Young. British. Female. Muslim.
An interesting article/comment on the Times websote that is a good read I think - accounts from a few people who have converted to Islam. What they have in common is that they are young, free thinking and female - the article mentions how 2/3rd of converts to Islam in the UK are female.
The conversion of people to Islam really does challenge those prejudiced against it, but at the same time their hatred of Islam may even help promote Islam - if you are confronted with something you are more likely to research it and sometimes even if you are researching a matter in order to refute it the innate beauty of Islam can still win out and overcome the prejudice with actual fact and knowledge.
I should link to this as I do other news stories, but Murdoch Media (TM) is probably going to be behind a paywall within a few short days... so quoted in full:
Thousands of young British women living in the UK decide to convert to Islam - here are some of their stories
It’s a controversial time for British women to be wearing the hijab, the basic Muslim headscarf. Last month, Belgium became the first European country to pass legislation to ban the burka (the most concealing of Islamic veils), calling it a “threat” to female dignity, while France looks poised to follow suit. In Italy earlier this month, a Muslim woman was fined €500 (£430) for wearing the Islamic veil outside a post office.
And yet, while less than 2 per cent of the population now attends a Church of England service every week, the number of female converts to Islam is on the rise. At the London Central Mosque in Regent’s Park, women account for roughly two thirds of the “New Muslims” who make their official declarations of faith there – and most of them are under the age of 30.
Conversion statistics are frustratingly patchy, but at the time of the 2001 Census, there were at least 30,000 British Muslim converts in the UK. According to Kevin Brice, of the Centre for Migration Policy Research, Swansea University, this number may now be closer to 50,000 – and the majority are women. “Basic analysis shows that increasing numbers of young, university-educated women in their twenties and thirties are converting to Islam,” confirms Brice.
“Our liberal, pluralistic 21st-century society means we can choose our careers, our politics – and we can pick and choose who we want to be spiritually,” explains Dr Mohammad S. Seddon, lecturer in Islamic Studies at the University of Chester. We’re in an era of the “religious supermarket”, he says.
Joanne Bailey
Solicitor, 30, Bradford
“The first time I wore my hijab into the office, I was so nervous, I stood outside on the phone to my friend for ages going, ‘What on earth is everyone going to say?’ When I walked in, a couple of people asked, ‘Why are you wearing that scarf? I didn’t know you were a Muslim.’
“I’m the last person you’d expect to convert to Islam: I had a very sheltered, working-class upbringing in South Yorkshire. I’d hardly even seen a Muslim before I went to university.
“In my first job at a solicitor’s firm in Barnsley, I remember desperately trying to play the role of the young, single, career woman: obsessively dieting, shopping and going to bars – but I never felt truly comfortable.
“Then one afternoon in 2004 everything changed: I was chatting to a Muslim friend over coffee, when he noticed the little gold crucifix around my neck. He said, ‘Do you believe in God, then?’ I wore it more for fashion than religion and said, ‘No, I don’t think so,’ and he started talking about his faith.
“I brushed him off at first, but his words stuck in my mind. A few days later, I found myself ordering a copy of the Koran on the internet.
“It took me a while to work up the courage to go to a women’s social event run by the Leeds New Muslims group. I remember hovering outside the door thinking, ‘What the hell am I doing here?’ I imagined they would be dressed head-to-toe in black robes: what could I, a 25-year-old, blonde English girl, possibly have in common with them?
“But when I walked in, none of them fitted the stereotype of the oppressed Muslim housewife; they were all doctors, teachers and psychiatrists. I was struck by how content and secure they seemed. It was meeting these women, more than any of the books I read, that convinced me that I wanted to become a Muslim.
“After four years, in March 2008, I made the declaration of faith at a friend’s house. At first, I was anxious that I hadn’t done the right thing, but I soon relaxed into it – a bit like starting a new job.
“A few months later, I sat my parents down and said, ‘I’ve got something to tell you.’ There was a silence and my mum said, ‘You’re going to become Muslim, aren’t you?’ She burst into tears and kept asking things like, ‘What happens when you get married? Do you have to cover up? What about your job?’ I tried to reassure her that I’d still be me, but she was concerned for my welfare.
