Wow

Interesting!

I wish some mad mullahs would listen to this

havent listened to it yet. but i heard that everything is allowed except that which has been forbidden, but for matters of worship, everything is forbidden except that which has been allowed.

anyone?

That is the case but sometimes people take it too far.

For instance, some will argue this topic is bid'ah. Why? because understanding and reading the qur'an is a form of worship and the prophet never specified that it must be read every saturday.

On the other hand I would apply a different interpretation to it, which will mean that even if the topic creator gets bored, but others still continue doing so, she will still get rewarded for their good actions.

EDIT - Beyond this, posts from another topic have been merged into one. Lets hope it is not confusing.

Sorry to interrupt but may I ask a question?

I really like this idea but Why would some people think that this was Bid'ah?
+ How do you separate what's Bidah and what's initiating a good practice?

Ocean wrote:

MakeMeRawr_8TeenF wrote:

Sorry to interrupt but may I ask a question?

I really like this idea but Why would some people think that this was Bid'ah?
+ How do you separate what's Bidah and what's initiating a good practice?

hmm exblain me more...

What exactly is the Bid'ah part? Who said what? Are you talking about where we exblain what the ayah translate to and how we personalise it?

PS, you're more than welcome to ask Questions (as long as they are relevant), don't have to ask!

Ahah I asked because of how stern you were about No Chit Chat

Well, he doesn't think it is but from another topic:

You wrote:

For instance, some will argue this topic is bid'ah. Why? because understanding and reading the qur'an is a form of worship and the prophet never specified that it must be read every saturday.

So like, is this potentially sinful? And how do you set it apart from negative Bid'ah?
And even if it is Bid'ah, can't it still be good, because of good intentions?

Ocean wrote:

You want me to delete the every saturday bit? :roll:

Bloody hell! (and please don't be alarmed but) ARGHHHHH

I thought Every saturday would make it a routine thing, and I did add that everyone can add whatever they come across whenever they want...

and who said what about reward, I'm not looking for reward I'm looking for understanding stuff, understanding what I read.

But then, wouldnt that be kinda like saying
Kids going to mosque every Saturday was Bid'ah/Haraam/Whatever? :S

Nowt wrong with this topic.

I was just using this topic to explain something in another topic.

I was getting to how centuries ago, people started off traditions of doing things on certain days for whatever reasons and now people who copy that are sometimes criticised by some sectarian people as to why they do it on those certain days.

It was probably wrong to bring this topic into it.

You wrote:

Nowt wrong with this topic.

I was just using this topic to explain something in another topic.

I was getting to how centuries ago, people started off traditions of doing things on certain days for whatever reasons and now people who copy that are sometimes criticised by some sectarian people as to why they do it on those certain days.

It was probably wrong to bring this topic into it.

I believe I mentioned that you didn't think it was Bid'ah, but that those were potential reasons why.

I once heard that the added punctuation to Quranic Arabic was Bid'ah, Don't know if it's true though :S

arabs don't need the punctuation.

and it is a bid'ah as in it was created to help non arabs read the language.

but it is not a "bad bid'ah" and you will not hear anyone criticise it.

You wrote:

arabs don't need the punctuation.

and it is a bid'ah as in it was created to help non arabs read the language.

but it is not a "bad bid'ah" and you will not hear anyone criticise it.

Why not? Because it's Useful?

So Innovation is allowed insofar as it is Pragmatic??

innovation is allowed insofar as it is not wrong.

There are two views on innoivation:

1. It is not allowed in religious matters. IE, being able to read arabic is not strictly religious matter, even if the hints are used for this mainly.

2. It is only considered as a (bad) innovation if it actually contradicts qur'an and hadith.

I fall into the latter camp as there are many small things that were done that were of convenience and didn't contradict the qur'an and sunnah. This includes the tarawih by Jama'ah and also even the sitting in rows for friday prayer.

Ocean wrote:

MakeMeRawr_8TeenF wrote:

I just want to know why it isn't for the sake of justifying good innovative things generally tbh.

Interesting. Are they "allowed" if it's a personal good innovation? But the risk is people following it and turning it into something holy?

I really haven't got a clue.

It all came out with that Mawlid stuff being Bid'ah
And people justifying it by saying the Janazah's and Punctuation were also Bid'ah so Bid'ah's good, I've been confused about it since then really :/

I kind of thought that it was good until it became a sort of culty thing, like "we HAVE to do this act or we're going to hell" like?

But then I saw the matters of worship thing and I got confused all over again ¬_¬

You wrote:

innovation is allowed insofar as it is not wrong.

There are two views on innovation:

1. It is not allowed in religious matters. IE, being able to read arabic is not strictly religious matter, even if the hints are used for this mainly.

2. It is only considered as a (bad) innovation if it actually contradicts qur'an and hadith.

I fall into the latter camp as there are many small things that were done that were of convenience and didn't contradict the qur'an and sunnah. This includes the tarawih by Jama'ah and also even the sitting in rows for friday prayer.

How do you justify them in the face of the 'All things are forbidden unless allowed..' etc ayah thing?

MakeMeRawr_8TeenF wrote:

How do you justify them in the face of the 'All things are forbidden unless allowed..' etc ayah thing?

The hadith/principle actually says the opposite - that everything is allowed unless forbidden.

You wrote:

MakeMeRawr_8TeenF wrote:

How do you justify them in the face of the 'All things are forbidden unless allowed..' etc ayah thing?

The hadith/principle actually says the opposite - that everything is allowed unless forbidden.

Grr, I wasn't quoting directly, I was referring you to that

"...but for matters of worship, everything is forbidden except that which has been allowed." That's not the opposite anyway, still a question of this is clearly definition one of your Bid'ah and not 2 which you, I and most ascribe to.

Ocean wrote:

MakeMeRawr_8TeenF wrote:

I kind of thought that it was good until it became a sort of culty thing, like "we HAVE to do this act or we're going to hell" like?

Me no like that sort of stuff, and tbh that makes me walk AWAY from Islam rather then get closer to it. So so negative, SO off-putting.

MakeMeRawr_8TeenF wrote:

But then I saw the matters of worship thing and I got confused all over again ¬_¬

matters of worship like?

Agreed, it is very. And takes away from the whole Pure Intentions thing, I feel.

Matters of worship like anything to do with religion?

Like obviously watching Spongebob is neither here nor there religion-wise so it's moot, but say like always praying late and then getting into the habit and basically giving yourself new prayer times is definitely religious. I'm pretty sure those are bad examples.

let me awaken this and throw in another idea.

in terms of worship: it is bidah if it could haven been done in the time of the prophet (pbuh) but he didnt do it.

i think: in terms of worship, it is ALL forbidden until proven allowed
for the rest, it is ALL allowed until proven forbidden.

(i think)

Lilly wrote:

let me awaken this and throw in another idea.

in terms of worship: it is bidah if it could haven been done in the time of the prophet (pbuh) but he didnt do it.

But it could be good or bad biddah?

Quote:

i think: in terms of worship, it is ALL forbidden until proven allowed
for the rest, it is ALL allowed until proven forbidden.

(i think)

What's your evidence for this?