General questions

I'm sure there are many similar threads.

A girl near me was annoyed at someones mention of 72 virgins that men are allowed in the afterlife if they die a martyr?

Can someone clarify what the heck that even means?

This link has been described as a fair point on the topic:

Just to emphasise this thread is to tend to all general questions.

It means they will get 72 women of jannah.

They are a new creation, beautiful in the extreme, created for the enjoyment of man. It is said that if a women of jannah (hoor) is to spit into the ocean, the entire ocean will become sweet, if she has to peek from the heavens into this world, the entire space from the heaven to the earth will be filled with her fragrance and all the men of this world would go insane with this scent, and the scarf that she wears on her head is better than the entire world and everything it contains. It is also mentioned that the least beautiful from amongst the hoors is said to be seventy times more beautiful than the most beautiful women ever created in this world. Can you imagine such beauty? I certainly can't.

No, eye has ever seen, nor any mind has ever imagined.

Right. So what is the equivalent reward for female martyrs?

 

s.b.f wrote:
Right. So what is the equivalent reward for female martyrs?

Jannah and anything she wants

Ghost wrote:
s.b.f wrote:
Right. So what is the equivalent reward for female martyrs?

Jannah and anything she wants

Do men get that too?

And what is significant about the number 72?

 

s.b.f wrote:
Ghost wrote:
s.b.f wrote:
Right. So what is the equivalent reward for female martyrs?

Jannah and anything she wants

Do men get that too?

And what is significant about the number 72?

Yes they do, not sure about the number 72, but I see what you getting at.
Why don't women get something extra special right?

The command for jihad and martyrdom is aimed at men, so their specific reward is mentioned. Women are not expected to fight in jihad so their reward has not been mentioned, that does not mean there isn't one. Jannah is indeed a lofty reward, and Allah Swt is most just, none will be wronged even in the least bit.

"hoor's" are not strictly female. that is what they are shown as for men, but there is a male equivalent mentioned too somewhere. I think the specific gendered name for it in some language is "ghilman".

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

That's because too many people answer the questions without researching the matter or from a male dominated position.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

"seeming" is about what is emphasised.

I am reading a book which mentions that while the qur'an mentions both rights and duties, historical literature on many things has focussed solely on duties.

The book is Mustafa Akyol's "Islam without extreme's" and I am too early into it to reccomend it or to whole heartedly agree,but so far it is a good enjoyable read.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:
"seeming" is about what is emphasised.

I am reading a book which mentions that while the qur'an mentions both rights and duties, historical literature on many things has focussed solely on duties.

The book is Mustafa Akyol's "Islam without extreme's" and I am too early into it to reccomend it or to whole heartedly agree,but so far it is a good enjoyable read.

When u do finish it inshAllah do let us knw if its any good or not. Is there a thread for islamic literature? I knw theres one for sites...

"Verily, in the remembrance of Allah, do hearts find rest"

You wrote:
The book is Mustafa Akyol's "Islam without extreme's"

 

Has anyone got an authentic reference to the number 72?

And I'm not counting the Daily Mail or the Sun as an authentic reference.

Don't just do something! Stand there.

Ocean wrote:

Time after time it favours men over women, sometimes women are explained to be mechanical parts to a *Man's* life machine. This isn't just in Islam but in all religions.

Do you have any idea what a husband's duties to his wife include?

Don't just do something! Stand there.

Ya'qub wrote:
Has anyone got an authentic reference to the number 72?

And I'm not counting the Daily Mail or the Sun as an authentic reference.


Just some quick googling (and scan-read through )

When we look at the highest authority in Islam, the Quran, we find nothing in it endorsing rewards for suicide. Instead we find the strongest condemnation with severe punishments for those who commit suicide. When we look at Hadiths, which after the Quran is second in authority in Islam, we find nothing in the authentic Bukhari and Muslim Hadiths endorsing suicide. Instead we find strong condemnation for it.

Searching what Muslims refer to as Gharib Hadiths (weak or strange Hadiths) we do find something about 72 wives but not virgins. The Hadith we find is the following:

Sunan al-Tirmidhi Hadith 2562 says:

The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying: “The smallest reward for the people of Paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana’a [Yemen]“

This is as a weak Hadith that has no Sanad — line or sequence of narration. Although listed in an authoritative collection, this particular Hadith has technical weaknesses in its chain of transmitters and is therefore not considered impeccable. As a result, Muslims are not required to believe in it. Even if the Hadith was true, there is nothing about it that says that if someone commits suicide they would get 72 virgins in paradise.

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

ghost, you cant just say stuff without proof or backup, like what's going to be the reward for female martyrs. and i've never heard this description of hoors, so if you have a reference, please send it this way.

and idont think there's any point arguing with Ocean as she has already made her mind up about this.

Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?

