You wrote:

He does not address the verse in which it is mentioned that God sent us the light and the book...

... he quotes a different verse which does not contradict the above.

So no it doesn't address that issue.

if you look at the context of the verse it states we have sent you a light and quran, which show the light term is being used as a metaphor for guidance

so it does contradict if it means light literally for now a christian can say one verse says his a clay now it says his a light like angels

so now i ask you when allah si called light what does it mean

You wrote:

A contradiction on his argument that is that he states that since in another verse God says He (swt) is the light of the worlds and if we say that the prophet is light, then at some point somewhere someone may potentially get confused and mix the two...

He forgets that angels are light too.

So his point on that matter is invalid and wrong.

His other point about falling for divisions is true though.

he states that to make the point quran says allah si light so does that mean allah is light aswell like the angels are light

angels are light too? so allah is light like angels?

no you are weak for you havent educated yourself in this matter becuase you learnt on your own whims and desires and assumption not from good scholars or any good teachers unless someone else told you

and you havent answered my questions

Ibn Jarir al-Tabari: "By Light He means Muhammad (Allah bless

him and give him peace), through whom Allah has illuminated the truth,

manifested Islam, and obliterated polytheism; since he is a light for

whoever seeks illumination from him, which makes plain the truth" (Jami'

al-bayan, 6.161).

(15. O People of the Scripture! Now has come to you Our Messenger

explaining to you much of that which you used to hide from the Scripture

and passing over much. Indeed, there has come to you from Allah a light

and a plain Book.) (16. Wherewith Allah guides all those who seek His

Pleasure to ways of peace, and He brings them out of darkness by His

permission unto light and guides them to a straight path.)

(Indeed, there has come to you from Allah a light and a plain Book.

Wherewith Allah guides all those who seek His pleasure to ways of

peace.) meaning, ways of safety and righteousness,

(and He brings them out of darkness by His permission unto light and

guides them to a straight path.) He thus saves them from destruction and

explains to them the best, most clear path. Therefore, He protects them

from what they fear, and brings about the best of what they long for,

all the while ridding them of misguidance and directing them to the

best, most righteous state of being.

tafsir ibn kathir

this is what happens when you dont read the tafsir of the quran and just make assumptions

You wrote:

If I provide evidence of someone considering the verse differently from you, will you consider it? Or will you consider it an incorrect tafsir?

Do the tafsirs you quoted specifically address the issue and state that the prophet was NOT Noor? Otherwise they do not contradict.

I am still surprised though that your video didnt even consider the existence of the verse when making its decree.

yes because their are other chapters in the book that addresses this

post your evidence and inshalalh this time we can have a protper discussion liek brothers in islam are meant to

(Say : "Who then sent down the Book which Musa brought, a light and a

guidance to mankind'') meaning, say, O Muhammad , to those who deny the

concept that Allah sent down Books by revelation, answering them

specifically,

(Who then sent down the Book which Musa brought) in reference to the

Tawrah that you and all others know that Allah sent down to Musa, son of

`Imran. Allah sent the Tawrah as a light and a guidance for people, so

that it could shed light on the answers to various disputes, and to

guide away from the darkness of doubts. Allah's statement, .

You wrote:

here you can see the metaphor, as it is mentioning a book and then referring to it as a light.

The verse in surah maidah is phrased differently, referring to a light AND a book, which makes its context different.

Now at this point when you have evidence that is understood in differing ways, the next phase is to see if they are both "acceptable".

That leaves one question:

Can God create the prophet however He (swt) saw fit?

The answer to this question is a yes, and this is a universal yes, by me, by you, by your scholars, by Muslims of the past, present and future.

Now since we all agree on this question, any further debate on what God CHOSE is pointless as two parties will present their evidence from the Qur'an and sunnah and they will have differing verdicts, however neither sides view is one that is shirk as the question is about the power of God and the answer there is agreed upon by all.

