Submitted by salaf on 2 December, 2005 - 18:09 #31
I know about this group. There was once a rumour that muslim converts in the Chiapas region were collaborating with them. I believe both groups are native Mayas.
What I was asking about was these groups in the US who want to re-unite Texas and California with Mexico. I've heard they're armed.
Submitted by *DUST* on 2 December, 2005 - 18:12 #32
so... Dave, wot exactly were u interested in?
'integration and me' is a big topic...
—
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
I know about this group. There was once a rumour that muslim converts in the Chiapas region were collaborating with them. I believe both groups are native Mayas.
What I was asking about was these groups in the US who want to re-unite Texas and California with Mexico. I've heard they're armed.
Never heard of muslim converts working with them... not surprising though.
The thing about mexican criminals is aside from drugs lords you pretty much have to thinkin cartoonish terms.
The Zapatistas run around vandalising "imperialist mestizo" government buildings then run back to their camps where they have really big parties - which are lots of fun.
Then the mexican federales come and chase them - and DRAT they always escape on horseback with oaths to come back and fight again.
lol... ohh those mexicans - too many soap operas.
They are the only seperatist movement (aside from Le Quebescquois) in the North American continent that is large enough to take moderately seriously.
I've never heard of an armed movement to unite Texas with Mexico though... seems completely un-Texan
Not your thoughts on subcommander marco (shoulda specified)
What is "british" what is "assimilation" is integration the middle ground or is that just another word for a concept nobody seems to be able to define?
Why are there integration problems - if at all
Submitted by laila on 2 December, 2005 - 18:41 #35
let me answer that first
british - pubbing and clubbing
assimilation - thats what the borg do
integration - the putting of them top 2 together
Submitted by *DUST* on 2 December, 2005 - 19:03 #36
"Constantine" wrote:
What is "british" what is "assimilation" is integration the middle ground or is that just another word for a concept nobody seems to be able to define?
Why are there integration problems - if at all
ok, this may sound really cliched, but i think 'britishness' is something defined on an individual basis - it means different things to different ppl. to me, its a reminder of multiculturalism and pluralism. (but i'm sure that if i lived here a couple of decades ago i wouldnt have felt the same way.)
assimilation is another word for integration... in my opinion this is not the answer because it involves running away from who one truly is - no matter how many times i pledge allegiance to the Queen, go to the pub with my mates or dance in a nightclub, one fact does not change: i am not a white Anglo-Saxon. i think such people who try to 'assimilate' are often fooling themselves and end up with an identity crises.
in my experience 'white' Brits appreciate non-whites who assert their own identity without forcing it upon others. multiculturalism [b]means[/b] having people of different race who speak different languages, eat different food and wear different clothes...
i think the 'balance' is basically where we have mutual respect for eachother regardless of race, culture and religion... and not expect someone else to conform to wot we may percieve as the 'ideal' way of life.
personally, Islam helps me to enjoy life in Britain: it teaches me to have that respect for ppl 'different' to myself and accept their views - i can take up 'british' things which are not outside the boundary of Islam, and politely reject things which are.
hope that answers some of the questions in this thread...
—
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
Do you think multiculturalism is a traditional British value?
Or is it something new
Submitted by *DUST* on 2 December, 2005 - 19:08 #38
"Constantine" wrote:
Do you think multiculturalism is a traditional British value?
Or is it something new
it cant b a 'traditional' value because if it was they wouldnt have been so harsh with the Indians they colonised. and 'traditional Britain' did not include ppl of other races...
'multiculturalism' only became a reality when asians started migrating here in massive numbers...
—
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
Submitted by Beast on 2 December, 2005 - 19:10 #39
'Multiculturalism' can be seen as British - I mean you have Welsh, English, Irish, Angel's people...
Do you think multiculturalism is a traditional British value?
Or is it something new
it cant b a 'traditional' value because if it was they wouldnt have been so harsh with the Indians they colonised. and 'traditional Britain' did not include ppl of other races...
'multiculturalism' only became a reality when asians started migrating here in massive numbers...
So so yout hink it's a reality white britains just sorta begrugedly accepted, or have genuinely embraced?
Submitted by *DUST* on 2 December, 2005 - 19:12 #41
"Constantine" wrote:
"Aasiyah" wrote:
"Constantine" wrote:
Do you think multiculturalism is a traditional British value?
Or is it something new
it cant b a 'traditional' value because if it was they wouldnt have been so harsh with the Indians they colonised. and 'traditional Britain' did not include ppl of other races...
'multiculturalism' only became a reality when asians started migrating here in massive numbers...
So so yout hink it's a reality white britains just sorta begrugedly accepted, or have genuinely embraced?
depends, u have people in both categories.
—
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
Maybe not historically, but they have managed to integrate with each other quite well.
Any rivalry today is purely for the sports field.
Is there a specific historic date/time period we can really say the irish, english, welsh and scots all became amicable?
