Sufism

OmrowThey are trying to pressure the poor girl into doing something she doesn't want to do.

I was only suggesting a particular book.

yuit

The Prophet (saaw) reportedly said,

"Beware of excessiveness in religion before you have perished as a result of such excessiveness in religion." (Reported by Ahmad)

Allah states in the Quran that He,

"Intends every facility for you; He does not want to put you in difficulties". (HQ 2:185)

"Religion," the Prophet is reported to have said, "is very easy, and whoever overburdens himself will not be able to continue in that way. Be right (without excessiveness or negligence), near (perfection, and have good timing (in being rewarded for your regular deeds)." (Bukhari) The people of the Book were warned: " O people of the Book, commit no excesses in your religion, nor say of Allah anything but the Truth...." 4:171. He warns the Muslims likewise: "O' you who believe! Make not unlawful the good things, which Allah has made lawful for you, and commit no excess; for Allah loves not those given to excess." (HQ 5:87)

Tut tut,

These quotes were given in an article about extremism related to secterianism.

Beast

yuit

The Prophet (saaw) reportedly said,

"Beware of excessiveness in religion before you have perished as a result of such excessiveness in religion." (Reported by Ahmad)

Allah states in the Quran that He,

"Intends every facility for you; He does not want to put you in difficulties". (HQ 2:185)

"Religion," the Prophet is reported to have said, "is very easy, and whoever overburdens himself will not be able to continue in that way. Be right (without excessiveness or negligence), near (perfection, and have good timing (in being rewarded for your regular deeds)." (Bukhari) The people of the Book were warned: " O people of the Book, commit no excesses in your religion, nor say of Allah anything but the Truth...." 4:171. He warns the Muslims likewise: "O' you who believe! Make not unlawful the good things, which Allah has made lawful for you, and commit no excess; for Allah loves not those given to excess." (HQ 5:87)

Tut tut,

These quotes were given in an article about extremism related to secterianism.

lol I actually didn't get the quote from that particular article, but it seem the person much have copy and paste it. However the point IMO are roughly the same, plus i only put them up after reading what the following websites said, which talks about extremism in the following three forms ghuluw (excessiveness), tanattu' (trangressing; meticulous religiosity) and tashdid (strictness; austerity). .

Extremism

Salaam

Guys don’t be quick to dismiss stuff as being extreme.

I read the story Ramz is referring to in one of Sheikh Abdul Qadir Jillani’s books (the founder of Sufism)….I thought the story was so beautiful.

There were two people who were madly in love and begged Allah (swt) to make their marriage possible…Allah (swt) answered their request so on the first night of marriage the couple stayed up together on the musalla (prayer mat) thanking Allah (swt)… and for the rest of their life that’s how they spent the rest of their nights together too.

This story to me, manifests true gratefulness to God. When we are given something that we wanted so badly do we thank Allah (swt) as much?

The stories narrated by Awliyas are not always meant to be taken literally. The point of the story is not to say that the actions of that couple should be copied by every muslim couple, rather the roots and intention behind their action should be aspired to and emulated. Look at the extreme high level of love this couple had for Allah (swt)…and compare it with your own. Don’t get bogged down with the details of the story.

Another thing, what is moderation? When we speak about Islam being the middle path and how we should avoid excessiveness and extremism whose standards are we measuring this by?

The four main principles of Sufism are
-Eat less
-Speak less
-Sleep less
-Associate with people less

Our pious predecessors had fully implemented these practices into their lives. When Hadrat Fatima (ra) would spent her winter nights prostrating on her Mussula (prayer mat) was she being extreme? Imam Abu Hanifah was known to read his fajr Salaah with his Isha wudu…..and since many of us are used to not getting out of bed before 10.am we would see that as being “extreme”.

Hadrat Behlol has said that “any moment not spent in the remembrance of the Beloved (Allah) is a moment wasted”. The Awliya’s were known to put pebbles in their mouths and would restrain themselves in their homes so that they wouldn’t indulge in unnecessary speech.

…..I read a story in Mawlana Rumi’s Mathanawi about a Sufi who used to eat 10 loaves of bread at one time…he was told that one should adopt the middle path….he pointed out that he had an appetite for 20 loaves of bread so he was adopting the middle path by only eating 10….. The point I’m trying to make is that “extremism ,excessiveness and the middle path” is relative

We all love our food and sleep and the word sacrifice is alien to us. Too many of us are slaves of our desires….Sufism is all about gaining the raza (pleasure) of Allah (swt). Its all about preferring Him above everything…And one gains the pleasure of Allah (swt) by doing more than what is obligatory.