“Contrary to what most people think, Islam doesn’t oppress me; it lets me be the person that I was all along. Now I’m so much more content and grateful for the things I’ve got. A few months ago, I got engaged to a Muslim solicitor I met on a training course. He has absolutely no problem with my career, but I do agree with the Islamic perspective on the traditional roles for men and women. I want to look after my husband and children, but I also want my independence. I’m proud to be British and I’m proud to be Muslim – and I don’t see them as conflicting in any way.”
Aqeela Lindsay Wheeler
Housewife and mother, 26, Leicester
“As a teenager I thought all religion was pathetic. I used to spend every weekend getting drunk outside the leisure centre, in high-heeled sandals and miniskirts. My view was: what’s the point in putting restrictions on yourself? You only live once.
“At university, I lived the typical student existence, drinking and going clubbing, but I’d always wake up the next morning with a hangover and think, what’s the point?
“It wasn’t until my second year that I met Hussein. I knew he was a Muslim, but we were falling in love, so I brushed the whole issue of religion under the carpet. But six months into our relationship, he told me that being with me was ‘against his faith’.
“I was so confused. That night I sat up all night reading two books on Islam that Hussein had given me. I remember bursting into tears because I was so overwhelmed. I thought, ‘This could be the whole meaning of life.’ But I had a lot of questions: why should I cover my head? Why can’t I eat what I like?
“I started talking to Muslim women at university and they completely changed my view. They were educated, successful – and actually found the headscarf liberating. I was convinced, and three weeks later officially converted to Islam.
“When I told my mum a few weeks later, I don’t think she took it seriously. She made a few comments like, ‘Why would you wear that scarf? You’ve got lovely hair,’ but she didn’t seem to understand what it meant.
“My best friend at university completely turned on me: she couldn’t understand how one week I was out clubbing, and the next I’d given everything up and converted to Islam. She was too close to my old life, so I don’t regret losing her as a friend.
“I chose the name Aqeela because it means ‘sensible and intelligent’ – and that’s what I was aspiring to become when I converted to Islam six years ago. I became a whole new person: everything to do with Lindsay, I’ve erased from my memory.
“The most difficult thing was changing the way I dressed, because I was always so fashion-conscious. The first time I tried on the hijab, I remember sitting in front of the mirror, thinking, ‘What am I doing putting a piece of cloth over my head? I look crazy!’ Now I’d feel naked without it and only occasionally daydream about feeling the wind blow through my hair. Once or twice, I’ve come home and burst into tears because of how frumpy I feel – but that’s just vanity.
“It’s a relief not to feel that pressure any more. Wearing the hijab reminds me that all I need to do is serve God and be humble. I’ve even gone through phases of wearing the niqab [face veil] because I felt it was more appropriate – but it can cause problems, too.
“When people see a white girl wearing a niqab they assume I’ve stuck my fingers up at my own culture to ‘follow a bunch of Asians’. I’ve even had teenage boys shout at me in the street, ‘Get that s*** off your head, you white bastard.’ After the London bombings, I was scared to walk about in the streets for fear of retaliation.
“For the most part, I have a very happy life. I married Hussein and now we have a one-year-old son, Zakir. We try to follow the traditional Muslim roles: I’m foremost a housewife and mother, while he goes out to work. I used to dream of having a successful career as a psychologist, but now it’s not something I desire.
“Becoming a Muslim certainly wasn’t an easy way out. This life can sometimes feel like a prison, with so many rules and restrictions, but we believe that we will be rewarded in the afterlife.”
Catherine Heseltine
Nursery school teacher, 31, North London
“If you’d asked me at the age of 16 if I’d like to become a Muslim, I would have said, ‘No thanks.’ I was quite happy drinking, partying and fitting in with my friends.
“Growing up in North London, we never practised religion at home; I always thought it was slightly old-fashioned and irrelevant. But when I met my future husband, Syed, in the sixth form, he challenged all my preconceptions. He was young, Muslim, believed in God – and yet he was normal. The only difference was that, unlike most teenage boys, he never drank.