Submitted by laila on 2 December, 2005 - 19:27 #46
Multiculturalism. The word was first used in 1957 to describe Switzerland, got spread to canada late 1960s. then quickly spread to other English-speaking countries.
trevor phillips says we need to strike the right balance between British multiculturalism and French assimilation
i agree
multicultural britain was becoming too segregated and french assimilation just results in discontent and rioting ie ban hijaab incident
but how to strike the right balance?
Submitted by Beast on 2 December, 2005 - 19:34 #47
"Constantine" wrote:
"Enver" wrote:
Maybe not historically, but they have managed to integrate with each other quite well.
Any rivalry today is purely for the sports field.
Is there a specific historic date/time period we can really say the irish, english, welsh and scots all became amicable?
Is there a specific historic date/time period we can really say the irish, english, welsh and scots all became amicable?
With the scots when the scottins king/queen also became king/queen of england. The english ruler had died, and the closest relative was the dreaded scott...
uptil then the scotts had successfully fought the saxons off... They lost in their victory!
the welsh were just routed. The resistance movement was crushed. any lineage to the previous royalty was extinguished...
—
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Submitted by laila on 3 December, 2005 - 13:01 #49
so what would be acceptable to us Muslims and our non muslim counterparts and government?
how do we integrate and where do we begin?
utopia for me would be that all religions and cultures are catered for in education housing etc whilst we all get along as British citizens no one more equal then the other
our identities would remain intact and so would our feeling of belonging and citizenship to Britain
but how to do this at the structural reform level i dont know?
as individuals we can become more involved with politics, media etc whilst also cultivating greater understanding with non muslims we meet
but to lobby the government for change and what changes would need to take place and how - i dont know?
Submitted by Beast on 3 December, 2005 - 13:16 #50
I was talking to this copper yesterday and he was saying that Britishness (in the police force) is being able to speak English and knowing the culture and the history.
Can't argue with that.
Submitted by laila on 3 December, 2005 - 13:48 #51
i can. we already know english and our british culture and history its time non muslims knew ours and taught it in schools! then we can say this is a multicultural society
Submitted by Beast on 3 December, 2005 - 13:50 #52
"seema*" wrote:
i can. we already know english and our british culture and history its time non muslims knew ours and taught it in schools! then we can say this is a multicultural society
That just maintains the 'diversity'.
Shouldn't we be moving towards 'cultural unity'?
Submitted by laila on 3 December, 2005 - 14:05 #53
that would create unity because we'd have knowledge of british culture and they'd have ours and we no longer would be ignorant of each other and we would be more accepting and friendliar (is that how you spell it)
a lot of knowledge can only unite us a too little knowledge which seems to be the case now is dividing us
Submitted by Beast on 3 December, 2005 - 14:14 #54
Schools should teach an awareness of other cultures, sure. But at the same time focus should be put on what unites us instead of what divides us.
Submitted by laila on 3 December, 2005 - 14:17 #55
yes definitely (is that how you spell it)
i need to brush up on my spelling before i try to make any more posts
Submitted by Beast on 3 December, 2005 - 14:26 #56
Friendlier
Definitely
You can always type your posts in MS Word first and them paste onto the forum.
Submitted by laila on 3 December, 2005 - 14:35 #57
you've got to be joking i'm so lazy i only ever make off the cuff remarks whatever comes in my head thats why my posts are so erratic cut and paste dont make me laugh
anyway i'm chuffed i spelled them right!
Submitted by 100man on 4 December, 2005 - 13:12 #58
seema,
British schools have classes on religious education that teach some history and practises of all the religions. I take it you think the British should be educated more in depth about Islam. Is my understanding correct?
—
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
Submitted by laila on 4 December, 2005 - 13:28 #59
"100man" wrote:
seema,
British schools have classes on religious education that teach some history and practises of all the religions. I take it you think the British should be educated more in depth about Islam. Is my understanding correct?
no they should be taught world history including islamic golden age which was the wests dark ages then children would actually know how things were and are regards to science etc how muslims translated and built upon greek philosopies and science
ther's a whole chunk of history missing in schools ie the dark ages
I know about this group. There was once a rumour that muslim converts in the Chiapas region were collaborating with them. I believe both groups are native Mayas.
What I was asking about was these groups in the US who want to re-unite Texas and California with Mexico. I've heard they're armed.
so... Dave, wot exactly were u interested in?
'integration and me' is a big topic...
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
Never heard of muslim converts working with them... not surprising though.
The thing about mexican criminals is aside from drugs lords you pretty much have to thinkin cartoonish terms.
The Zapatistas run around vandalising "imperialist mestizo" government buildings then run back to their camps where they have really big parties - which are lots of fun.
Then the mexican federales come and chase them - and DRAT they always escape on horseback with oaths to come back and fight again.
lol... ohh those mexicans - too many soap operas.
They are the only seperatist movement (aside from Le Quebescquois) in the North American continent that is large enough to take moderately seriously.
I've never heard of an armed movement to unite Texas with Mexico though... seems completely un-Texan
lol the real debate a page back.
Not your thoughts on subcommander marco (shoulda specified)
What is "british" what is "assimilation" is integration the middle ground or is that just another word for a concept nobody seems to be able to define?
