Muslimah_Traveller wrote:

Admmin wrote:

a semi-empty forum?

you mean semi-full forum

aww nice to see a positive person around here lol

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:

Muslimah_Traveller wrote:

Admmin wrote:

a semi-empty forum?

you mean semi-full forum

aww nice to see a positive person around here lol

uff yeh tell me about it - tnx

salaam u need to read da fatwa before u start critisising. i was at the launch so hence it is my duty to tell u the shaykh did say he is not the only one to CONDEMN it but what he said is it is the first comprehensive fatwa against it in this day and age many scholars condemn it and thats it but the shaykh has explained how these terorist are not part of islam literally as in kafirs through quran and sunnah

calm down ed, he is entitled to his opinion and there is no need to resort to insults.

oh and you should edit your post (remove admins name as he edited your post before).

hm... what did he say? I am interested in knowing. Not fair if some other people read a post about me and I didn't.

and running away from a reasonable discussions is a part of the problem. They should be encouraged and joined in.

Its not like I even really criticised. Just added a bit of doubt that was in my mind which people jumped on "how dare thou criticise this scholar, for he is mine."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NvhdYQlpfM

MakeMeRawr_6TeenF wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NvhdYQlpfM

what about it?

Noor wrote:

MakeMeRawr_6TeenF wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NvhdYQlpfM

what about it?

Well i heard someone quote something once, can't remember who from, when, or the exact wording but something like

"it's better to call a hundred people Muslims who are kafir than call one person a kafir"

That vid reminded me of that and i was wondering if it had any relevance to this.

Coz he's calling people Kafir

">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S82ZzbQMa0]

MakeMeRawr_6TeenF wrote:

Noor wrote:

MakeMeRawr_6TeenF wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NvhdYQlpfM

what about it?

Well i heard someone quote something once, can't remember who from, when, or the exact wording but something like

"it's better to call a hundred people Muslims who are kafir than call one person a kafir"

That vid reminded me of that and i was wondering if it had any relevance to this.

Coz he's calling people Kafir

Different thing here because the ahmaddiya consider their leader a prophet.

WHile yes there are other Muslims groups who fight each other with takfir, there is no unanimity there. In the case of the ahmadiyya, there is unanimity of view there.

"You don't know what is in their hearts" is countered by "you do kno what they say".

But some of what he says has a point. Just not for the Ahmadiyya movement.

We can use the story of Musaylama al-Kazzab (Musaylma the liar) as precedent here. He in the time of the Prophet declared prophethood. He was called a liar by the Prophet (saw). There was war between his followers and the Muslims (which may have started after the Prophet (saw)'s death).

You wrote:

MakeMeRawr_6TeenF wrote:

Noor wrote:

MakeMeRawr_6TeenF wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NvhdYQlpfM

what about it?

Well i heard someone quote something once, can't remember who from, when, or the exact wording but something like

"it's better to call a hundred people Muslims who are kafir than call one person a kafir"

That vid reminded me of that and i was wondering if it had any relevance to this.

Coz he's calling people Kafir

Different thing here because the ahmaddiya consider their leader a prophet.

WHile yes there are other Muslims groups who fight each other with takfir, there is no unanimity there. In the case of the ahmadiyya, there is unanimity of view there.

"You don't know what is in their hearts" is countered by "you do kno what they say".

But some of what he says has a point. Just not for the Ahmadiyya movement.

We can use the story of Musaylama al-Kazzab (Musaylma the liar) as precedent here. He in the time of the Prophet declared prophethood. He was called a liar by the Prophet (saw). There was war between his followers and the Muslims (which may have started after the Prophet (saw)'s death).

I know. I listened to it, that's why i said that that vid REMINDED me of that concept, i didn't think it was directly related to this

Yeah, I have this habit of going on a bit too much.

its funny how this fatwa doesnt even have any quotes from the quran or hadith HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA what a joke, besides you have scholars stating suicide bombing to be haram nearly everyday on peace tv islam channel, yusuf estes, zakir naik, their was even a scholar i8n pakistan who talked about this issue in pakistan last year, he gave a better fatwa aswell, one that actually had evidence from the quran and sunnah, but out of all the good ones out their who do the media use, the deviant of course

hudhafah wrote:

its funny how this fatwa doesnt even have any quotes from the quran or hadith HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA what a joke

Nor does your one-paragraph rebuttal. Are you sure his 600-page fatwa doesn't contain any references or citations?

hudhafah wrote:

besides you have scholars stating suicide bombing to be haram nearly everyday on peace tv islam channel, yusuf estes, zakir naik, their was even a scholar i8n pakistan who talked about this issue in pakistan last year, he gave a better fatwa aswell, one that actually had evidence from the quran and sunnah

Some scholar in Pakistan, eh? Thanks for being serious about giving people well-sourced information.

hudhafah wrote:

but out of all the good ones out their who do the media use, the deviant of course

Sure the media used him, probably sent a journalist down with 600 pages to ask for his autograph. That's what I call a deviant with egg on his face, eh?

hudhafah wrote:

... besides you have scholars stating suicide bombing to be haram nearly everyday on peace tv islam channel, yusuf estes, zakir naik...