Or you can stay lost within the details and argue and call people kaafir/mushrik and risk your own faith by being takfiri.

for this we go back to surah lahab

when surah lahab was revealed could allah have still made abu lahab a muslim

the answer is yes he couldve but that would mean allah is wrong  for when allah revealed that surah it was revealed as a prophecy of islam that will happened so allah making abu lahab muslim would mean he is wrong, so her ewe can see it is not a matter of fact whether allah can but rather it is something allah has already decided so goign agaisnt it would create a flaw in allah which is impossible

this is the same scenario here in which allah has already confirmed all human being are from aadam as and are created like him, saying a human is light is equal to saying jibrail as is clay becasue he came to muhammad saw in human form, for allah has already revealed thatangels are light human clay and jinn fire

can allah turn you into a girl? the question itself is illogical for alalh has already decided what you are and you will remain that way it is not whether allah can but rather this is allah's will as seen here  allah has already decided in how and what he created his creation with and thats the way it is

not everything is based on whether allah can do something it is based on what allah has already willed, i ask you again dajjal hasnt been revelaed yet so why doesnt allah make him good so nothing happens, the asnwer is if alalh does that then he allah and his messenger saw will be proven wrong

so allah making a human light or fire or even gold or silver makes him and his messenger saw wrong for they have already confirmed they are human being created from clay like aadam as the father of human being has been

the question isnt can alalh do this but what allah has already decided which is human beign have to be clay

You wrote:

I don't see the equivalence with Surah Lahab.

yes he couldve but that would mean allah is wrong

but He (swt) didnt and He (swt) is never wrong.

(also, keep in mind that time is a creation.)

not everything is based on whether allah can do something it is based on what allah has already willed

Maybe not, but at the same time, the theological debate does come down to this, as if there are two answers and neither is shirk, both refer to the Qur'an and sunnah, then while one will be right and the other wrong, it becomes a matter not worth arguing about as the parties will not agree til judgement day and as long as the debate is kept civilised, it will not be an issue of faith.

this is the same scenario here in which allah has already confirmed all human being are from aadam as and are created like him

Yes, all human. I am not sure what your view on mi'raj is, but depending on your view arguments can be made about a few things in relation to Prophet Musa (as) wanting to see God.

But the Prophet while being human is also special. like when the sahabahs tried to copy multi-day fasting, the prophet told them to refrain and informed them that the prophet was not like them, that there were differences. Then there is the ability to actually recieve revelation itself, something which is very powerful. Add to that being ma'sum. All big diferenced between mere humans and the Prophet (well, all prophets there as those differences are not special).

However, going back to the issue of Nur, we all agree that the Prophet was human, that God can create him however He (swt) wishes. The question that remains is one of what did God choose. That I am willing to leave as debating it and making takfir over stuff where both sides quote the qur'an and sunnah is not beneficial for us.

Since it isnt a pillar of faith, there are better things to focus on that fighting over such differences.

his never wrong this is why a prophecy revealed by allah can never be wrong, it always has to stay the way its been revealed

as i said if abu lahab became a muslim/ or if allah amde him a muslim after surah lahab then that would make allah wrong so thats why allah wouldnt make abu lahab a muslim after this verse of the quran for allah would end up being wrong in a  prophecy

this is one of the miracles of surah lahab the prohecy beign fulfilled and abu lahabs failure of doing anythign about it as he abu lahab all he had to do was be a muslim to do this but even then he didnt because allah allknowign knew he would never be a muslim even after this unique challenge in quran

neither is shirk but shia belief of ali ra being the first caliph isnt shirk either but it is  major deviation, and it spreads a flasified beleif in the ummah which creates sexts and creates disunity, it has to be that way for right and wrong cannot mi, hence why its ahlussunnahwaljamaa, and according to schoalrs of ahlussunnahwaljamaah it is unanimously agreed muhamamd saw is clay not light, as seen in the aqeedah of the 4 imams which consits of 1 tabieen and 3 tabitabieen

which part of the beleif of miraj whether i beleive if muhamamd saw went for or in a dream whether he literally saw allah whether it actually happened or not etc

musa as did want to see allah but happened allah was too powerfull for him to see and he fainted and the moutnain burned it is not possible to see allah before judgement day and jannah 

the full part of the sahaba ra trying to copy him hadith was he muhamamd saw concluded by saying you cant do this for allah ahs given both him and the other prophets stronger body, they are able to take certain thigns they/we cant, so he can do the fast but they/we cant, their body is stronger, again muhamamd saw all the prophets body, and again we know aadam as creation in detail and he saw said their body as being the same

the difference between individuals is not what they have been created from but in their action and piety otherwise the view becomes equal to iblis who said he is better because his fire, if a person says muhamamd saw is better becuase his been created from light then these individuals are proving iblis right and the whole point of iblis an aadam as incident is to show iblis's wrong view of him being more powerfull and better simply becasue his fire and we are clay, in this case its better because of light and clay, same story here

as muslims the belief is a person is better becasue of good deeds by the mercy of allah not becasue we are clay light or fire

this is iblis's thought and as human and especially as muslims our thinking is at a higher and better level then him

its not just quoting verses from the quran it is also what those verses actually mean and the evidence provdied to prove tha tit truly means that

for example i said tafisr tabari and tafsir ibn kathir are the best tafsir books written becasue it has been unanimously agreed by the schoalrs which inlcude ibn taymiyyah and others

You wrote:

Question on did the prophet have a shadow?

