What is truth?
It is often assumed that truth is mind-independent. That, if the world is a certain way, then it is true that it is that way, independent of anyone thinking that it is that way (so the tree falling in the wood [b]always[/b] makes a sound).
Perhaps those who make this assumption shouldn't.
The assumption that the mind-independent features of the world [i.e. ‘just the facts’] determine the truth of propositions, does not entail that truth is independent of minds. This follows only on the further assumption that there exist propositions about every feature of reality independent of minds, which is something the immanent realist can and should deny.
So where is truth if there are ontological truths and conceptuals truths . . . and they are different?
... free your mind.... lol... its a bit of a head knumber i know but what do you guys (and girls) think???
Discuss to your leasure... ive got work to do ... i'll check back on you later tonight. 
Interesting thread seraphim, I my self have given a lot of thought to this subject.
IMO that is a fact and not an assumption.
Everyone’s view of reality is fundamentally flawed, with essential bits missing, a lot of generalizations, and many of the things we accept as the truth might not be even true (well you never know
).
We only know about things that we have been exposed to. The things that shape our view of the world are include; family, friends, education, media [magazines, newspapers, the ridiculous amount of news channels :roll: , books, posters, catch phrases, adverts, etc], traveling, religion, religious leaders we admire/love, culture, science, philosophy, etc.
I can write a whole book about the previous paragraph and how it shapes our view of the world.
anybody who denies the laws of cause of effect is living on cloud Coocoo land, we don't live in a fairy tale world where everything happens spontaneously, we've all lived long enough to know that is not the case. Unless they have a screw loose then this is not their fault.
we experience the world through our five senses, my mum once bought me a lilac top and i loved it, (but me and my dad are color blind) so for about a year we both assumed the top was light blue and not lilac :mrgreen: , until my sister pointed out the fact that it was lilac and not light blue, my dad still couldn’t tell, but after a long hard look i realized the top I was wearing was actually lilac and not light blue! :mrgreen: . I am not color blind anymore, but that's a trivial example of how things are not quite what they seem LOL
lol free it from what?
I know science has still not managed to prove that the world actually exists since we cannot experience it outside the mind. And nobody has been out side it.
But the fact that a few people don't believe the world is real is just hilarious, and at the same time annoying IMO, especially since I find indifference to the suffering of others repulsive so if some one ever said to me "are you sure it's not perceived suffering?" it would infuriated me, I am touchy when it comes to things like that; i don't take it well when corrupt politicians down play or cover up the suffering they have caused.
And what's with the signature?
[b]There is nothing in our book, the Koran, that teaches us to suffer peacefully. Our religion teaches us to be intelligent. Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; [color=red]but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery.[/color][/b]
Famous philosopher and doctor Gregory House made his opinions known on the subject opf truth: Everybody lies.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
we got a book frm the library yesterday called Philosophy for beginners
its so boring it put me to sleep :roll:
you can't be series! :shock:
I'm obsessed with that sort of stuff!
I want to study it in college but because it won't get me anywhere I won't bother. And my bossy family will not approve of "such a futile" subject. :roll:
my family also considers it a lamo subject too
my dad is currently doing some Masters module course in Uni - its to do with clinical research but part of his assessment is to do a critical reflective journal - analyse the path of self - discovery, how to be a better practictioner, better person, critique his self etc etc
since he's cussed that subject all his life - suddenly he wants me and my sister to help him get all philosophical
shud we help him on a subject that he's cussed all his life :twisted:
I was an atheist and then I studied philosophy at A-Level. It made me believe in God (even though lots modern philosophers try hard to disprove the existence of God)!! then I started looking at different religions in detail and learnt about Islam and now I'm Muslim Alhamdulillah. So in my experience, philosophy has got me somewhere. it might be studying philosophy at A-level that could lead me to jannah insha'Allah!
If we had a very important Maths exam next week, we would only study Maths, not waste our time studying French, wouldn't we? As we have no idea when the Day of Judgement will come, (the most important exam we will ever face) shouldn't we try to focus on the Akhira (the hereafter) as much as possible and not get overrun by Dunya (this life)?