“A year later, we were head over heels in love, but we quickly realised: how could we be together if he was a Muslim and I wasn’t?
“Before meeting Syed, I’d never actually questioned what I believed in; I’d just picked up my casual agnosticism through osmosis. So I started reading a few books on Islam out of curiosity.
“In the beginning, the Koran appealed to me on an intellectual level; the emotional and spiritual side didn’t come until later. I loved its explanations of the natural world and discovered that 1,500 years ago, Islam gave women rights that they didn’t have here in the West until relatively recently. It was a revelation.
“Religion wasn’t exactly a ‘cool’ thing to talk about, so for three years I kept my interest in Islam to myself. But in my first year at university, Syed and I decided to get married – and I knew it was time to tell my parents. My mum’s initial reaction was, ‘Couldn’t you just live together first?’ She had concerns about me rushing into marriage and the role of women in Muslim households – but no one realised how seriously I was taking my religious conversion. I remember going out for dinner with my dad and him saying, ‘Go on, have a glass of wine. I won’t tell Syed!’ A lot of people assumed I was only converting to Islam to keep his family happy, not because I believed in it.
“Later that year, we had an enormous Bengali wedding, and moved into a flat together – but I certainly wasn’t chained to the kitchen sink. I didn’t even wear the hijab at all to start with, and wore a bandana or a hat instead.
“I was used to getting a certain amount of attention from guys when I went out to clubs and bars, but I had to let that go. I gradually adopted the Islamic way of thinking: I wanted people to judge me for my intelligence and my character – not for the way I looked. It was empowering.
“I’d never been part of a religious minority before, so that was a big adjustment, but my friends were very accepting. Some of them were a bit shocked: ‘What, no drink, no drugs, no men? I couldn’t do that!’ And it took a while for my male friends at university to remember things like not kissing me hello on the cheek any more. I’d have to say, ‘Sorry, it’s a Muslim thing.’
“Over time, I actually became more religious than my husband. We started growing apart in other ways, too. In the end, I think the responsibility of marriage was too much for him; he became distant and disengaged. After seven years together, I decided to get a divorce.
“When I moved back in with my parents, people were surprised I was still wandering around in a headscarf. But if anything, being on my own strengthened my faith: I began to gain a sense of myself as a Muslim, independent of him.
“Islam has given me a sense of direction and purpose. I’m involved with the Muslim Public Affairs Committee, and lead campaigns against Islamophobia, discrimination against women in mosques, poverty and the situation in Palestine. When people call us ‘extremists’ or ‘the dark underbelly of British politics’, I just think it’s ridiculous. There are a lot of problems in the Muslim community, but when people feel under siege it makes progress even more difficult.
“I still feel very much part of white British society, but I am also a Muslim. It has taken a while to fit those two identities together, but now I feel very confident being who I am. I’m part of both worlds and no one can take that away from me.”
Sukina Douglas
Spoken-word poet, 28, London
“Before I found Islam, my gaze was firmly fixed on Africa. I was raised a Rastafarian and used to have crazy-long dreadlocks: one half blonde and the other half black.
“Then, in 2005, my ex-boyfriend came back from a trip to Africa and announced that he’d converted to Islam. I was furious and told him he was ‘losing his African roots’. Why was he trying to be an Arab? It was so foreign to how I lived my life. Every time I saw a Muslim woman in the street I thought, ‘Why do they have to cover up like that? Aren’t they hot?’ It looked oppressive to me.
“Islam was already in my consciousness, but when I started reading the autobiography of Malcolm X at university, something opened up inside me. One day I said to my best friend, Muneera, ‘I’m falling in love with Islam.’ She laughed and said, ‘Be quiet, Sukina!’ She only started exploring Islam to prove me wrong, but soon enough she started believing it, too.
“I was always passionate about women’s rights; there was no way I would have entered a religion that sought to degrade me. So when I came across a book by a Moroccan feminist, it unravelled all my negative opinions: Islam didn’t oppress women; people did.