It show the proofs on both sides with scholars supporting both positions in relation to that and concludes that it is not an issue to argue about.

for that we  check whos got the stronger evidence

http://islamqa.info/en/ref/75395

http://alkhilafah.net/shadow.html

You wrote:

Stronger will depend on who you ask.

and you will get groups that support one stance to favour the evidence in theirfavour while only acknowledging the opposite only when forced. Especially if they are not just answering a question, but offering a view, an understanding, which is never neutral.

for that you need to check the original verdict on the stregnth of the hadith, and the easiest way for a laymen to know is first to check if the weak or hasan hadith contradicts with the quran, and the second is to chekc if the weak or hasan hadith contradicts with a sahih hadith, if it contradicts with the quran it cant be right, and if it contradcits with a sahih hadith then it too cannot be correct for sahih hadith cannot be wrong while the weak and hadith is can and once it contradicts with the sahih it exposes its falseness and obviously witht eh quran it exposes it further

you look at those hadith what is the original verdict and does it contradict with quran and sahih hadith and that is all you need to knwo the reality of the hadith

You wrote:

and when there are no contradictions then you are back to square one.

for that you need to check the original verdict on the strength of the hadith

That is normally left for the more learned and if they still have disputes on it... the less learned will argue without reason.

books such as tirmidhi the original narrators themselves have already wrote whether the hadith is weak hasan fabricated or sahih, if its a fully translated book then in the bottom of all hadiths it would state its authenticity so again its not all htat difficult as people claim, now checking the chain of anrration is oen thing but checkign the authenicity of the hadith and its reasoning by the collector isnt too hard for thy ahve already written it

but in this case their are contradiction for the hadith which says their re shadows are strong the other is nto, and the second is always check the quran and quran again states

“Say (O Muhammad): I am only a man like you. It has been revealed to me that your Ilaah (God) is One Ilaah (God ___i.e. Allaah)”

[al-Kahf 18:110]

“Their Messengers said to them: We are no more than human beings like you”

[Ibraaheem 14:11]

besides muhamamd saw had parents and is one of  the sons of aadam as so being his son it makes no sense for him to be any different as creation, and as the quran states further he is a human being like us who cotnains all the human qualities, such as needing to eat, drink sleep and obviously have a shadow, and even without the quran as mentioned the sahih hadith vs weak contradiction sahih is to be accepted while the weak and hasan have to be rejected the sahih hadith here is he does have a shadow

and the throne of allah will also has a shadow so not having a shadow is nothing special, so it doesnt mke sense why muhamamd saw not having a shadow would make it any special for him, having a shadow is more logical and makes sense

You wrote:

See, thats what i mean.

You will stick to your guns even when confronted with different opinions.

No one is disputing the prophet was human.

No one is disputing that he was born. We are just saying that God could make him human AND special, and that doesn't detract from the powers of God.

Do you also consider that Prophet Isa (as), with no father, was also identical to all other humans?

aadam as has neither mother or father but he is still a human being, he is the most unique of them all in this miracle, but he still a human being for he is created to be huamn and from clay, so isa as being born without a father still makes him human for allah says:

Al-Emran Verse No:59  

Verily,

the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He

created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was.

they both have been created from dust, isa as was born without a father but he went through the life any regular human being would, but aadma as was the first born without neither and he dint go throught eh process we human go through for he was created as a adult but he was still human

these miracles do not contradict with them being regular buman being created from dust, they just have a certain miracle in them which again doesnt go away from their human identity, calling muhamamd saw light does

now i ask you iblis is  said tobe the father of jinns and shaytan is he any different from the rest no for he is a jinn and shaytan, what puts him different from the rest is he si the worst of the lot, this difference is based on his evil actions not the type of creation he is, his a jinn like other jinns created from fire, he is a shaytan like other shaytan but worse then them but he is still a jinnof fire, he doesnt have to be light clay or anything else to be different

Quote:

books such as tirmidhi the original narrators themselves have already wrote whether the hadith is weak hasan fabricated or sahih

Remember that fabricated is totally different from the others. If they decided that chain was weak, that does not make it fabricated, and its a modern invention to ignore ahadith that are of hasan or weak chain and only relying on sahih.