Lilly wrote:

and i've never heard this description of hoors, so if you have a reference, please send it this way.
Are you talking about admin's description? :S

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:
Lilly wrote:

and i've never heard this description of hoors, so if you have a reference, please send it this way.
Are you talking about admin's description? :S

ghost's

Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?

its true,
muslim men will get loads of pretty ladies in heaven.
cant wait to get there.
you get top beauties, and eternal youth to joy them.
what more can any man ask for.

Ayatollah rightly named America as "Great Satan".

you're disgusting.

general question: what's the difference between grey hair and white hair?

Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?

Lilly wrote:

I dont think there's any point arguing with Ocean as she has already made her mind up about this.

Forums are for discussions. Just because people disagree, it doesn't make it an argument :roll:

I think certain stuff in Islam does point to sexism but a lot of it can be explained away, some can't. I assumed that cos we get everything we went in heaven, if a woman WANTS 72 male virgins or whatever, then that's what she gets. Otherwise it would be a limit on 'everything'.

#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #

Rawrrs_isarollingstone wrote:
Lilly wrote:

I dont think there's any point arguing with Ocean as she has already made her mind up about this.

Forums are for discussions. Just because people disagree, it doesn't make it an argument :roll:

I think certain stuff in Islam does point to sexism but a lot of it can be explained away, some can't. I assumed that cos we get everything we went in heaven, if a woman WANTS 72 male virgins or whatever, then that's what she gets. Otherwise it would be a limit on 'everything'.

I wasn't requiring an answer telling me that females also can get 72 male virgins... it was more towards questioning the specificity of it all.

 

s.b.f wrote:
Rawrrs_isarollingstone wrote:
Lilly wrote:

I dont think there's any point arguing with Ocean as she has already made her mind up about this.

Forums are for discussions. Just because people disagree, it doesn't make it an argument :roll:

I think certain stuff in Islam does point to sexism but a lot of it can be explained away, some can't. I assumed that cos we get everything we went in heaven, if a woman WANTS 72 male virgins or whatever, then that's what she gets. Otherwise it would be a limit on 'everything'.

I wasn't requiring an answer telling me that females also can get 72 male virgins... it was more towards questioning the specificity of it all.

It was just something I thought about that was vaguely related to this -,-

#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #

there's discussion and then there's pointless discussion where nothing is going to change after the discussion. pointless. Time wasting.

@Ocean: i was referring to you thinking that Islam is sexist.

Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?

sexist: discriminatory on the basis of sex
discrimination: The unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people

simply said: I dont think that define any aspect of Islam.

I believe that Allah created us and so He knows whats best for all of us, agewise, ethnicitywise AND genderwise.

He knows what the boys should do and what the girls should do. and its quite a large margin available. now you take whatever it is you want to do and see if it fits. If it does, then you'll be happy and successful, if it doesnt you will..at the end of the day, be unhappy and relatively unsucessful, under whichever angle and through whichever lenses you look at it, there WILL be disappointment, pain etc... because its not what Allah meant for us.

sometimes we stand on one edge of the margin, and we think "its so narrow!! i cant do anything" but we dont think about turning around and looking at the VAST EXPENSE on the other side that is still available to us. we stubbornly try and push against that edge when there's still all that other side to explore.

its too late to talk sense...

Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?

Ocean wrote:
Why would God want a wedge between men and women? The whole gender thing? Why would God treat men different to women? OR expect women to be treated different to men? Why the whole gap between men and women? Why allow women seem like weak and must always be under the arms of a man? If it isn't your father, it's your brother or get yourself a husband...

I didn't say God was sexist, and He isn't nope. It's not God, God sees us all as EQUAL. To him Gender doesn't really exist, we're ALL humans in His eyes and will be treated/judged equally on our merits and bad things.

So why is there a GAP between men and women in Islam on the Planet? Why do religious people differentiate between men and women? Why is there a difference between their "status" within a Muslim community... Human nature?

yes.

Don't just do something! Stand there.

Lilly wrote:
ghost, you cant just say stuff without proof or backup, like what's going to be the reward for female martyrs. and i've never heard this description of hoors, so if you have a reference, please send it this way.

and idont think there's any point arguing with Ocean as she has already made her mind up about this.

Anas RA narrates that Rasulullah saw ~ said,
"One morning or evening in the path of Allah is better than the world
and all it contains. A hand-span or a whip's length of
Jannat is better that the world and all it contains. If one
woman of Jannat were to glance towards the earth, she
would fill the space between the earth and the sky with
light and perfume. The scarf on her head is better than
the world and all it contains.(Sahih Bukhari)

If just a small part of Jannat is better than the world and
all it contains, then how will the rest of Jannat and all its
pleasures be? Also, if just the scarf on the head of one
woman of Jannat is better than the world and all it
contains, then how valuable is the woman herself?

