100's point is live and let live. I'm down with that.
7% (1 vote)
100's point is live and let live. I'm down with that.
7% (1 vote)
100's point is that non-Muslims can be prejudiced. I'm not down with that.
7% (1 vote)
100's point is that non-Muslims can be prejudiced. I'm not down with that.
7% (1 vote)
100's point is offensive in itself.
7% (1 vote)
100's point is offensive in itself.
7% (1 vote)
I don't care about this.
7% (1 vote)
I don't care about this.
7% (1 vote)
Islam will conquer the world and 100's point will be irrelevant.
14% (2 votes)
Islam will conquer the world and 100's point will be irrelevant.
14% (2 votes)
Other.
7% (1 vote)
Other.
7% (1 vote)
Total votes: 14
If it's cool with you I don't believe that Mohammed was a prophet. I can make things up about him or believe things about him or not believe things about him, there is nothing sacred to me about Mohammed. That is because I'm Jewish. If I look at his life I will be cold and academic and might not end up respecting him. If I consider that he is the onset of Islam and that there has been immense friction between Islam and other world religions I might actually disrespect him.
Now, I know people who don't swear belief in God. I know atheists. I know people who think ill of Moses. I have no objection to that, and if they aren't Jewish I have no particular expectation that they will think otherwise. I can't directly discuss Torah with someone who firmly disputes God's existence, but I can't wish any harm on them either.
I have no belief that Jews must eventually come to dominate the world. I am not a prophet, whose reputations are staked on their predictions. Therefore I expect people with different opinions to coexist with respect for each other, but not for each other's beliefs, because obviously then a single group, based on their upbringing, can insist that their belief in the fundamental wrongness of other cultures needs to be respected. In other words, that is like one group insisting everyone else accepts their beliefs. So I do not expect that of people, and I am very much against it.
Are we cool with all this, or is it offensive?
[size=10]I feel I'm gonna move on back down south
you know where the water tastes like cherry wine[/size]
after reading the above.. i've come to the conclusion that ur a [b]EDIT[/b].. now [b]EDIT[/b].
[b]EDIT: Mind your language ------------- Modnster [/b]
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
I'm astonished you're using that language, although don't worry about offending me with it.
But why are you reading my comment that way?
And what kind of reaction is that to a logical point?
I take it you [i]do[/i] find what I wrote offensive.
[size=10]I feel I'm gonna move on back down south
you know where the water tastes like cherry wine[/size]
whats so logical about that?
just stfu, cos ur only here to cause offence..
i've already delved to ur level by calling u a cunt, which u clearly are.. thats all I gotta say on the matter.
[b]re: EDIT
insults in disguise are still insults
-ThePhantomMod[/b]
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
Actually you've gone very low, and you take it I want to cause offense. I don't, but it is a challenge, and one you are dealing with [i]really[/i] badly.
The logic is, since I have my own beliefs which do not involve yours, and you have your own beliefs that purposefully override mine, how is it possible for you to demand respect for your beliefs? Yours is a religion which confronts people in perpetuity about their beliefs, so it is strange for you to respond to [i]my[/i] challenge, not to your beliefs but as to why I should respect them, by calling me names.
I think you're making a lot of the bit you highlighted in bold. When I say I can make things up I mean to say, I can frankly say what I like, I have no belief that I should respect this man. It is like a Hindu demanding you respect his Guru. Doesn't work at all, it is like starting a fight.
[size=10]I feel I'm gonna move on back down south
you know where the water tastes like cherry wine[/size]
blah blah blah.. ur chatting [b]EDIT[/b].. if ur a believer of ur Religion why the [b]EDIT[/b] u trying to cause offence here..
CHIEF..
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
khan, either you can answer my question or you let someone else answer or you say "good point". Tell me where I caused offense.
[size=10]I feel I'm gonna move on back down south
you know where the water tastes like cherry wine[/size]
no no... read my words [b]EDIT[/b]...
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
khan,
You've misread me. We've been here before, send me that PM about your life story any time.
[size=10]I feel I'm gonna move on back down south
you know where the water tastes like cherry wine[/size]
The Great 100 - if i started disrespecting and cursing your mother to your face , would you find that offensive?
I should think so. If you didn't know her I would shrug it off.
[size=10]I feel I'm gonna move on back down south
you know where the water tastes like cherry wine[/size]
Well if you do find it offensive you should know that Muslims love the Prophet
more than their mothers , fathers , families.
If you start slandering , cursing, belittling the noble prophet
, im gonna take it worse than you cursing my mother (which is bad enough).
You said people should have respect for each other - well i dont expect people to curse the prophet
just as i dont expect people to curse my mother - its common courtesy.
That's fine but I haven't disrespected anyone.
What respect do you have for Krishna? What respect for kuffar practises and beliefs?
[size=10]I feel I'm gonna move on back down south
you know where the water tastes like cherry wine[/size]
Good and please see that you dont.
I dont know anything about Krishna. If i had any "offensive" thoughts about them , i would keep them as just that -thoughts.
Well, no, Vedeno, I won't "see that I don't". I'm happy to respect sensitivites and all but, honestly, I can take a cold look at Mohammed's life and say what I like, and you have no right, NO RIGHT, to demand otherwise, to become violent, to offend me personally, it is not logical.
It is admirable that you keep your thoughts on polytheism to yourself.
Bear in mind that your entire scripture is an offense to my entire scripture, claiming that I have a distorted belief. I know this not from non-Muslims, not because of how I interpret matters, but in conversations with Muslims who have been educated to despise other cultures. That is why I find this thing about respecting Mohammed ridiculous, hypocritical, illogical, unnecessary, contrived, provocative and contemptible.