The Muhaddith categorised the ahadith, but there were still disputes between the scholars, and they exist now. But suddenly you have found the only true answers and any scholars of the past that agreed with your views, you approve of, those that didn't, you disapprove of.

weak hadith can be confirmed fabricated and so can hasan if the correct evidence is found, at the same time weak and hassan hadith can end up being sahih if the correct evidence can be shown

and as i mention the scholars of the past themselves stated one of the condition is that a hadith can never cotnradict with the quran, and if a weak and hasan hadith contradicts with the sahih hadith then its fabricated for how can muhamamd saw contradict with himself, this is islam not christianity

disputes is their in some hadiths, not all, one of thsoe example is the matter of salatul tasbih, but in matters of muhammad saw being noor their is no dispute regarding this in classcial scholars this only exists with sufis and shias, for even schoalrs of past have already declared it weak or fabricated: also regardign shadow:

Zakwan (a ta’bi’i) narrates that the shadow of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) did not show in the sun nor did it became apparent in the moonlight.” (Recorded by al-Hakim al-Tirmidhi (and not the famous hadith master Imam Abu Eisa al-Tirmidhi) in his Nawadir al-Usul. See: al-Khasa’is al-Kubrah of Imam Suyuti, 1/164)

The chain of transmission of this report is considered by many scholars of Hadith to be extremely weak (dha’if), and also, it does not go back to the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace), in that it is a statement of a student of a sahabi known as a Ta’bi’i. A report of such kind is termed as Maqtu’. One must also remember that this narration is not recorded by the famous Imam Tirmidhi in his Sunan collection (as some people believe); rather it has been recorded by a great 3rd century scholar of Tasawwuf and Islamic thought (fikr) known as Abu Abd Allah Muhammad al-Hakim al-Tirmidhi in his Nawadir al-usul fi ma’rifat ahadith al-rasul wherein he gathered various narrations pertaining to different aspects of Deen.

this is not a modern scholar view is it its of the classical scholars themselves

Quote:

Please tell me how these discussions benefit anyone when no one will change their views because of them?

I have already addressed the verses where the prophet is told to tell the kuffar that he is human like them and I added further context where the Prophet also told the sahabahs (ra) that he is not identical to them. We agree that the Qur'an says that the prophet is human and no one disputes that. The dispute that occurrs between people is over the logic over later stuff. Since it doesn't contradict the aqeedah and the scholars themselves have disputes in this matter, i can't see how you think you, as merely a follower of scholars of a specific mindset (instead of a scholar in your own right), think you can solve that.

it does because it shows you still have to know the science of hadith and the importance of knowing it

and i responded back by refuting them,  identical twins and a normal brother their might be differences, but in the end their still brothers and still human being made from clay, my sister and a sister in islam si different but their still human, they might not be identical in some aspects but are still same types of creation, same with muhamamd saw and prophets sahaba ra and the rest, i am not identical to the sahaba ra in the sense that they saw muhammad saw and i didnt but they are still human like me created from clay, i am not identical to my father either as he is my father, but he is still a human created from clay so am i, obviosuly i cant be clay and him light as that would make him different from me like a animal giving birth to a human that is not possible, i am human so my father too will be one, we're not identical in some aspects but we are both human being from clay but his status is higher then me for he's my father, what makes him superior to me is that his my father, he doesnt have to be light noor to have that position

with muhammad saw jsut because he has some different qualities in him doesnt mean he has to be a different type of creation, dhul qarnayn has his own mriacle but his still a human, dajjal as evil he is is also a human, infact he ahs been quoted as the son of aadam as, same with yajuj majuj, they are human being descendants of nuh as, again are they cratd from fire? no their human, different evil but still human, what seperates them from us is their action

now yajuj majuj and dajjal can do things which no other human can do, but are they human different to us? no their still human human with different qualities allah has given them but despite those they are still human made of clay which again does not go away from the human attributes allah have given us, they have been born from parents created by allah with clay

just becasue muhamamd saw could do certain things others couldnt doesnt mean he has to be created from fire, allah cna jsut make them do that

as i said aadam as is the msot unique of human being due to his miracle creation, but he is still human of clay despite his powerfull miracle, aadam as has been molded by the hands of allah, allah blew his soul in him, but he is still human

it is not just a matter of difference between scholars, its a matter of whats islam and what it not, and the falsehood spreading their flaseness in this ummah, this creates disunity in the ummah, becuase it creates a right belief and the wrong belief and difference between aqeedah is a major issue, ibn taymiyyah said do not allow shia and sufis in the army in jihad for their beleifs make them out of fold to participate, this shows its a major issue