Allah (swt) says “My slave keeps on coming closer to Me through performing Nawafil (voluntary prayers or doing extra deeds besides what is obligatory) until I love him, (so much so that) I become his hearing with which he hears, and his sight with which he sees, and his hand with which he strikes, and his leg with which he walks; and if he asks Me something, I will surely give him, and if he seeks My Protection (refuge), I will surely protect him".

Wasalaam

MuslimSisterSalaam

Guys don’t be quick to dismiss stuff as being extreme.

Well I was talking about it being extreme in relation to many of us today, especially when first learning about islam, reading and hearing these story can be scary. I know if i read it, it would scare me off. But in time everything gradually become more acceptable as faith increases over time and the impossible become possible. I was just trying to point out what islam says about burnout, because it is something alot of muslim who become praticing suffer from. They feel they can take on the world when infact they can't.

But I agree with the rest u wrote about, reading about how the past generation were dedicated to islam, should really inspire us.

yuit

Well I was talking about it being extreme in relation to many of us today, especially when first learning about islam, reading and hearing these story can be scary. I know if i read it, it would scare me off. .

I see where you're coming from...I agree with you on the getting burned out point. But we'd get no where in life if we measured stuff in relation to our own selves or the current norms of society.

Lol-That story isnt scary..its well deep. I heard it being explained by a scholar in a study circle once. It brought tears to my eyes.

MuslimSister

yuit

Well I was talking about it being extreme in relation to many of us today, especially when first learning about islam, reading and hearing these story can be scary. I know if i read it, it would scare me off. .

I see where you're coming from...I agree with you on the getting burned out point. But we'd get no where in life if we measured stuff in relation to our own selves or the current norms of society.

Lol-That story isnt scary..its well deep. I heard it being explained by a scholar in a study circle once. It brought tears to my eyes.

True, we shouldn't really compare ourselves against today norms, but saying that, i remember when i first got interested in islam, was the way it all made sense too me. It seem so easy. In time it ok to go deeper, but i be wary to talk about such level of ibadah when people first come into islam.

I never heard the story you going on about too be honest, so i not really commenting on that, enlightening me.

MuslimSisterI read the story Ramz is referring to in one of Sheikh Abdul Qadir Jillani’s books (the founder of Sufism)….I thought the story was so beautiful.

There were two people who were madly in love and begged Allah (swt) to make their marriage possible…Allah (swt) answered their request so on the first night of marriage the couple stayed up together on the musalla (prayer mat) thanking Allah (swt)… and for the rest of their life that’s how they spent the rest of their nights together too.

MuslimSis, are u referring to this part of Ramz post:

RamzThere was one story about a man who never had an intercourse with his wife after he married her for the rest of his life even though he loved her.

:?:

Yes.

MuslimSisterYes.

but the whole point of marriage (islamicly) is fulfilling ones desires in a halaal manner, and procreation.... :?

I guess the story is about companionship and how their love for each other was a mean to pleasing allah through their ibadah and constant devotion to Allah swt. Which is a nice story and everything, but the world would be in great trouble if everyone took that approach. :?

not everyone would be able 2 do that anyway because small ppl like us have not reached such a high status of faith that we are able 2 constantly day and night spend every second of our lives in the rememberance and worship of Allah - these are special and very very great ppl we are talking about...not ppl like us

True, but if we were to follow the example of the Prophet, which is the highest example possible for us too follow, the act that marriage incoporate, are form of ibadah as well. Infact there are various hadith on this matter as well. Plus for what i know, the prophet had sexual relations with all his wives.

true marriage is a form of worship - it is also the sunnah of the greatest of mankind (peace be upon Him and His family).