I am quite sure he instead of answering the question spun it another way so that he did not have to give a straight answer.

Dr Qadri even mentions one of the reasons from him giving a comprehensive writing was simply because some scholars would speak double speak.

Having heard Dr Zakir Naik and his inability to condemn terrorism (and cowardice of not being clear either way), I would be surprised if he was not one that was being referred to.

Dr Zakir Naik is a sham.

hudhafah wrote:

its funny how this fatwa doesnt even have any quotes from the quran or hadith

Not true.

That summary pdf on page one linked to by Muslimah Traveller quotes this verse:

“When it is said to them: ‘Do not spread disorder in the land,’ they say: ‘It is we who reform.’ Beware! (Truly) it is they who spread disorder, but they do not have any sense (of it) at all.”
(Al-Qur’an, 2:11-12)

TheRevivalEditor wrote:

hudhafah wrote:

its funny how this fatwa doesnt even have any quotes from the quran or hadith HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA what a joke, besides you have scholars stating suicide bombing to be haram nearly everyday on peace tv islam channel, yusuf estes, zakir naik, their was even a scholar i8n pakistan who talked about this issue in pakistan last year, he gave a better fatwa aswell, one that actually had evidence from the quran and sunnah, but out of all the good ones out their who do the media use, the deviant of course

a few points
the english summary of the fatwa is about 50 pages, IT'S A SUMMARY AND ONLY CAPTURES THE MAIN BULLET POINTS- the actual fatwa is 604 pages and is not available in full in english yet, so for u to say it contains no quran or hadith is a lie. Wait for the full fatwa to be available before u comment unless your intention is something else
Regarding references in the fatwa, if u read the bibliography used for the references you will see there are an incredible 172 books mentioned which include tafsirs of many books of quran and hadith by classical scholars aswell as many books of fiqh by eminent classical scholars!
zakir naik and his boyz say terrorism is haram...actually naik dodges the question alot, shys away from condemning bin ladin, too scared to call terrorism terrorism, no guts to call muslim terrorists because they are muslims, a taliban sympathiser, makes escuses for em all...
in terms of the others u mentioned, easy to say terrorism is haram but not easy to produce a 604 page comprehensive fatwa in light of quran, sunnah and ijma in order to deter and discourage muslims even to come close to terrorism..... suicide bombing openly admitted by muslims is increasing in pakistan, iraq and all over the world- thats why this fatwa is so important.
the reason why hudaifa and his salafi gang are burning is because 'their scholar' couldnt produce anything as major or significant as this, so rather than appreciating the efforts of dr qadri they have nothing left to do but poke fun....as that is what they are famous for.

if u read ALL of hudaifas post on this forum they are all sectarian and talk about nothing other than brelwis, sufis, against scholars, claiming how everyone else apart from him is mushrik and bid'ati- this is the real cancer in our times and is what is really damaging the muslim ummah.

THANK YOU TO TheRevivalEditor ! JZK !

Shaykh-ul-Islam Dr Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri will appear on
CNN 'Christiane Amanpour' program LIVE on Thursday, 11 March at 8PM (UK Time)

SOURCE

the interviews are not the big thing (for us). I might actually read it when the translation is up to see what it says.

Muslimah_Traveller wrote:

TheRevivalEditor wrote:

hudhafah wrote:

its funny how this fatwa doesnt even have any quotes from the quran or hadith HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA what a joke, besides you have scholars stating suicide bombing to be haram nearly everyday on peace tv islam channel, yusuf estes, zakir naik, their was even a scholar i8n pakistan who talked about this issue in pakistan last year, he gave a better fatwa aswell, one that actually had evidence from the quran and sunnah, but out of all the good ones out their who do the media use, the deviant of course

a few points
the english summary of the fatwa is about 50 pages, IT'S A SUMMARY AND ONLY CAPTURES THE MAIN BULLET POINTS- the actual fatwa is 604 pages and is not available in full in english yet, so for u to say it contains no quran or hadith is a lie. Wait for the full fatwa to be available before u comment unless your intention is something else
Regarding references in the fatwa, if u read the bibliography used for the references you will see there are an incredible 172 books mentioned which include tafsirs of many books of quran and hadith by classical scholars aswell as many books of fiqh by eminent classical scholars!
zakir naik and his boyz say terrorism is haram...actually naik dodges the question alot, shys away from condemning bin ladin, too scared to call terrorism terrorism, no guts to call muslim terrorists because they are muslims, a taliban sympathiser, makes escuses for em all...
in terms of the others u mentioned, easy to say terrorism is haram but not easy to produce a 604 page comprehensive fatwa in light of quran, sunnah and ijma in order to deter and discourage muslims even to come close to terrorism..... suicide bombing openly admitted by muslims is increasing in pakistan, iraq and all over the world- thats why this fatwa is so important.
the reason why hudaifa and his salafi gang are burning is because 'their scholar' couldnt produce anything as major or significant as this, so rather than appreciating the efforts of dr qadri they have nothing left to do but poke fun....as that is what they are famous for.

