France in Flames...

"quote" wrote:

French fire fighters tackle a burning car in Aulnay-sous-Bois, a north Paris suburb duirng the ninth night of rioting on Friday 05 November 2005. French police have arrested more than 200 people following fresh riots in and around Paris and other parts of France. More than 750 cars were burnt on the ninth consecutive night of unrest in immigrant-dominated areas near Paris, despite a heavy police presence.


Paris - 'We burned 15 cars. How many do you have?' A grim contest is under way in France as kids from disadvantaged suburbs vie with each other to see who can riot the hardest.

On Internet websites, young arsonists brag about their successes. Rioting, it seems, has become a trend sport, as youths in immigrant areas of provincial cities begin to rally to the call from Paris.

While political slogans hold no sway among these youngsters, hatred for Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy is palpable. 'Now we're the ones chasing you with the Karcher (high-pressure hoses),' they say, referring to Sarkozy's pledge to clean the suburbs of 'scum'.

What began as pitched battles has transformed into a nightly game of cat-and-mouse with the police.

Two or three people set out armed with mobile phones, crowbars and incendiary material. A quick hit with the crowbar on the windscreen of a police van, a Molotov cocktail inside - and they're off back into the sprawling housing estates.

The rioters have also started using motorbikes and mobile phones to trace the movements of police riot squads, in tactics reminiscent of urban guerrilla movements.

'Each night we turn this place into Baghdad', says one masked youth in Sevran near Paris. As a political statement, there have been better - but these riots seem to be more aimed at the television cameras than the National Assembly.

'It would be better to go into Paris than break up everything here,' his friend says, appearing to consider that the victims of the rioting are predominantly their own neighbours and friends.

'Why did they set my car on fire, why mine?' asks one young man as he watches it go up in flames. He knows the perpetrators, he says. They're neighbours of his, but he refuses to name them.

'These are our kids,' says Mohammed Rezzoug, vice president of Blanc-Mesnil football club.

Every night, Rezzoug is out on the streets talking to local youths in a bid to prevent his own sports hall going up in smoke. 'They answer me: 'Momo, we'll [bad word] them all',' he says.

Lurking behind the lines of burning cars is the knowledge that these riots could soon become a matter of life and death.

On Wednesday night, a disabled woman in Sevran barely escaped death in a burning bus.

Youths barricaded the road with burning tyres and threw fuel into the bus. All the other passengers fled, but the 56-year-old, unable to move, was sprayed with petrol and then a burning rag was thrown inside.

The woman survived the attack with second and third-degree burns on one-fifth of her body, after the bus driver managed to pull her to safety.

How have I missed this, its in its 10th night. :shock: Sad

One paper says its a muslim outcry at discrimination in job sector an stuff, but its defo a response to summat to have lasted this long.

u aint the only 1 , i not into newz much either...but that is wayyy of the hook whats happenin there.

whats with these rioters, gosh what they like

i seen bits no bobs, but wasnt paying attention

nor am i gona read that massive post dawud Smile

sum1 summarise whats happenin please

The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.

Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.


In its tenth night. There was also rioting in Denmark this week, about a Mohammed picture. I don't know if that's still going. Whether in France or Denmark there is no excuse. In France, they are said to be poor immigrants upset at the shoddy welfare and accomodation. They have to find their own way in life, and in my opinion what the state offers is a bonus, it is their parents who have brought them to those French welfare estates. Anyway the trigger was supposedly the accidental deaths of two Muslim boys who tried scaling an electric fence while running from police. I don't get it. The bus burning incident that killed a disabled woman is especially disturbing. These guys are horrific. I am not anti-welfare by any means but objectively the state owes them exactly nothing.

Hayder you checked your email?

and the France thing:

a game of death organized a la urban guerilla warfare, one step ahead of police, v. dangerous.

also 100 [u]in Britain[/u] we the people delegate power to Parliament, they owe the people everything. Smile

Gentleness and kindness were never a part of anything except that it made it beautiful, and harshness was never a part of anything except that it made it ugly.

