ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:

How do you explain this to a non-believer?

How does the devil 'get inside you/your mind'?

Any way of making it sound rational? (I don't think so)

The devil promised Allah that I will try and misguide your nation in all kinds of ways

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:

Oh, and I'm talking in 'physical' sense.

Then I think it's impossible

CAN it in the physical sense?

"nafs" means "self".

The infusion of bad ideas and the twisting of feelings and emotions to push you one way or another.

i'd say Shaytan makes us think bad acts are good via suggestions. For example if a beautiful woman walked past he might say "go on just have a glance at her, there's no harm you're married anyway"

The trick is to fight back with an argument " one glance will lead to a second and Allah is watching even if my wife is not"

the devil can't make us do anything, he simply suggests things in a clever way. Allah hasn't given shaytan powers to physically make us do anything, its more playing on the mind. That's why we will ultimately be held accountable for our deeds when we meet Allah, not Shaytan (course he will be punished)

sometimes people use personification of the devil and angels, and we even say Allah (swt) 'Sees' and 'Hears'. But these are just labels to describe certain 'actions' in a way completely different to humans.
Shaitan was a jinn. Now, it is unknown what 'form' (if any).

But that is missing the point entirely (for me, anyway). It shouldn't be about a little red man with horns. And a 'whisper' isn't actually a soundwave, its more a metaphor for the way shaitan can affect us, seemingly from nowhere.

People seem to want to draw pictures in their heads but this isn't right.

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:

Ya'qub wrote:

sometimes people use personification of the devil and angels, and we even say Allah (swt) 'Sees' and 'Hears'. But these are just labels to describe certain 'actions' in a way completely different to humans.
Shaitan was a jinn. Now, it is unknown what 'form' (if any).

But that is missing the point entirely (for me, anyway). It shouldn't be about a little red man with horns. And a 'whisper' isn't actually a soundwave, its more a metaphor for the way shaitan can affect us, seemingly from nowhere.

People seem to want to draw pictures in their heads but this isn't right.

I like this perspective

I guess you're right.

So if a non-believer asked you about the devil, would you try and explain? what would you say? Or would you not bother since you know it doesn't sound rational and they won't believe anyway (though they want to understand)

i might start with something like 'as soon as you form any sort of picture in your head, then that is NOT what shaitan is.'

you know...freud... and his ego/id/superego thing? i'd say the nafs is the basic desires for pleasure and doing whatever you want. that might be part of it.

but yeah, if you dont believe in supernatural (And i guess "irrational" stuff) then it'd be hard to explain shaytaam's temptation.

but you could start with the ego thing.

like my nafs makes me want to say the eff word ALL the time. does saying it in my head count?

hasn't freud been largely discredited by now? like, modern-day brain scans describing how the brain works much more accurately?

Ya'qub wrote:

hasn't freud been largely discredited by now? like, modern-day brain scans describing how the brain works much more accurately?

i wouldnt know...

but his theory wasnt abt the physical working of the brain but more of the ..urgh..i cant think.. i just did too much further maths..

i was only proposing an idea.

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:

How do you explain this to a non-believer?

Do you attempt to explain the nafs?

"Is it magic?"

How does the devil 'get inside you/your mind'?

Any way of making it sound rational? (I don't think so)

Ego etc
No magic
Devil not been given power to possess human only whispers
Faith is beyond rational or rather beyond our capabilities to rationalise

Ultimately my belief is the devil only has as much influence on our lives as we allow him wether intentionally or unintentionally Through lack of diligence. As we all know we must always be on our guard against bad and try our hardest to do good. I don't think anyone will be allowed to use him as an excuse on day of judgement that would be too ridiculous then we'd all be exempted from the questioning

+1 i like that reply.....well said Laila

+1 @Laila's reply.

no way we can use shaytaan to get outta of giving in to our sinful desires. as boona mohammad puts it. "even He believes in Allah, so what does that say about you?"

side note: dont you feel like your keyboard is being a bit of a haramist when it just wont let you put a caps on Allah's name? myabe its just me...

Stop plus-oneing! what is this, a google-themed maths game?

but, yeh, agree totally.