Obviously I would not walk into a pious discussion about deen and say that, but I am taking advantage of the open nature of these forums to have this conversation. I believe it is not the slightest bit offensive for me to ask you to accept that I do not respect your prophet.
[size=10]I feel I'm gonna move on back down south
you know where the water tastes like cherry wine[/size]
Let me get this straight , you want to offend someone who is most beloved to all of us and you expect us in return not to offend you personally?
We can no more do that , than keep silent while you curse our mothers.
As i said if you want respect (as you claim you do ) then respect us , our mother , our fathers , our prophet(saw).
If you want to cause offense then dont expect people to react with a smile on their faces.
This is one of the bad points of internet forums. People get braver and say things they wouldnt normally say to your face.
Sure, but you can float any theory you like about someone historical who I respect and I have no right to intimidate you on the subject.
And I can say anything I like about someone historical you respect and you have no right to intimidate me on the subject.
Intimidation and pressure not to express opinions that upset you, is the opposite of an environment for truthful and calm discussion. Dig?
[size=10]I feel I'm gonna move on back down south
you know where the water tastes like cherry wine[/size]
I think I see what you are trying to say.
Just like I do not believe that Krishna was a god or a prophet, you do not believe in Muhammed. OK.
But I am not in a position to say exactly what Krishna was and what he wasn't. Whatever view I hold of him will be determined by my limited (OK, non-existent) knowledge of Hindu scripture, my limited knowledge of Krishna's role and position within the Hindu faith, my limited knowledge of Krishna's status in contemporary Hinduism, and my own prejudices and preconceptions. Given this limited capacity I have no right to go around saying that my view of Krishna is an authoritative view, that it is even a well developed view, or even that Hindus should be OK with me for holding a ill-informed view of Krishna.
Anyone wanting to give their views on Muhammed (pbuh) would be minded to tread carefully for the same reasons.
You seem to have a generally negative view of Islam eg "If I consider that he is the onset of Islam and that there has been immense friction between Islam and other world religions I might actually disrespect him." Under these circumstatnces you would appreciate that your opinion of Muhammed is clouded. It is no wonder, therefore, that your views would make many Muslims feel uneasy.
Excellent reply, thank you. I accept that and in fact if I came here out of the blue with that remark you would be right to take it I meant some offense. I made the comment because especially following those cartoons and also as discussed on the forum today, it is a big issue among Muslims as to how non-Muslims treat the subject of Mohammed and Muslim beliefs, and I am insisting so long as they are not destructive or disrespectful to the people who hold them non-Muslims can treat those subjects however they like. What I wrote about my options for disrespecting Mohammed was an accurate example of why I might not be impressed. Another reason is that I have a perfectly good religion already.
[size=10]I feel I'm gonna move on back down south
you know where the water tastes like cherry wine[/size]
Innaa lillahi wa innaaa ilayhi raaji'oon. How can the revival mods allow this thread to exist? :evil:
Curses upon the haters of My Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Whereas I didn't curse anyone or even disrespect Mohammed. So who is disrespectful?
That is a serious question. This is a serious thread. I want this thread, in itself, to confront people who have a problem with it. I want those people to look at themselves. Who is disrespectful?
[size=10]I feel I'm gonna move on back down south
you know where the water tastes like cherry wine[/size]
Those who dont respect my Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam aren't worth the dust that falls on my feet. Hows that much respect for you.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Read the thread again.
Who is disrespectful?
Read the thread again.
Why might I resist showing respect for your beliefs?
[size=10]I feel I'm gonna move on back down south
you know where the water tastes like cherry wine[/size]
I think it the fact that you so brazenly started a thread just to say that you do not believe Mohammed (pbuh) was a prophet that is making people uneasy.
You don't need to tell us that you don't believe in Mohammed (pbuh) as a prophet. It's not very hard for us to work it out ourselves.
Given that you are an otherwise intelligent bloke, and that you have had - and are having - heated debates on other threads, this seems to be a provacation.
People like him are very clever with words - but Im on to him.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Beast,
It didn't upset you. You are connected to the reality. It severely upset others. If they do not learn the reality they make life desperately unpleasant. btw I learnt that Vedeno, who I challenged on another thread, can be polite and intelligent even under pressure, although he was not when he encountered a difference of opinion earlier in the day.
Med,
What I am trying to acheive is a world in which we can differ and that does not give you, no matter what we differ about, an excuse to be hateful. You are not onto me, you're being ever more hateful.
[size=10]I feel I'm gonna move on back down south
you know where the water tastes like cherry wine[/size]
I can accept difference - I can accept that people worship cows etc but I am religiously obligated to hate that because a man demeans himself by worshipping something that is created like him. So i can ACCEPT differences - I just dont have to love them.
boo-hoo Im being more hateful. Cut the victim card - it dont wash with me.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Seeing as you mention, I am not upset because I am trying not to let you get me upset.
Instead of arguing I think it is better if I try to work why it is that you say what you say.
Med,
You are unable to reject the practise without also having hate? Then do not expect respect for your hateful beliefs.
Beast,
You are a lot bigger than that and my reason for saying it is in the content of what is being said. And I am pleased not to offend you, so really, if I did then show me where.
[size=10]I feel I'm gonna move on back down south
you know where the water tastes like cherry wine[/size]
Love and hate for the sake of ALLAH is a pillar of our faith.
You dont resspect my Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam - what do you think I hope of from you. I've had enough on this pathetic thread. Enjoy yourself 100.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
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