Through cheating, stealing, and lying, one may get required results but finally one becomes

and its the asme in europe.

tax money is not the gov's, its a collection of the people's money to spend for the betterment of the people.

if you get something from the tax, its coz you're part of the system, not because they had sympathy or wanted to treat you.

the riots are just gang warfare against the police. They even supposed to keep tally!

I suppose that is what you get with 70% unemployment in the youth in those areas.

France has real problems that they have chosen to ignore.

such as when they enforced the hijab ban, it was to pander to some sentiments rather than deal with the issue.

the country is paying for its lack of social vision.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.


Like Admin says, so long as they're spending your taxes wisely, and not on the Eskimos or whoever.

nawt but the french mentality to be screamed at.

"100" wrote:

Like Admin says, so long as they're spending your taxes wisely, and not on the Eskimos or whoever.

unless there are eskimo's living in the country. then they must also soend it on them.

and even if they are not, I would assume the climate change caused by the greenhouse emmissions has a drastic effect in eskimo's.

(and lets hope there was no racist undertone there. I would doubt there is (from previous encounters)... but when there is an immigration issue alot of daily mail readers can crop up.)

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Fair comment Admin. Nothing racist. What I do think, that probably is a bit Daily Mail-ish but must be common sense, is that immigrants today seem to turn up just expecting help. What goes for governments, business and immigrants alike: the world is full of opportunities, it is not just a resource to be exploited. Gratitude and self-betterment really wouldn't go amiss.


But I doubt they come here actualle expecting all that. Most people realise they need to work. if they omefrom a poor background (as economic migrants probably do), I would expect them to understand that doubly so.

The rioters are supposedly youth. children of migrants, who have not been given as uch of an opportunity as they wanted/needed.

since it is not the actual migrants, but their kids who are rioting, I would assume the migrants themselves are happy with what they got. But the kids compare it with the natives, and see the disadvantage.

Justlike in the asian community, in the older generation, here is an attitude of mustn't grumble, whilethe younger lot think 'we pay our taxes, so we have the right to grumble at inferior service...'

I would not blame 70% unemployment just on the community. that would suggest an endemic problem, where they are brought up to be slobs.

Rather, I would agree with the people who have pointed out that problems have been simmering for a long time, and have just boiled over.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

That sounds like a reasonable assessment. Still there are opportunities either way, and the responsible answer to social deprivation is social improvement, not rioting and violence. Since most parents are objecting to these riots, I would still point to cultural influences and incitement coming from someone or other.

What I should add concerning welfare for immigrants, is that western societies try to keep everyone civilised and on their toes as well as maintaining a treasury through fines and taxes, and coping isn't a breeze especially for the unfamiliar. Britain has quite a good bunch of government and council schemes, community and leisure centres and the like, and a generally liberal, accomodating attitude to work and schooling for immigrants. Perhaps France is lacking that balance.

Either way is no excuse for what we are witnessing, and to be frank I worry also about British subcultures which are embroiled in anger and a sense of injustice. A lot of that is generic to today's youth cultures, glorifying ill-gained excesses and valueless pride but with the smug undertones of some kind of progressive movement. Being a contribution and a source of local pride, rather than an all-consuming, self-pitying gangsta, doesn't seem to inspire people. That isn't just an immigrant thing, but it is a blot on aspiration. So the Daily Mail fogeys get scared and irritable, and I don't like that cynicism but I understand for sure. They are misrepresented, the lifts keep getting broken, there is urine and graffiti on the stairs and the immigrant cultures turn around and blame them, as if this is why folk pay a lifetime of ever-increasing taxes.

There was a riot in Denmark :?: I wonder what the criteria for a riot is nowadays, if it just a couple of youth throwing stones as most of these cases are, i personally wouldn't make a big deal of it.

My mum just went to France last week while the Riot were happening and she mention that most of Paris was normal, it look like most of teh trouble is confine to the housing estate.

Anyway, had a run in with some Arabs (actually algerians) a little while ago and they mention how poorly pakistani represent islam and how there is a yob culture in UK you could tell he was blaming the pakistani culture, he was wrong and the case in France proves the point. It all about living standards and a lack of hope. If all about the condition people live in which cause the situation we seeing at the moment.Unemployment, racial prejudice and lack of understanding cause what we see. It incredible what the France Interior Minister said blaming The mafias and the fundamentalists, he need to see that he is the cause of the problem with his small minded views as well. It a sad situation we seeing and it need to be address, not with strong words and the blame game, but with soem real action in addressing some of the problem within the community.