But i guess this story of these 2 ppl shows their high level of Iman due to the fact they could control their desires even though they were married and were in a position 2 fulfill them - they still chose not 2

Yes, but just a question in general. Why would this act be seen as a praisworthy act for. The guideline of marriage have long been set and there is nothing wrong with it, infact men have the option of having 4 wives. So why is teh idea of refraining from something that is lawful and infact a sunnah, seen as something good for you. I never heard of the story, so i hoping the people who have can enlighten me.

muslim_kurithe fact they could control their desires even though they were married and were in a position 2 fulfill them - they still chose not 2

i'm sorry if i'm being completely ignorant here, but how is that^ in any way 'good'? there is a point behind marriage - Islam recognises that human beings have certain desires, and we are rewarded for fulfilling these desires within the sanctity of marriage. :|

yuit pointed out the highest of examples, the most practising muslim there ever could be - Muhammed (s.a.w). we know of incidents where he (s.a.w) would stand all night in prayer till his feet got swollen, yet he did not do it to the extent where people around him felt neglected in any way. Islam puts great emphasis on our interactions with people around us, as well as our interaction with Allah (s.w.t).

Aasiyah

muslim_kurithe fact they could control their desires even though they were married and were in a position 2 fulfill them - they still chose not 2

i'm sorry if i'm being completely ignorant here, but how is that^ in any way 'good'? there is a point behind marriage - Islam recognises that human beings have certain desires, and we are rewarded for fulfilling these desires within the sanctity of marriage. :|

exactly... must not neglect others...

...

must reech out...

and pat wifey on the head for ...

everything she does....

...

now... must go back to sleep..... 😃

yuitYes, but just a question in general. Why would this act be seen as a praisworthy act for. The guideline of marriage have long been set and there is nothing wrong with it, infact men have the option of having 4 wives. So why is teh idea of refraining from something that is lawful and infact a sunnah, seen as something good for you. I never heard of the story, so i hoping the people who have can enlighten me.

its the 1st time iv heard the story - of course theres nothing wrong with the guidelines of marriage and like i said before marriage is a form of worship.

in the case of this story IMO it comes across as the 2 ppl are both happy with spending all their time in gratitude 2 Allah Almighty 4 blessing them with the gift of marriage...I dont see that as a bad thing but that doesnt mean I recommend everyone ta do it!

Aasiyahi'm sorry if i'm being completely ignorant here, but how is that^ in any way 'good'? there is a point behind marriage - Islam recognises that human beings have certain desires, and we are rewarded for fulfilling these desires within the sanctity of marriage.

yuit pointed out the highest of examples, the most practising muslim there ever could be - Muhammed (s.a.w). we know of incidents where he (s.a.w) would stand all night in prayer till his feet got swollen, yet he did not do it to the extent where people around him felt neglected in any way. Islam puts great emphasis on our interactions with people around us, as well as our interaction with Allah (s.w.t).

in the case of this story it seems both wife and husband spent all their time thanking Allah - so they both were happy with that...one was not neglecting the other because both of them willingly spent their time in gratitude and if they decide ta do that then whats wrong with it? the point of the story was that we should be grateful 2 Allah....not 2 start a debate about whether its right or not...

muslim_kuriin the case of this story it seems both wife and husband spent all their time thanking Allah - so they both were happy with that...one was not neglecting the other because both of them willingly spent their time in gratitude and if they decide ta do that then whats wrong with it? the point of the story was that we should be grateful 2 Allah....not 2 start a debate about whether its right or not...

whats wrong with it is that they did not fulfill one of the main reasons of marriage - procreation. enlarging the ummah by raising pious muslim children would have been another way of showing their gratitude to Allah (s.w.t).

Aasiyahwhats wrong with it is that they did not fulfill one of the main reasons of marriage - procreation. enlarging the ummah by raising pious muslim children would have been another way of showing their gratitude to Allah (s.w.t).

true i would defo go with that way of gratitude myself 😂 but i think the wisdom behind the story is 2 emphasise the importance of thanking Allah Almighty and i also agree that it wont be good if every1 started doing it this way - but then thats why i said even if someone would 4 whatever reason want 2 take that approach they wouldnt be able 2 because of weak Iman....because u have 2 admit spending all your time remembering Allah and not thinking about your own desires does take a lot whether right or wrong.

Does anyone even know if this is a real story or just a 'story'.

MuslimSister
I read the story Ramz is referring to in one of Sheikh Abdul Qadir Jillani’s books (the founder of Sufism)….I thought the story was so beautiful.