“Before I converted, I conducted an experiment. I covered up in a long gypsy skirt and headscarf and went out. But I didn’t feel frumpy; I felt beautiful. I realised, I’m not a sexual commodity for men to lust after; I want to be judged for what I contribute mentally.
“Muneera and I took our shahada [declaration of faith] together a few months later, and I cut my dreadlocks off to represent renewal: it was the beginning of a new life.
“Just three weeks after our conversion, the 7/7 bombings happened; suddenly we were public enemy No 1. I’d never experienced racism in London before, but in the weeks after the bombs, people would throw eggs at me and say, ‘Go back to your own country,’ even though this was my country.
“I’m not trying to shy away from any aspect of who I am. Some people dress in Arabian or Pakistani styles, but I’m British and Caribbean, so my national dress is Primark and Topshop, layered with colourful charity-shop scarves.
“Six months after I converted, I got back together with my ex-boyfriend, and now we’re married. Our roles in the home are different, because we are different people, but he would never try to order me around; that’s not how I was raised.
“Before I found Islam, I was a rebel without a cause, but now I have a purpose in life: I can identify my flaws and work towards becoming a better person. To me, being a Muslim means contributing to your society, no matter where you come from.”
Catherine Huntley
Retail assistant, 21, Bournemouth
“My parents always thought I was abnormal, even before I became a Muslim. In my early teens, they’d find me watching TV on a Friday night and say, ‘What are you doing at home? Haven’t you got any friends to go out with?’
“The truth was: I didn’t like alcohol, I’ve never tried smoking and I wasn’t interested in boys. You’d think they’d have been pleased.
“I’ve always been quite a spiritual person, so when I started studying Islam in my first year of GCSEs, something just clicked. I would spend every lunchtime reading about Islam on the computer. I had peace in my heart and nothing else mattered any more. It was a weird experience – I’d found myself, but the person I found wasn’t like anyone else I knew.
“I’d hardly ever seen a Muslim before, so I didn’t have any preconceptions, but my parents weren’t so open-minded. I hid all my Muslim books and headscarves in a drawer, because I was so scared they’d find out.
“When I told my parents, they were horrified and said, ‘We’ll talk about it when you’re 18.’ But my passion for Islam just grew stronger. I started dressing more modestly and would secretly fast during Ramadan. I got very good at leading a double life until one day, when I was 17, I couldn’t wait any longer.
“I sneaked out of the house, put my hijab in a carrier bag and got on the train to Bournemouth. I must have looked completely crazy putting it on in the train carriage, using a wastebin lid as a mirror. When a couple of old people gave me dirty looks, I didn’t care. For the first time in my life, I felt like myself.
“A week after my conversion, my mum came marching into my room and said, ‘Have you got something to tell me?’ She pulled my certificate of conversion out of her pocket. I think they’d rather have found anything else at that point – drugs, cigarettes, condoms – because at least they could have put it down to teenage rebellion.
“I could see the fear in her eyes. She couldn’t comprehend why I’d want to give up my freedom for the sake of a foreign religion. Why would I want to join all those terrorists and suicide bombers?
“It was hard being a Muslim in my parents’ house. I’ll never forget one evening, there were two women in burkas on the front page of the newspaper, and they started joking, ‘That’ll be Catherine soon.’
“They didn’t like me praying five times a day either; they thought it was ‘obsessive’. I’d pray right in front of my bedroom door so my mum couldn’t walk in, but she would always call upstairs, ‘Catherine, do you want a cup of tea?’ just so I’d have to stop.
“Four years on, my grandad still says things like, ‘Muslim women have to walk three steps behind their husbands.’ It gets me really angry, because that’s the culture, not the religion. My fiancé, whom I met eight months ago, is from Afghanistan and he believes that a Muslim woman is a pearl and her husband is the shell that protects her. I value that old-fashioned way of life: I’m glad that when we get married he’ll take care of paying the bills. I always wanted to be a housewife anyway.
