Democratic fascism or Islamo-fascism ?

I'm sure you've heard the term "Islamofascism" in the media often used to describe muslims the media doesn't like.

Its often used by "neo-con" journalists like Melanie Phillips and Christopher Hitchens who also strongly support the war in Iraq.

Whats interesting is that one of the war's primary architects is himself highly supportive of fascism.

I find it useful to dig beneath the head lines in order to unearth this kind of hypocracy which is pretty widespread.

Well hypocrisy knows no bounds.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

what exactly is fascism?

i dont understand politics that well? was hitler fascist? is communists fascist? is fascism left or right? are labour left or right? whats central? is bnp fascist? what is fascism?

Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar

"Medievalist" wrote:
what exactly is fascism?

i dont understand politics that well? was hitler fascist? is communists fascist? is fascism left or right? are labour left or right? whats central? is bnp fascist? what is fascism?

It's totalitarian in structure which means the state maintains a monopoly on weapons, information and the government (single party state). It stresses government as an expression of the people - therefore it calls on sacrifice to and for the state - the state above the individual. There is usually a great deal of hero worship and strongmanship.

Economically it stresses corporatism in which various classes, and industrial groups are organized into "corporations" for the purpose of legislating economic policy. The traditional defense of this kind of structure is that it combines the interests of the state with the interests of companies (capitalism) however most people seem to agree that it is just a reincarnation of feudalism.

It constantly stressed it's revolutionary nature.

It is generally compared to marxism as a sort of rightist perversion of marxist doctrine. Not terribly surprising since Mussolini was originally a Marxist. The unpredictable revolutionary nature of trade unions, the weaknesses of liberalism, and the instability of the lower classes all from Marxism were reformed in the fascist state via corporations, militancy, and populism (a replacement to constitutional democracy).

All that said, "fascist" has just become a word that gets thrown around against the radical right - wherever that may be. It has lost it's meaning. Not much really should be read into words like Islamofascist or right-wing fascist in the case of US conservatives. Comparing the goals and means of fascists to out of control clerics like OBL or the extreme right in the US there are really few points on which they conform to fascism.

It's probably more appropriate to stick to titles like "ultra right" or extremist/fundamentalist for such people.

"salaf" wrote:
Whats interesting is that one of the war's primary architects is himself highly supportive of fascism.

That's a stretch Salaf,

Ledeen is an honorary fellow at the AEI but has more influence on the neocon movement than actual policy. The only direct connection anybody has made between him and the War in Iraq has been the unsubstantiated accusation by Vinny Cannistraro that Ledeen was behind the memo stating Iraq sought enriched Uranium from Niger. Seeing as Cannistraro hasn't been in office for nearly two decades his thoughts on the subject are considered conjecture at best.

Further Ledeen is more concerned with the War on Terror "faster, please" than Iraq (although he is even less of an "architect" there) - the principle architects of Iraq are Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, and Donald Rumsfeld. Certainly they - as neocons were inspired by the writings of Ledeen, Kristol et al - but it was their memos, evidence, and planning that resulted in the war.

"salaf" wrote:
I'm sure you've heard the term "Islamofascism" in the media often used to describe muslims the media doesn't like.

Its often used by "neo-con" journalists like Melanie Phillips and [color=blue]Christopher Hitchens [/color]who also strongly support the war in Iraq.

that clown...lol....he was recently described by george galloway as

“[i][color=red]drink sodden, former Trotskyite popinjay”[/color][/i]

i dunno wtf a popinjay is, but that a funny insult...

this hitchens hates religion, all religions, and wants to discredit any criticism of secular society...

if u buy him a few bottles of whiskey, he'll write whatever u wanner hear...

everyone discribes their enemies as fascists....i do it all the time....

POWER TO THE PEOPLE

k thanks for that dave.

Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar

"St George"][quote="salaf" wrote:
I'm sure you've heard the term "Islamofascism" in the media often used to describe muslims the media doesn't like.

Its often used by "neo-con" journalists like Melanie Phillips and [color=blue]Christopher Hitchens [/color]who also strongly support the war in Iraq.

I can't stand either of the Hitchens brothers. Both of them appear as though they've never smiled in their life.

Quote:

that clown...lol....he was recently described by george galloway as

“[i][color=red]drink sodden, former Trotskyite popinjay”[/color][/i]

Whether or not he's a former Trotskyite is debatable.

It could be that he's just putting his hopes for the world in the US now instead of the USSR.

Remember the term neo-conservative is actually a bit misleading. These people like Wolfowitz, Feith and Pearle don't really have anything to do with American conservatism. Their beliefs have more to do with remodelling the rest of the world not with the state of affairs inside America. Plus their motives are clearly not driven by any kind of patriotism considering the original plan for knocking out Saddam was presented by Pearle not to America but to Israel:

"salaf" wrote:
Whether or not he's a former Trotskyite is debatable.

It could be that he's just putting his hopes for the world in the US now instead of the USSR.

Remember the term neo-conservative is actually a bit misleading. These people like Wolfowitz, Feith and Pearle don't really have anything to do with American conservatism. Their beliefs have more to do with remodelling the rest of the world not with the state of affairs inside America. Plus their motives are clearly not driven by any kind of patriotism considering the original plan for knocking out Saddam was presented by Pearle not to America but to Israel:

Following that vein neocons are socially liberal and appear to be all for a socialist welfare state - two positions that are completely out of line with conservatism.

You have to remember though - in this country, there are no more political parties.

The parties get behind the most electable candidate and conform the party ideology behind that person.

Should McCain win in 2008 as expected, neocons could be snuffed out of existance.

"Dave" wrote:
Should McCain win in 2008 as expected, neocons could be snuffed out of existance.

From what I've heard about him he's not really that different from the neo-cons. His criticism of Bush is that he's incompetant or not aggressive enough.

This isn't really suprising seeing as how the neo-cons are actually closer to the democrats ideologically than old school republicans.

"salaf" wrote:
"Dave" wrote:
Should McCain win in 2008 as expected, neocons could be snuffed out of existance.

From what I've heard about him he's not really that different from the neo-cons. His criticism of Bush is that he's incompetant or not aggressive enough.

This isn't really suprising seeing as how the neo-cons are actually closer to the democrats ideologically than old school republicans.

lol McCain is centrist, the litmus test for neocons is not whether they criticise Bush since nobody is that stupid.

He is a republican realist - which might sound like the neocon thunder but is fundamentally different, far less extreme.

"salaf" wrote:

I still don't see much difference in the rhetoric.

Not sure where you are taking me with this one. If your litmus test for neocons is where they are on Iraq you will find that all republicans and moderate liberals are neocons.

Simply for the reason that if you take a stand against Iraq now it is political suicide. You either get clumped in with the left wing radicals, you are a terrorist sympathizer, or you are just looking for political gain.

That said, the man might agree with the neocons on several points of national security - but he is an independent and a centrist, which he's made clear many times and is pretty much common knowledge now.

[i]McCain doesn't fit neatly into any one political wing. He is conservative on many military and social issues, but more liberal on fiscal issues.[/i]