There were two people who were madly in love and begged Allah (swt) to make their marriage possible…Allah (swt) answered their request so on the first night of marriage the couple stayed up together on the musalla (prayer mat) thanking Allah (swt)… and for the rest of their life that’s how they spent the rest of their nights together too.

thats where the story is from - if it wasn't true i doubt it would be mentioned in the book

I've heard it said that some 'Islamic' stories are not based on actual events but are just aids used to make a point. :?

The thing is... Islamically you are not supposed to go around bragging about personal matters. It could all be that the details were not spilt.

So they stayed up all night praying... What about the days?

How were they praying?

The story regarding the married couple never fulfilling their desires is one ive heard in a jalsa in mosque.

The way it was explained was, they were both hafiz of quran, and they would read the quraan to each other etc, but they never fulfilled their desire because they muchrather enjoyed hearing each other recite quran, and they preffered to worship Allah swt together.

This along with many other stories are of such anature that we, especially in a society like ours cannot understand them. We do not understand them, and we dont try to understand.

You should try to understand the reason behind what they did, instead of dismissing it as something which shudnt be done, and sayin it goes against sunnah etc.

I am not an awliya, i have not given my entire life and given up all i possess to islam, like great people of the past, and great people today have done. So dont try to understand them, until you become one of them, and if you never become from amongst them, then u will never understand their actions.

MuslimSis, one is well impressed with your story, it brought tears to ones eye, my eyes have been dry for a while b4 now 8)

One thanks one 🙂

razor
This along with many other stories are of such anature that we, especially in a society like ours cannot understand them. We do not understand them, and we dont try to understand.

You should try to understand the reason behind what they did, instead of dismissing it as something which shudnt be done, and sayin it goes against sunnah etc.

😃

razorI am not an awliya

Ofcourse you are not an awliya. You are a SINGLE person.

I would say Every single muslim to some extent or other is a wali (Friend of Allah).

We may not be good friends, but atleast we are on the right road.

Admin

razorI am not an awliya

Ofcourse you are not an awliya. You are a SINGLE person.

I would say Every single muslim to some extent or other is a wali (Friend of Allah).

We may not be good friends, but atleast we are on the right road.

preach on bruda!! preach on!

Yes we are not awliya in one way but in another way we are. This aint the place to get into linguistics and terminology.

Having read the posts above I remembered a book by the Majlis ul Ulama, in particular I thought that a portion of the introduction of the book would be useful. Hence for the benefit of us all I quote it below:

In this book of Episodes of Allah’s Aarifeen, numerous incidents which cultivate a yearning for the spiritual sojourn have been narrated. It is not possible to practically follow every path and practice of the Auliyaa or the elite members of the spiritual kingdom. Certain acts apply exclusively to the Saint about whom these are related. The purpose of the stories of the Auliyaa is primarily to gain the fervour and yearning to follow the path which leads to Allah Ta`ala and everlasting success and salvation in the Aakhirah. And that Path is only the Shariah of Islam.

While every act and practice of the Auliyaa is based on the Sunnah, every man cannot imitate them in exactitude. The total austerity and renunciation (zuhd) which some Auliyaa practised cannot be adopted by all and sundry. But, the minimum Fardh (compulsory) requirement in this sphere is to renounce the world to the extent that it does not interfere with the Mu`min’s strict observance of the Shariah and the cultivation of Taqwa. Then, whomever Allah Ta`ala desires to honour with greater spiritual elevation, he will progress in that direction by way of Divine Guidance, for the Real and True Sheikh is only Allah Azza Wa Jal. But in this world He has created intermediaries for our ease.

May Allah Ta`ala accept this humble effort and guide those who read it with sincerity.

MUJLISUL ULAMA OF SOUTH AFRICA

MUHARRAM 1422 (APRIL 2001)

http://books.themajlis.net/node/165

Hadrat Mawlana has expressed my sentiments on this issue entirely.

Hope you find the above useful in understanding the apparent ''extreme'' acts of some Awliya ALLAH.

BeastDoes anyone even know if this is a real story or just a 'story'.

good Q.

BeastI've heard it said that some 'Islamic' stories are not based on actual events but are just aids used to make a point. :?

same here. :?

Yeh sorry i meant to say Wali not auliya, Admin the nitpicker/finicky one, noticed it 😃

For once i semi agree with Med, Med enjoy this day, someone on the forum actually semi-agreed with you today, first and possibly last tym 😃

Im joking bro dnt worry.