"A true Muslim is thankful to Allah in prosperity, and resigned to His will in adversity."


France has problems with the [url= and religion of its immigrants. This is not just about rowdy youths and criminals.

There is no way that banning the hijab would have helped integration. But the French gov went ahead with it anyway.

France does not provide opportunites for its immigrants. If it does then it is [url= done grudgingly[/url].

France is evidently institutionally racist. It is the state that should be condemned.

[i]A person hit a Worker a good strong blow from behind.
The Worker swung around to return it; and the man said:
"Before you hit me, I have a question for you.
Now this is it: that sound: was it made by my hand or your neck?"
"The pain I am feeling does not give me leave for speculation.
These things are all right to worry about if you're feeling no pain" [/i]

admin and yuit, fantastic points made.

in mainstream news i have not heard a lot about these riots, and im surprised as you are that its in its 10th day. there was a piece on radio4 about it, highlighting it was racially motivated. but not seen that much about it that caught my attention


summary of a BBC report:

- nearly 1,300 cars burnt and 312 ppl arrested. centred on african and arab communities.

- 10th night of riots, minister has warned of stiff jail sentences.

- night buses have been cancelled in some areas

- riots began after death of 2 youths in one of paris' suburbs

- they were aciidentally electrocuted at ub station after fleeing police

- a school was petrol bombed and 4 police officers were injured when they were reportedly hit by baseball bats. "Reports of a police tear gas grenade hitting a mosque during the riots further inflamed feelings"[/color]

I think many rioters hate Mr Nicolas Sarkozy because he is Jewish.

"Omrow" wrote:
I think many rioters hate Mr Nicolas Sarkozy because he is Jewish.

The fact that he calls them 'rabble' and 'thugs' doesn't help.

Classic Urban Guerilla Warfare in France, n im sitting in England??!!!!

I missed how many days of this??.......Whers my passport ?, France.....Here I come

_____________- -SupeRazor- -_______________

Some ppl make their goals the stars.
They may live n die n never reach the stars,
but in the darkness of the night, those stars will guide them to their destination.
Becuz they made them in their eyesight

Actually Omrow, Sarkozy is not Jewish. His maternal grandfather was an Ottoman Jew, but moved to France, converted to Catholicism and married Sarkozy's Catholic mother. His father was a Hungarian aristocrat and an Orthodox Christian who escaped Hungary and joined the French Foreign Legion after the Russians invaded. Hence the Christian name Nicholas.

Today it was guns. Two police are still in hospital with gunshot wounds and in total thirty were injured by gunfire and stones. The UOIF (Union of French Islamic Organisations) has issued a Fatwa against this rioting: "It is strictly forbidden for any Muslim seeking divine grace and satisfaction to participate in any action that blindly hits private or public property or could constitute an attack on someone's life. Contributing to such exactions is haram."

Parisian police today raided a "petrol bomb factory", not that it takes much sophistication to make petrol bombs, but the building was full of molotov cocktails and balaclavas. French Intelligence believes that the same French jihadis recruiting for Iraq and Afghanistan have had a part in orchestrating these riots.

From what I have read it seems the youths whose deaths sparked the riots were apparently not actively running from police as such, but holed up in an electricity sub-station. The families of these youths say there was a chase, which the police deny.

LIBERTÉ? French Muslims banned from wearing headscarves in school.
ÉGALITÉ? France's non-whites twice as likely to be unemployed.
FRATERNITÉ? French government admits integration policies have failed.
RÉALITÉ: Riots erupt for eleventh night.

[url= Independent [/url]

The Independent - what a stupid bunch of apologists. I feel for the French.

"100" wrote:
The Independent - what a stupid bunch of apologists. I feel for the French.

First the storming of the Bastille now this.

Poor Frenchies.

Just had a look into this rioting abit.