I'm not saying we should forget this life completely or anything. We HAVE to live in this life. Whether the physical world is all a figment of our imagination, whether we're all colourblind and the sky is really green, whether up is really down is not really important. As Muslims, we believe Allah has put us on this world to test us and for us to worship Him. Thats it. Anything else is secondary to this. All the money or fame in the world won't buy the keys to Paradise.
Like I said we have to live IN this life. But in my opinion we should live FOR the next life.
For me, philosophy is studying things that won't benefit us in this life. Any other subjects will give us the rewards in this life. They might lead to a good job. they might lead to high status amongst our friends. This is all ok, I'm not saying we shouldn't try to get a good job. But we shouldn't LOVE this world more than we strive for the next life. There will be a time when our whole life on this earth feels like it lasted 'a day, or part of a day', and we will have the whole of the Akhira stretching out ahead of us into eternity, either in Paradise or the Hellfire.
Which would you prefer?
Don't just do something! Stand there.
Philosophy is a huge topic, much of which I do not agree with.
However, philosophy also concerns itself with what is the best way to live (ethics)…it helps you to think and reflect. Philosophy is a part of many degrees….especially the PPD (Personal Development Planning/Reflection) part of it.
As Muslims, we should always be thinking, reflecting, trying to better ourselves etc
Many famous Muslims were philosophers, such as Ibn Arabi and Rumi…and their work is worth studying.
I kinda see where you’re coming from but I do believe that the ethics and reflective thinking side of Western Philosophy as well as the works of great Islamic philosophers is worth studying and can be beneficial for our akhirah.
I disagree... everyone may have a different view of reality but i would not say it is flawed. Ofcourse there will be bits missing and a whole lot of guess work thats kinda given in ones 'perception of reality'.
I do believe that a majority of things (like 98%) of what we know is as a result of being exposed to worldly things but there is much to be said for the elements of what lies within.
The laws of physics do state the presence of noise when the tree falls regardless of if anyone is around or not. However the question is not if these events actually take place but a question of the existence of sound if no one is around to hear it. To take it for what it is an even without no witness.
I dont think people doubt the worlds existance but their own preception of it.
And the last line was supposed to be a parady from The Matrix... never mind. And my signature is a quote from 'Malcolm X'.
Back in BLACK
i have read books about such people.
unless they are having us on :twisted:
Who, the people who write the books or the people who dont believe their own preceptions?
Back in BLACK
The one line answer:
There are three truths. There's my truth, your truth and then the truth - chinese proverb
May Allah shine sweet faith upon you this day and times beyond. May your heart be enriched with peace, and may your home be blessed always. Ameen.
The fourth truth is shrouded in ambiguity.
[size=10]The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.[/size]
[size=9]Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)[/size]
There is only one truth!!
how can there be different truths that contradict each other?
'your truth' and 'my truth' and not statements of fact, and are unreliable. they are not 'truths', they are merely opinions or viewpoints.
Don't just do something! Stand there.
That is just your point of view Ya'qub, it might not be true. Your asking points to human limitations.
[size=10]The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.[/size]
[size=9]Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)[/size]
thats exactly the point
May Allah shine sweet faith upon you this day and times beyond. May your heart be enriched with peace, and may your home be blessed always. Ameen.
huh? i knew that... :oops:
Don't just do something! Stand there.
I'm inclined to agree with zxz (Is that name Polish or a typo?), by the by I think I've read that book, if its the one full of pictures and starts with a guy gettuing a pint a saying something like "philosophy is thinking about thinking." (which can also be procrastination).
Seraph, I think there are mind independant truths and truths specific to individuals. "In this world one action arises from another" however the truth is like fruit: "in reality, the fruit came before the tree because right from from the beginning, it was the fruit that was the aim/desired result"
If truth is related to belief then obvciously some truths are mind dependant.
Gentleness and kindness were never a part of anything except that it made it beautiful, and harshness was never a part of anything except that it made it ugly.
Through cheating, stealing, and lying, one may get required results but finally one becomes