“Marrying an Afghan man was the cherry on the cake for my parents. They think I’m completely crazy now. He’s an accountant and actually speaks better English than I do, but they don’t care. The wedding will be in a mosque, so I don’t think they’ll come. It hurts to think I’ll never have that fairytale wedding, surrounded by my family. But I hope my new life with my husband will be a lot happier. I’ll create the home I’ve always wanted, without having to feel the pain of people judging me.”
Taken from TimesOnline
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
[quote=You]There is probably a lot more overlap than it seems here.
It seems that we both agree that some parts of shariah would not be enforced on Non muslims.
It also seems she agrees that muslims do commit sins in the Muslim world too (but I would disagree on the statements of collusion - alcohol is not allowed for Muslims atleast in many parts of it but that has not stopped everyone).
Apart from that, I would guess it would depend on how British is defined - and I think that definition changes over time, location and circumstance/situation, so context matters. her view is that it has a fixed definition (which we have not been informed of yet, except for quotes about how things are defined...) and sicne that unmentioned definition is unislamic, you cannot be both.
Atleast that is what i make of it.[/quote]
I don't get why people, not just Muslims, all people
Take British to mean anything more than a nationality.
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
[quote=MakeMeRawr_7TeenF]
I don't get why people, not just Muslims, all people
Take British to mean anything more than a nationality.
[/quote]
Because you need something to bring cohesiveness and build a society rather than having a group of individuals with no commonality - it's like milk or water in a cake recipe. National identities do that for nation states otherwise their societies fragment back into individuals and their is no society! Before this bond was created after the treaty of Westphalia, social and political identities were built around religion. They are all part of the secularisation (marginalisation of religion from the public domain) of Europe I guess...
Islam provides us with a political identity - Islam - loyalty to one Caliph who rules by Islam which binds us commonly together as one society.
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
[quote=MakeMeRawr_7TeenF]Interesting discussion, you both have very valid points. Too valid i'd say, makes it very confusing.
Is there any way both views could co-exist in peace?
Is there an actual conclusion? Since they're both opposites, one must be right and the other wrong, without going around in circles how could you decipher that?
Maybe by both of you citing your scholars and sources and then people can see who they trust more?
[/quote]
Well that would be the sane thing to do... but somehow i doubt thats going to happen here.
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
[quote=Seraphim]
Well that would be the sane thing to do... but somehow i doubt thats going to happen here.[/quote]
Quite easily done - from the time of the Prophet(saw) and all the classical scholars they advocated a social political identity based on allegiance to a Caliph who applied Allah's laws. Not one advocated non-religious social political identities.
Secularists, nationalists and modernists relatively recently have started to tell us that our identities are Paks, Turks, Nigerians, Libyans, Tunisians, Qataris, Bangladeshis... And even more recently, we should adopt socio-political identities such as Brits, Americans, French etc all of which require loyalties to sovereign nations and man made laws, cultures, systems, histories, and homelands.
Take your pick...
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
I assume that you realise that each and every individual is not a signatory of the treaty of Wesphalia.
That is not Gospel.
What binds people is that people need to live peacable in the same places and coexist.
There is no requirement of a borg like British identity - it is multicultural, meaning that different cultures and different ideals live side by side.
The treaty of westphalia or whatever may even help us here because the idea is that if you need to participate, you are not turned away or persecuted simply because your sets of beliefs are diffrerent - this was a major problem in europe before as the fortunes of people would change, lifespans would be altered, depending on whether the new leadership was protestant or catholic in creed. This same issue did not exist in the Muslim world, so the same thing never happened there, but that is because there was respect already built into the system - Islam already allowed Christians and Jews of all denominations to freely practice their faith.
What the treaty did was bring the christian world to the status that was in the Muslim world already.
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
[quote=Anonymous1][quote=Seraphim]
Well that would be the sane thing to do... but somehow i doubt thats going to happen here.[/quote]
Quite easily done - from the time of the Prophet(saw) and all the classical scholars they advocated a social political identity based on allegiance to a Caliph who applied Allah's laws. Not one advocated non-religious social political identities.