1. Tensions in society for not having equal opportunities, and high unemploment.
2. two people die running from police. They are fried by a generator.
3. Sarkozy make a statement all those living in such slums are yobs and scumm. Apparently much harsher in french,
4. riots.
5. more riots.
6. more riots spreading.

hey, if I was called scum by the gov, I would retaliate. even if it would be a self fulfilling prophecy.

From my look into the stuff; this sarkozy basically asked for it. and it is spreading to many towns and cities. It may even cross borders.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Watch Channel 4 news yesterday and it was very worrying watching how the police have handle teh situation, they tear gas there way into a mosque showing no respect and also into the women section. The media reporting has been very bias, but you can always trust Channel 4 to provide the goods, best New Coverage by a million miles IMO. The French Government and their reaction has alot to answer for and it one of the main reason why we into our 11 day of trouble now. They could have defused the situation quite easiely at the beginning but that Bloke Sarkozy a twat and he personally done alot over the year to alienate the people currently rioting.

"A true Muslim is thankful to Allah in prosperity, and resigned to His will in adversity."


yup channel 4 is the best in analysis of news IMO...

an interesting article on the beeb:

[size=18]Boys and girls: Paris riots[/size]

The poverty and crime-ridden estates around the French capital, Paris, have erupted in violence - with cars, schools and business premises being torched, mostly by young men and boys as young as 12.

So how do the young residents of the estates see their future?

The BBC News website's Joseph Winter went to one of the affected estates in Aulnay-sous-Bois and found that while some boys had already given up hope of having a decent life, some girls were determined to overcome their problems.


When we speak, no one listens to us - this is the only way we have of making ourselves heard.

[Interior Minister Nicolas] Sarkozy said he would "pressure-clean us" - that we were "rabble".

We want Mr Sarkozy to resign, or the violence will continue. He is too scared to come here and talk to us himself. We don't think we'll ever get jobs.

We'd like to be accountants or work in businesses, but we know that as soon as people hear we have Muslim names and that we live on the Mitry estate in Aulnay, we won't even get interviews.


They shouldn't burn cars - that won't solve our problems.

But nor will sending a letter to the interior minister.

We should organise peaceful marches and demonstrations to get our message across.

We're black so we know we won't be able to achieve what we want in our lives. We will face lots of obstacles, but we won't let ourselves be crushed by society.

We want to go to university, but we know our qualifications won't be worth as much as those who live in central Paris.

Charlene Pierre, 15, [right on photo]: I want to be a lawyer.

Barro Victoire, 15 [left]: I want to be an IT engineer.

We know that despite everything, we will be achieve something.

We are confident that in 10 years' time, we will have found good jobs.

[url= News[/url]

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

I'm a bit disappointed at the way some of you are describing the rioters as justified. For my part, I know a lot of Jewish families who have left France over the last few years because they were getting attacked by antisemitic yobs, the far right, the far left and the jihad mob. I would guess they are all protagonists today, and if your sympathies lie with them I misread the forum. Wouldn't be the first time I've misread.

I also feel sympathy for the families of the two boys who died in the generator, but not especially for the boys themselves. I have no idea what they were doing there or why they were on the run, but it seems a feature of these rioters that nobody has any responsibility, it's all the state 'making them do it'. I'm unemployed. I temp, I work for friends, I keep up with my art, I use my noggin, I don't take benefits, I suffer if need be without making a fuss of it, I walk for miles if I'm that skint. I don't riot. Ars*holes.

Admin, Sarkozy's statement was very specific, describing urban gangs as "scum", which they are. Why have you misreported that statement as referring to "all those living in such slums"? That's trouble.

Irfghan, same sort of thing, where the hell is your decency?


If these rioters were middle class university students would you be saying the same thing?

I think so, yes. As far as I'm aware they all have voting rights, the right to a full education and so on? And they live on welfare, right?

It sounds to me like you find some justification for this, or you're being loyalist and tarring my views as prejudicial.

If the Frenchies were all for integration and multiculturalism, much like UK is, then I would find little sympathy for the rioters.

But the French act as if they don't want their immigramts to integrate. They want to force assimilation upon them.

You can't treat people like this and expect them not to rebel.

By setting fire to cars and buses and shooting at police?

Why don't they just leave the country?

I tell you why, these are violent scum.