if u read ALL of hudaifas post on this forum they are all sectarian and talk about nothing other than brelwis, sufis, against scholars, claiming how everyone else apart from him is mushrik and bid'ati- this is the real cancer in our times and is what is really damaging the muslim ummah.

THANK YOU TO TheRevivalEditor ! JZK !

really he does:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEQRLYA6qas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVtADPzyWTA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyfzIx0MhTo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utHBJmQIz7g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnTmrSRoGis

he calls bush a terrorist openly in one of them, your qadri hugs and kisses nonmuslims like their his children and celebrates with them

dont mess with me man especially when you ahve no evidence to prove your words like that qadri of yours

Calling Bush a terrorist is easy.

Calling out the rotten apples in your own side is harder and something he has completely failed at.

Mashallah, it was good that Tahir ul Qadri said the right thing. He is one of sunnis scholars who i like to hear.

He often comes on urdu language Ahlebait TV, on SKY channel 836,
and on English version Ahlulbayt TV, SKY channel 842.

I think Tahir ul Qadri was interviewed by sister Rebecca Masterton who converted
to Sunni and then to Shia. She is a theology teacher in London.

yes, I agree with malik, However to those who are quick to criticize, what part of a fatwa is a big deal is hard to understand? I don't get it! A fatwa is suppose to only be issued when all else fails and the situation is out of control and difficult to handle then the scholars are meant to issue a fatwa.... as a last resort so this can vary from scholar to scholar then why are we judging that Shaykh has only just given a fatwa. Yes scholars before him have issued however he sees this as the right time for it and inshallah i hope there does not come a time again when a fatwa has to be issued as i'm sure we would all like t live in peace and harmony.

You wrote:

Calling Bush a terrorist is easy.

Calling out the rotten apples in your own side is harder and something he has completely failed at.

actually even that has been stated by zakir naik, whenever he says the phrase so called muslims, as for calling bush terrorist i dont see any sufi scholars like tahirul qadri having the guts to say that, infact they rather call the muslims who are being attacked by the americans terrorist, who started the war america, what are palestine and afghans doing, defending in return what do sufi barelvi call them terrorist, you have a guy who defends the kafir infact goes and celebrates with them and then comes out and gives some so called 600 page nonsense, besides if tahirul qadri was to show the bad things about his people he should start with himself for being a deviant and commiting shirk openly.

It is agreed upon that Bush and his war policies were a bad thing. By all people.

I am not going to look at newspaper archives, but I am sure that there were plenty of newspaper articles with him condemning the ways of Bush. (They have their newspaper clipings online on their site if you want to read them).

So that calls a lie to your claim.

98% of al qaeda's victims are other Muslims. You are supporting the bloodshed of fellow Muslims who all they want to do is go to school, go to work, go to the market to buy food. What have you got against these people that you support their slaughter?

That is the heart of the matter - Muslims should always choose right over wrong, even if they identify with people who are doing wrong as ones of their own.

We are accountable to Allah (swt), not to Osama.

Before you call the 600 pages nonsense, you have tor ead it. and if it contains ahadith and qur'an, you atleast cannot call those bits nonsense. ofcourse, it would fit your bill, since denying the qur'an may support your cause...

You wrote:

It is agreed upon that Bush and his war policies were a bad thing. By all people.

I am not going to look at newspaper archives, but I am sure that there were plenty of newspaper articles with him condemning the ways of Bush. (They have their newspaper clipings online on their site if you want to read them).

So that calls a lie to your claim.

98% of al qaeda's victims are other Muslims. You are supporting the bloodshed of fellow Muslims who all they want to do is go to school, go to work, go to the market to buy food. What have you got against these people that you support their slaughter?

That is the heart of the matter - Muslims should always choose right over wrong, even if they identify with people who are doing wrong as ones of their own.

We are accountable to Allah (swt), not to Osama.

Before you call the 600 pages nonsense, you have tor ead it. and if it contains ahadith and qur'an, you atleast cannot call those bits nonsense. ofcourse, it would fit your bill, since denying the qur'an may support your cause...

i am simply supportin them fighting against america, if theirs any other bad acts they do that i dont support, but question is whether they really do this thing, im not gonna take what bbc says about taliban