http://www.peterhitchens.com/ , denies this claim by his brother)
I wouldn't be suprised if Manji "comes out" in a couple of months claiming to have discovered that her family are actually decendents of Indian Jews not muslims.
What did she say in the programme anyway.
What I mean is she's more Melanie Phillips than Amina Wadud.
'We [Muslims] have never needed anyone else to opress us.'
'Hijab only applies to the Prophet (saw)'s wives.'
Yada yada yada...
I can't imagine how that could possibly be relevant to the context of the programme.
This statement does show however what a fraudster she is though.
She claims the Qu'ran is ambigious over and over again and yet here she is giving fatwas on the true meaning of hijab that all other muslims have misunderstood for 1400 years.
If the Qu'ran is ambigious as she says then how can she as someone who can't even read arabic possibly draw rulings from it?
Its like she's trying to be Salman Rushdie and Ayatollah Khomenei at the same time.
I'd much rather have Amina Wadud representing "progressive islam" than her.
Well on her site, the first pic on the about her bit is with her and rushdie.
As a second note, I have ecently seen amassive push to legitimise rushdie...
He was even on hardtalkxtra earlier today!
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Lol! She can both rushdie and khumayni, as far as im concerned both the same and so is she.
One comment I thought wa thought-provoking, well for me atleast was as follows. One person on the programme asked: ''we have to ask if saudi arabia had a democracy what kind of person would osama bin ladin be? i think he would have run for office.''
And i think that is a very interesting statement cos i never thought along those lines, but now that its been mentioned i think perhaps he is right. Even if Osama kept his religious beliefs, I think if he could run in an election he would have cos he would have a strong chance to win.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Thought provoking but simplistic.
Granted, if Saudi Arabia were to turn into a democracy today then ObL would be a candidate.
But if SA had been democratic since day one (1922 or whatever) then there wouldn't have been the kind of discontent and instability in the Saudi populace that there is today.
Having said that, if and buts can be debated till the cows come home.
He would have to be allowed into the country first... IMO he is exiled, with his nationality revoked.
He is a syptom of saudi society, not the cure.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
The problem with the Saudi regime is that the theology it espouses puts it at odds with most muslims in Arabia and in the surrounding areas.
They have zeal but they lack knowledge and spirituality.
The militants aren't rebelling against the House of Saud because it isn't democratic. They're rebelling because of what they see as it's religious decadence both in terms of domestic and foreign policy.
I doubt most Saudis want democracy or even really understand it. Fifty years ago the majority of them were still nomads.
Kindly Explain. What part of its theology puts it at odds with must muslims in arabia? What specific aspects are you referring to? What does it mean?
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
In a democracy they could possibly get rid of them.
I'm sure they'd prefer having a choice.
I m sure they would like some choices but imposing democracy just does not work.
It took Englad centuries to go from a feudal landbased society to the democracy. You cant expect it to just be implemented even within a generation, I dont think.
See, all that stuff about King John and the Magna Carta was power sharing between crown and barons. Then there was also the seperate church courts who dealt with priests and crimes against the church. It was only over many years that the Kings power began to be shared by the Barons/Aristocracy. The leap from King and Church to democracy where King is just a symbolic figure took centuries, you cant expect a society based on tribal loyality to all of a sudden vote for the best man, tribal loyalites are simply played out in the ballot box.
Take the elections that happen in Birmingham in pakistani dominated areas. On the surface the people who stand are in labour party or libdem or tory party; on the surface the voters atleast have some understanding of democracy and now quite a few of the pakistani electorate is englishspeaking and english educated - yet despite this votes are still caste largley on firstly family, then bradri, then caste lines. So even though ppl, even young british educated ppl, knw abt democracy and what not , wen election time comes you wil see that all the canvassers for the labour party are his cousins and brothers and nephews, all the ones driving around in cars and telling ppl to vote lib dem are related to the candidate.
Its not as simple as jjust putting a box there and telling ppl to mark an x.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Easy there. Esp. in Bham, Pakistanis who are involved in politics are of the older generation. I doubt that any of the Pakistani Bham councillors were born in the UK.
The younger, British-born and educated generation are on the whole aloof from the bradri-based local politics of Birmingham. If any do get involved to help relatives then they do it out of family loyalty rather than their own political views.
I'm certain that there are British-educated young Pakistanis who want to get involved in local politics, but they are hindered by the older generation.
The wahhabi doctrine is anti-sufism and is against having love for the prophet which is very important to the people of the hijaz.
?!?! THAT IS news to me.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Reading the [i]Medieval Times[/i] doesn't help.
theres a Medieval Times?!
Where can I buy one? Do they have any articles on Isabelle of Castille cos she was one fiesty catholic queen; what about Marie de Guise. And I need to find out more abt Catherine de Medici. Did you know for sooo many years she didnt have any kids; then she popped out 10 kids in QUICK succession
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
I watched like 10 mins of this program.
Not only did they jump from Palestine to Iraq and then to Iran without mentioning it but the lady speaker (cnt remember wat she was called) started chattn on about stuff that was untrue.
I think she said "covering up in not even mentioned in the Quran..." i was like "which version of the Quran has she been reading?"
Overall i dont think it did much for the integrity of the muslim people, only made the case against us stronger.
Back in BLACK
I don't know why she would even say this considering she's made it clear that she only follows the elements of islam that appeal to her.
What should be asked of her in response to this lie is "Would you wear hijab even if it was clearly stated in the Qu'ran".
This woman is really at the bottom of the the barrell in terms of intellectual discourse yet no one seems to have questioned why she's being presented as an academic when she's not.
Quite a while back a man named Israel Shahak wrote a book critical of traditional Judaism that while received well by leftists got no real mainstream coverage. This man was a university professor who taught in Israel for a good portion of his life and yet his book was given no attention by the mainstream media.
Compare this to Irshad Manji who's a smalltime journalist/TV presenter, has never spent a lot of time in muslim countries apart from Palestine/Israel of course and who lives in Canada.
I think part of the problem is that muslims in Canada/ America are not very well educated and don't know how to challenge her. The only time I've ever heard her challenged by muslims was on radio in the UK.
Salam
I watched ROAD TO 9/11 on Saturday.
Even though it was full of internal contradictions in arguments, the program was pretty frank in giving the western role in most of present day problems in middle east region.
Today there will be two further programs on tv about Islam.
1. " The Tottenham Ayatollah " is on Channel 4 at 8 pm.
2. " Battle for Islam " is on BBC 2 at 9 pm
I hope they are not just another apologetic essays on doctirines of Islam.
I would rather watch Devdas. Shah Rukh Khan is much more interesting than Ziauddin Sardar.
Omrow
men who are into bollywood are known for being mouses
i'm not surprised that the omro is into it