Secularists, nationalists and modernists relatively recently have started to tell us that our identities are Paks, Turks, Nigerians, Libyans, Tunisians, Qataris, Bangladeshis... And even more recently, we should adopt socio-political identities such as Brits, Americans, French etc all of which require loyalties to sovereign nations and man made laws, cultures, systems, histories, and homelands.
Take your pick...[/quote]
You've just totally missed the point of my post... im embarrassed for the both of us.
Please re-read my post and reply accordingly.
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
//You've just totally missed the point of my post... im embarrassed for the both of us.
Please re-read my post and reply accordingly. //
Maybe you should clarify what you intend by your post - I addressed what you asked. The kufr nature of natnalistic identities is clear to anyone who has a good grasp of politics. Those who don't, confused it with other identities and give the wrong hukm to it. A mistake easily made.
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
many of the nationalistic identities you mentioned are along ethnic lines too. The qur'an recognises ethnic identities - it even says that people were created in tribes so that they could be known.
More, we know of some sahabis and historical scholars due to where they came from: Hadhrat Salman Farsi (ra), Hadhrat Bilal Habashi (ra), Imam Bukhari. There must be loads of others too.
You are calling identities kufr when the qur'an says that people were created different in order for there to be identities... you should think about that a bit.
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
looks like this site is being hijacked by the HT/al muihajiroun 'academic'....
i'm proud to be a british muslim and so are most muslims in the UK or the elders are proud pakistani/arab muslims etc
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS
we follow quran n sunnah
we dont worship the queen or the government
our nationality doesnt change our islamic values and our adherence to the deen!!!!
dont listen to this rubbish that this is nationalism/kufr.... its coddswollop
nationalism would be if my love /adherence for britain/paksitan would be superior to my love for the deen and quran/sunnah. it would be nationalism if my country came before my deen but nobody claims that! it would be nationalism if british/pakistani culture or law is more important that islamic law- which nobody claims! if being british or pakistani was more important than being muslim then that would be nationalism- but nobody claims that!!!!!
someone who has swalloed a thesarus but is so confused she's trying to confuse others
all we here is saying 'british' is bad, its nationalism, voting is haram, following non muslim law in a non muslim country is kufr,
nation states is unislamic....blah blah blah.....
ive read most of the discussions here and the arguments are weak and if I had the time or interest to discuss with people like this i still wouldnt, why- cos its a complete waste of time. i tried and all i got was insults, fatwas of being secular and hypocrite, liar an da government stooge lol these lot already admit most muslims are secularists, modernists, nationalistic, beleif in kufr, most scholars and organisations are stooges........... in other ones just HT and those who have the same views are guided and the rest are just stupid, thick, misguided, government stooges and dont really understand Islam!!!!!
so why would anyone waste a second with these 'academics'?
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
No need to stoop to tht pevel, 'Ed. The site has not beem hijacked - just an individual who wants to discuss her views and I am at times happy to oblige...
Now where we... the treaty of Westphalia giving people in europe the rights they already had in muslim land.
I don't think we should aiming to become anything like the christian world was pre westphalia... if that is the aim pf the HT, they need to be reminded that s muslims we have a heritage of tolerance which had to ne introduced into europe as a new treaty.
Westphalia is nowhere near the conspiracy that it has been suggested it is. It is just christian europe learning something Muslims knew long before, from the begining even.
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
//our nationality doesnt change our islamic values and our adherence to the deen!//
I would disagree and suggest you research the issue before commenting on it - a political identity (national identity) to provide commonality (in values, orientation and allegiances) to construct a cohesive society is not the same as nationality which is a totally different notion.
Islam provides for a political identity built around religious values to build societies which have never been along the nation state model (that secular philosophies proposed post-westphalia) - this should not be confused with other identities that Islam permits and regulates - eg tribal identities, geographic identities etc
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
[quote=You]Westphalia is nowhere near the conspiracy that it has been suggested it is. It is just christian europe learning something Muslims knew long before, from the begining even.[/quote]
Post Westphalia is taken as the key turning point in Western politics and political thought - anyone who has studied International Relations to graduate/post-graduate knowledge is aware of this.