Why are there integration problems - if at all
let me answer that first
british - pubbing and clubbing
assimilation - thats what the borg do
integration - the putting of them top 2 together
ok, this may sound really cliched, but i think 'britishness' is something defined on an individual basis - it means different things to different ppl. to me, its a reminder of multiculturalism and pluralism. (but i'm sure that if i lived here a couple of decades ago i wouldnt have felt the same way.)
assimilation is another word for integration... in my opinion this is not the answer because it involves running away from who one truly is - no matter how many times i pledge allegiance to the Queen, go to the pub with my mates or dance in a nightclub, one fact does not change: i am not a white Anglo-Saxon. i think such people who try to 'assimilate' are often fooling themselves and end up with an identity crises.
in my experience 'white' Brits appreciate non-whites who assert their own identity without forcing it upon others. multiculturalism [b]means[/b] having people of different race who speak different languages, eat different food and wear different clothes...
i think the 'balance' is basically where we have mutual respect for eachother regardless of race, culture and religion... and not expect someone else to conform to wot we may percieve as the 'ideal' way of life.
personally, Islam helps me to enjoy life in Britain: it teaches me to have that respect for ppl 'different' to myself and accept their views - i can take up 'british' things which are not outside the boundary of Islam, and politely reject things which are.
hope that answers some of the questions in this thread...
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
Do you think multiculturalism is a traditional British value?
Or is it something new
it cant b a 'traditional' value because if it was they wouldnt have been so harsh with the Indians they colonised. and 'traditional Britain' did not include ppl of other races...
'multiculturalism' only became a reality when asians started migrating here in massive numbers...
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
'Multiculturalism' can be seen as British - I mean you have Welsh, English, Irish, Angel's people...
So so yout hink it's a reality white britains just sorta begrugedly accepted, or have genuinely embraced?
depends, u have people in both categories.
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
gotcha
lol yea... they all got along famously
Maybe not historically, but they have managed to integrate with each other quite well.
Any rivalry today is purely for the sports field.
Is there a specific historic date/time period we can really say the irish, english, welsh and scots all became amicable?
Multiculturalism. The word was first used in 1957 to describe Switzerland, got spread to canada late 1960s. then quickly spread to other English-speaking countries.
trevor phillips says we need to strike the right balance between British multiculturalism and French assimilation
i agree
multicultural britain was becoming too segregated and french assimilation just results in discontent and rioting ie ban hijaab incident
but how to strike the right balance?
I suppose it just sort of happened.
With the scots when the scottins king/queen also became king/queen of england. The english ruler had died, and the closest relative was the dreaded scott...
uptil then the scotts had successfully fought the saxons off... They lost in their victory!
the welsh were just routed. The resistance movement was crushed. any lineage to the previous royalty was extinguished...
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
so what would be acceptable to us Muslims and our non muslim counterparts and government?
how do we integrate and where do we begin?
utopia for me would be that all religions and cultures are catered for in education housing etc whilst we all get along as British citizens no one more equal then the other
our identities would remain intact and so would our feeling of belonging and citizenship to Britain
but how to do this at the structural reform level i dont know?
as individuals we can become more involved with politics, media etc whilst also cultivating greater understanding with non muslims we meet
but to lobby the government for change and what changes would need to take place and how - i dont know?
I was talking to this copper yesterday and he was saying that Britishness (in the police force) is being able to speak English and knowing the culture and the history.
Can't argue with that.
i can. we already know english and our british culture and history its time non muslims knew ours and taught it in schools! then we can say this is a multicultural society
That just maintains the 'diversity'.
Shouldn't we be moving towards 'cultural unity'?
that would create unity because we'd have knowledge of british culture and they'd have ours and we no longer would be ignorant of each other and we would be more accepting and friendliar (is that how you spell it)
a lot of knowledge can only unite us a too little knowledge which seems to be the case now is dividing us
Sorry, I thought you were talikng ablout langiages in thatprevious post. My mistake. I should wake up first. [img]http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/7424/rubeyes7lm.gif[/img]
Schools should teach an awareness of other cultures, sure. But at the same time focus should be put on what unites us instead of what divides us.
yes definitely (is that how you spell it)
i need to brush up on my spelling before i try to make any more posts
Friendlier
Definitely
You can always type your posts in MS Word first and them paste onto the forum.
you've got to be joking i'm so lazy i only ever make off the cuff remarks whatever comes in my head thats why my posts are so erratic cut and paste dont make me laugh
anyway i'm chuffed i spelled them right!
seema,
British schools have classes on religious education that teach some history and practises of all the religions. I take it you think the British should be educated more in depth about Islam. Is my understanding correct?
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
no they should be taught world history including islamic golden age which was the wests dark ages then children would actually know how things were and are regards to science etc how muslims translated and built upon greek philosopies and science
ther's a whole chunk of history missing in schools ie the dark ages
But the dark ages are more relevant to Britain...
Like Enver said british history and culture make a person British
So isn't that a bit of a non sequiter
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