Sai'd bin Amir says that he heard Rasulullah Saw ~
saying,

"If a woman from Jannat were to look towards
the world, she would fill the earth with the smell of
musk and [her beauty] would overpower the light of the
sun and moon. (Tabrani, Bazzar)

Ibn Abbas narrates that we were sitting with Ka 'b
one day and he said,
"If the hand of one hur were to
dangle from the sky, the whiteness and the rings of the
hand would illuminate the earth just as the sun gives
light to the world. What I said was just regarding her
hand, so how beautiful will her white face be when it is
adorned with a crown, ruby, pearl and emerald? (Ibn AbiDunya)


Abdullah Ibn Masud narrates that Rasululah Saw said,
"Every person of Jannat will have two wives from the
hurs. Every wife will have 70 layers of clothes, and the
marrow of her leg can be seen through these clothes just
as a red drink can be seen in a white glass."
Outwardly, a person may consider it repulsive and
disgusting to see the marrow of the leg of the women of
Jannat. However, one narration clarifies this matter and
mentions that he will be able to see through her leg
because of her beauty; not because of some defect in
her. The purpose of mentioning this is to emphasize the
softness of the skin, clearness, and the delicateness of
the women of Jannat.40 Another benefit of being able to
see through her clothes is that he will be able to enjoy
looking at her beautiful clothes and what is underneath at
the same time.(Mirqat 9/576 - AI-Maktabat AI-Haqqaniyat, Multan)

Just to get the record straight, I did not mention any specific reward for female martyrs, I just mentioned which was imho that it does not mean that if no reward has been mentioned that there isn't one, Allah Swt knows best.

72 is regarded as a minimum, I can prove that.

Abu Hurayrah narrates that Rasulullah Saw said, "The
person in the lowest level of Jannat will have seven
stories and he will be on the sixth story below the
seventh. He will also 300 servants who will bring him
300 plates of food in the morning and evening. The
plates will be made of gold and silver, and every plate
will have a type of food different from the other. He will
enjoy the taste of the last plate just as he enjoyed the
first. The servants will also bring him 300 glasses and
each glass will have a type of drink not found in the
other. He will enjoy the last glass of drink just as he
enjoyed the first. He will ask Allah, '0 my Lord, if you
permit me to feed and give drink to all the people of the
world, this would not decrease my kingdom in the least
bit.' The person of Jannat will also have 72 wives from
the hurs besides his wives from the world, and one of
them will have the width of one mile.(Ahmad, Abu Ya'la)

And one more thing, ofcourse they will be having lots of sexual fun too, boohoo too bad you don't like it.

Abdur Rahman bin Sabit Ra said,
"Definitely, a person
in Jannat will marry 5OO hurs, 4,000 virgins, and 8,000
previously married women, He will have sexual
intercourse with each one for as long as he lived in this
world.(Bayhaqi)

Clearing the myth about the TWO

The ahadith mention different amounts of wives for each
person in Jannat. In Sahih Bukhari it is mentioned,
"Every person will have two wives." However, there is
no contradiction between this hadith and other ahadith
which state a person will have more than two wives.
Hafiz ibn Hajar mentions that one interpretation of
this hadith is that two is the minimum number of wives a
person will have. Another interpretation is that the
number two is also used in the Arabic language for a
large quantity and greatness of something. Thus, the
meaning here is not to fix an exact amount and limit for
the number of wives a person will have. Mulla Ali
Qari says that the best interpretation is that the two
wives mentioned in this hadith refer to the women of this
world and each person will have a minimum of 72
wives; 70 from the hurs and 2 from the humans.(Mirqat 9/600)

Abu Hurayrah narrates that Rasulullah Saw was asked,
"Will we have sexual intercourse in Jannat?"
He answered, "By the oath of that being in whose hands my
life is, yes. [Sexual intercourse will be with] hard
pushes. When one of us completes the task of
intercourse with his wife, she will once again become a
virgin and a pure woman.(Ibn Hibban)

Miqdad narrates that Rasulullah Saw said,"
A Shahid will have 7 qualities when he reaches Allah:

1. His sins will be forgiven upon the first drop of his
blood, i.e. he will see his place in Jannat.
2. He will receive protection from the punishment of the
grave.
3. He will be in security from the great fear, i.e. day of
judgement.
4. A crown of honor will be placed on his head. One
ruby from this crown is better than the world and all it
contains.
5.He will marry 72 wives from the hurs.
6. He will intercede on the behalf of 70 of his relatives.
7. He will be made to wear clothes of lman (faith). (Tirmidhl, Ahmad, Tabrani)

You wrote:
"hoor's" are not strictly female. that is what they are shown as for men, but there is a male equivalent mentioned too somewhere. I think the specific gendered name for it in some language is "ghilman".

Proof??

Ocean wrote:
You do realise this doesn't make Islam seem less sexist?

Time after time it favours men over women, sometimes women are explained to be mechanical parts to a *Man's* life machine. This isn't just in Islam but in all religions.

Do some introspection and resort to taubah for that statement, Allah Swt is not in need of you nor you feminist views, you are in need of him and his deen.

I am amazed at how so many non muslim western women can see the light of Islam as being a totally fair and equal religion, the proof is in the number or white women accepting islam after all the Islamaphobia the west has portrayed. But alas it is our born muslimahs who just can't see it. May Allah Swt guide us. Ameen.

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