Quote:

I believe that God can create the prophet however He (swt) so wishes and its not for me to quesiton ot attempt to limit this. Your "proofs" of the alternative I do not consider as proofs, but opinions that can be countered and argued against and I know that scholars of the opposite stance from you have also spent their lives studying qur'an and sunnah and have come to differing conclusions from you.

You will ofcourse favour the opinion that your favoured scholars portray, but the fact is that more than one opinion exists and scholars have had differing viewpoints for centuries, all having looked at the evidences.

Forums are great for learning and discussing, but when they turn to arguments of a circular nature where neither side will budge, then the arguments are a waste of time.

you sound like a guy who says if allah chooses to be wrong then it is to be accepted, it takes way his attributes from him, when allah has already revealed in the quran how he created things what gives the creation the right to claim somethign else

allah says in the quran that he created the heavens earth universe in 6 periods, if someone claims it was 60, it shall not be accepted for it is going against his quran, if someone claims allahc reated iblis from clay and we shoudl accept those view of people even if we dont beleive in it for it doesnt contradict or create shirk, what should we do accept? no we reject as this is clearly agains the quran, the scenario here is no different as it is something that clearly goes against quran

i ask you a simple question iblis did allah create him from clay if no why not

its not the matter of fact that can allah create iblis from clay its a matter that allah has revealed in the quran he didnt do that so why are you giving allah somethign which he never even did, this is called lying on allah, which is a serious issue

i will favour myy scholars tell me something if the 4 imams said one thign and your modern schoalrs said the opposite what would you do regarding aqeedah

Imam Abu Hanifah

Abu Muti' Al-Balkhi reported: "I asked Imam Abu Hanifah about a

person who says, 'I do not know whether my Rabb is, above the heavens or

on earth?' Abu Hanifah, may Allah grant him His mercy, said: 'A person

who makes such a statement becomes an apostate because Allah, the

Exalted says, 'The Merciful has ascended above the 'Arsh, and the 'Arsh

of Allah is above His heavens'.

I further asked Abu Hanifah, 'What if such a person admits, Allah is

above His 'Arsh, but exclaims, I do not know whether His 'Arsh is above

the heavens or on earth'. Abu Hanifah responded: 'If he denies that the

'Arsh is above the heavens, he is an apostate." [Sharh at-Tahawiyyah,

p. 288] If the person apostatizes by saying that he did not know where

is the 'Arsh of Allah, then by right a person who denies the Loftiness

of Allah altogether is definitely worse than an apostate.

if you truly have evidence youd show it

Lilly wrote:

havent read the whole thing, skimmed the top posts a bit.

 

just to say. becareful guys not to talk without knowledge. especially explaining tafsir. and giving your own opinion. advising here.

 

also, Abu, you show definite and repetitive signs of one of those members who come on here annd post like theres no tomorrow and then leave and disappear never to be seen again. why do you guys leave? do you feel you have fulfilled your dawah obligation? or do you feel that some members are here are people who will never be able to be guided?

i dont know, im not one of those guys am i,  so i cant answer that question, you have to ask those guys who do that

at "you" i do respect sheikh muhammad ibn adam i may have difference with a lot of his views but do agree with many like this

">http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LS0P-AZcrgI]

and one more thing if im not here in this forum after next week its not becasue im one of thsoe guys but its because i wont be in this country for  a month

as for guidance

"Verily, you (O Muhammad) guide not whom you like, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He knows best those who are the guided."

(28:56)

(92) The power needed to perform a duty is a gift from Allah, not an attribute possessed by man, and exists only with the action. However, power in the sense of health, potential, ability and fitness of the organs is prior to action and is the basis of obligation. “Allah does not place on any person a burden greater than he can bear” [2:286]

this is never our decision its upto allah, we just do our bit the rest is upto allah,  i am in this path because of allah's guidance and trying to get better because of allah's guidance, thats the case with all muslims and even nonmuslims