Ideologies like nationalism (which contructed these identities based around a nation) advocated new bonds to replace religious bonds as social and political bonds between people in a society - thus the two are mutually exclusive.
We are thus either Muslims or we are British - we cannot have socio-political identities that bind us from both ideological traditions - one stating bonds should be secular nationalist and the other saying bonds should be religious. It is no different to the questionable identities of HinduMuslims, ChristianMuslims...
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
It does not matter if it was a turning point - what matters if it was anti Islamic.
I think Westphalia got Europe to move closer to the Islamic by giving religious minorities rights - that is not something that had often been an issue in the Muslim world since rights were given by default.
The Treaty of Westphalia said that say a catholic could come to England under protestant rule and still be allowed to live without oppression.
and yes, that would be a key turning point in a society where such freedoms did not exist before. But they and more existed in the Muslim world already.
So yes, it was a key change. and no, it does not mean that we have to be British OR Muslim.
The treaty was exactly about that - that people did not have to choose one or the other - giving freedom of religion to minorities where none had existed before... it provides that separation between national identity and religious identity that was not present in Europe.
You have to remember that Europe was not on equal standings to the Muslim world - much of it really was in the dark ages and thus such things that were standard in the Muslim world had to be introduced into Europe in order for them to thrive.
So you could say before the treaty of Westphalia people would have had to choose between one and the other as they had been conflated in western Europe - you had to be protestant in a protestant country, or catholic in a catholic country or you had problems. But the treat changed that made sure that was no longer needed.
I know I am repeating myself here, but its multiple attempts to say that the treaty may be the opposite to what you understand it to be.
anyone who has studied International Relations to graduate/post-graduate knowledge is aware of this.
Have you?
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
Maybe you can actually address my post rather than go off on a tangent about the treat of westphalia and its implications (of which you should read some academic texts to understand its implications rather than a one page on wikipedia!).
My post talks about the emergence of new ways to bind societies socio-politically together POST-WESTPHALIA - prior to which had been religion, later became the nation and characteristics associated with that like history, culture, political authority and homeland's with fixed borders.
Are you seriously arguing that the Prophet(saw) ordained nationalistic bonds as opposed to religious bonds? Or are you saying we can dump the bonds Allah(swt) and the Prophet(saw) ordained to bind society together for secular nationalistic bonds?
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
I want to comment on this sentence: "It’s a controversial time for British women to be wearing the hijab, the basic Muslim headscarf.". How can the writer be so ignorant in this time and age where one can have access to an immense library (on the internet)at the click of a mouse to fill knowledge gaps before one embarks on writing about a topic.
Since when hijab has become "the basic Muslim headacarf".
What I want to do here is briefely correct this erroneous statement.
The concept of hijab in Islam is a combination of dress code and behaviour (code of behaviour)for both male and female. The dress code for women is: their whole body (with the exception of their face and hands) must be covered in loose clothing that does not reveal the shape of their body and the fabric should not be see through an not such that it attracts men's attention (eg. flashy colours which would defeat the purpose of hijab). They should not wear make-up or put ornaments that attract men. This must be accompanied by a modest behaviour towards the opposiste sex.
Allah SWT says in Quran: "Tell the believing men to cast down their eyes and tell the believing women to cast down their eyes and draw their veils over their chest".
Believing women display their beauty inside their house to their husband and conceal it outside. What we have in our society is the opposite!
Think for a moment in our society how much more productive we would be if the office time was not wasted in things such as: women going to lavatory to "refresh" their make-up and men actually working instead of sending flirting emails, etc.
Think for a moment how liberated and more productive women would be in their workplace if they did not feel under the pressure to attract, look "sexy", "beautiful", etc.
How different their life would be if the opposite sex spoke to them as a colleague and not as a sex object.
Think for a moment that no woman would ever have to suffer the humiliation of being used then thrown away like garbagge! What a liberation!
The philosophy of hijjab cannot be discussed fully here but at its heart is the aim to protect women and their interests. Their hijab is their shield, their dignity as human beings.
Do not lose your shield my dear sisters in faith /fellow human beings!
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
Young.British.Female.Muslim...In other words confused.
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
Jack The Ripper, it is no good making empty statements without providing an explanation: why being young, British, Female and Muslim is being confuded?!
And by the way before you think I am going on the defensive, I do not fit that category!
Explain yourself please.
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
[quote=kawthar]Jack The Ripper, it is no good making empty statements without providing an explanation: why being young, British, Female and Muslim is being confuded?!
And by the way before you think I am going on the defensive, I do not fit that category!
Explain yourself please.[/quote]
Some say Jilbaab,
Some say Niqaab,
Some say can study,
Some say can't study,
Some say can work,
Some say can't work,
Some say Islam first,
Some say career first,
Some say obey husband,
Some say husband obeys,
Get the picture...
CONFUSED!!
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
you're a nuisance.
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
[quote=Lilly]you're a nuisance.[/quote]
I think he has a point here. Not that all its wrong to call yourself young, British, female and Muslim, or that all such girls are confused. But it can be confusing for some.
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
[quote=Ocean]why is it that when it comes to Muslim Women that they are either TOO Strict TOO laid back? [/quote]
I think it's the case with all Muslims that they're either too strict or too laid back. Noone is the perfect Muslim r they?
But I agree, women get judged more about this (by nonmuslims aswell as Muslims)
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
Its hard to take and stay on the middle path. When you become motivated you wanted to do everything and so make things hard for yourself. Then you're either going to fall back cuz its too much pressure and become laid back or get used to it and feel the need to do more and more.
(My sig is there as a reminder to myself 🙂 )
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
[quote=Lilly]you're a nuisance.[/quote]
There are many other insulting words in the english dictionary, u should try them sometimes...
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
[quote=Jack the Ripper][quote=Lilly]you're a nuisance.[/quote]
There are many other insulting words in the english dictionary, u should try them sometimes...[/quote]
no. i wasnt trying to insult you. I was just typing this on tribune and thought i should let you know, hence, the comment.
@Feef, as i said above. my comment is not linked to his comment, i just meant it in general.
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
[quote=Ocean]
I hate that.
What are you saying that perfect Muslims ideally would be in the middle? ie not too strict or too liberal?[/quote]
What do u hate? Ppl being judgemental? Cos if so, it's always gonna happen & only really affects u if u let it affect u.
Or maybe I'm wrong. Either way, Yh, th middle path is an Islamic principal.
I remember before I was Muslim being really convinced by Aristotle's explanation of the same principal. So when I discovered it's advised as the best course of action for all Muslims I latched onto the idea.
The important thing to remember (as far as I understand) is that the middle action is a) not a 'mathematical' middle, it might sit somewhere closer to 1 extreme than the other b) the Right Thing to do differs for every individual for every situation and c) (ad with everything) Allah (swt) knows best
Re: Young. British. Female. Muslim.
[quote=Lilly][quote=Jack the Ripper][quote=Lilly]you're a nuisance.[/quote]
There are many other insulting words in the english dictionary, u should try them sometimes...[/quote]
no. i wasnt trying to insult you. I was just typing this on tribune and thought i should let you know, hence, the comment.
@Feef, as i said above. my comment is not linked to his comment, i just meant it in general.[/quote]
Thanks for letting me know, I feel priveleged...
There is probably a lot more overlap than it seems here.
It seems that we both agree that some parts of shariah would not be enforced on Non muslims.
It also seems she agrees that muslims do commit sins in the Muslim world too (but I would disagree on the statements of collusion - alcohol is not allowed for Muslims atleast in many parts of it but that has not stopped everyone).
Apart from that, I would guess it would depend on how British is defined - and I think that definition changes over time, location and circumstance/situation, so context matters. her view is that it has a fixed definition (which we have not been informed of yet, except for quotes about how things are defined...) and sicne that unmentioned definition is unislamic, you cannot be both.
Atleast that is what i make of it.