Geer Wilders Anti-Qur’an Film

Well we'll have to see the case as it progresses, and see what the film REALLY had, if it incited hatred then yeah, at the very least he should apologise to the public.
You know he used an innocent rapper's photo when describing the killer of Theo van Gogh, which is clearly defamation. But as I said before we'll have to wait and see.

Is this son of a bitch still alive. :twisted: Pardon my language but it had to be said. I honestly thought someone would have shot him dead for insulting islam .people like him should be severley punished for insulting islam and shouldn't get away with it. :evil:

erm... I disagree strongly.

Live and let live.

What is so bad about insulting Islam? Let them.

A greater to insult to Islam is the lack of sanctity for life as portrayed in your post, especially considering that you are a Muslim.

Rather than screaming that he should be killed and making us Muslims seems like cowards, why not challenge what he believes in? Criticise what he did, don't say he shouldn't insult Islam, because that just makes the situation worse. We need to find other ways of blepsing him, and one of them is through debate.

Dutch MP banned from entering UK

A Dutch MP who described the Koran as a "fascist book" has been banned from entering the UK amid fears his presence would endanger public security.

Freedom Party MP Geert Wilders was invited to show his controversial film - which links the Islamic holy book to terrorism - in the UK's House of Lords.

But Mr Wilders, who faces trial in his own country for inciting hatred, has been denied entry by the Home Office.

Mr Wilders said the move was "cowardly" but one peer said it was "welcome"...

Read more @ BBC News

And an alternative view:

Britain capitulates to terror

If anyone had doubted the extent to which Britain has capitulated to Islamic terror, the banning of Geert Wilders a few hours ago should surely open their eyes. Wilders, the Dutch member of parliament who had made an uncompromising stand against the Koranic sources of Islamist extremism and violence, was due to give a screening of Fitna, his film on this subject, at the House of Lords on Thursday. This meeting had been postponed after Lord Ahmed had previously threatened the House of Lords authorities that he would bring a force of 10,000 Muslims to lay siege to the Lords if Wilders was allowed to speak. To their credit, the Lords authorities had stood firm and said extra police would be drafted in to meet this threat and the Wilders meeting should go ahead.

But now the government has announced that it is banning Wilders from the country...

Read more @ The spectator.

assalamu alaikum

I hope Tariq Ramadan hears this I respectfully disagree with you. There was a time when men of this ummah would take out an army to defend the honour of one muslim woman. I'm not suggesting we take out an army for this dutch dude. But have the men of this ummah become like women who sit at home and do their nails? Today we are told to keep silent when ppl insult our prophet ﷺ and trash our holy book. Silence is not always the best defence. Silence is tantamount to doing nothing. Silence is something you exercise when you have tried with good manners to rebut an argument. Silence is something you exercise if you have nothing good to say. Silence is something you exercise when you don't wish to backbite someone. This is not the time for intelligent ppl of this ummah to be silent.By keeping quiet will this whole thing blow over? This film could turn many muslims out of Islam, and turn those who are interested in Islam away from it further. I think scholars need to speak up, intelligent charismatic scholars, this is their duty. Laymen like me with little knowledge should keep quite because we do more harm with our good intentions. I am against burning effigies, and marches are so futile, just make us feel good. Du'a is better than street marches and thereafter dialogue. We should support those scholars who are defending us as well.

YouAnd an alternative view:

Britain capitulates to terror

If anyone had doubted the extent to which Britain has capitulated to Islamic terror, the banning of Geert Wilders a few hours ago should surely open their eyes. Wilders, the Dutch member of parliament who had made an uncompromising stand against the Koranic sources of Islamist extremism and violence, was due to give a screening of Fitna, his film on this subject, at the House of Lords on Thursday. This meeting had been postponed after Lord Ahmed had previously threatened the House of Lords authorities that he would bring a force of 10,000 Muslims to lay siege to the Lords if Wilders was allowed to speak. To their credit, the Lords authorities had stood firm and said extra police would be drafted in to meet this threat and the Wilders meeting should go ahead.

But now the government has announced that it is banning Wilders from the country...

Read more @ The spectator.

The Spectator is a very right wing news paper anyway, that's the one Boris Johnson wrote in after the wake of 7/7, we all know what he wrote and how he tried to cover it up.

Anyway, Hajjar, I don't think anyone's saying we should shut up, but we are saying is that we should react in the right way. Why not do Dua and demonstrate? Doesn't it show him that democratic people don't agree with him.

The film should be challenged, no doubt about it.

And the director should also be held responsible, for I wasted like 15 minutes watching that cr*p. It was very poorly done. Where were the production values?

As for the argument of defending the Prophet (saw), the qur'an etc, the former should be done, but in the latter not just a book. A very important book, but demanding blood over it being insults - is that justice or emotion speaking? Would that be Muslims dishonouring the book by not acting upon Islam?

(This is a question, not a astatement - I remember when I heard about it being defaced in Guantanamo and I was very very angry, but I have no idea if that "blood lust" was a righteous thought or not... people?)

i don't believe in democratic marches anymore, such a waste of time. Better to use that time jogging than walking the streets, what did it do for Iraqi citizens, what did it do for Palestinian cause, salman rushdie book and the list goes on nothing at all. Unless i'm failing to see what achievements were gained please tell me.

If a sane, open minded citizen with no malice towards non muslims feels this way how many muslims totally full of hatred feel this way. Democracy in this country is a joke. Apparently there are two laws in this country one which permits freedom of speech within boundaries...what an oxymoron within boundaries lol. Another law that states ppl like this dutch dude cannot step the line and incite, provoke a certain group/individuals. So this mp may be booted out for now, but he has a legal case to get into the UK anyway, which i'm sure he will follow through.

How should we react, it's natural to have anger, to be full of emotions. But unfortunately this is what the media lives on like a parasite on blood, that's its lifeline. All you have to do is switch on the radio in the morning and almost everyday there's a guaranteed anti muslim rant. Which is discussed for hrs without one muslim expert on the scene. This is why I haven't picked up a newspaper for a good 4 months or more, nor bothered to tune in to radio stations as i once did. It makes me despair, sometimes. shaytan starts making me question my faith, when a few mins earlier i was completely content. This is the power of propaganda. So i will not waste my time seeing that anti islamic vid. If this is the effect it is having on my spiritual well being, as an individual who is trying to practice, what sort of effect will it have on muslims who have islam on the fringes of their life?

P.S propaganda is a powerful tool. say the word terrorist what's the first word that comes to mind...? Who do you think programmed this into us the tooth fairy?

Hajjari don't believe in democratic marches anymore, such a waste of time. Better to use that time jogging than walking the streets, what did it do for Iraqi citizens, what did it do for Palestinian cause, salman rushdie book and the list goes on nothing at all. Unless i'm failing to see what achievements were gained please tell me.

If a sane, open minded citizen with no malice towards non muslims feels this way how many muslims totally full of hatred feel this way. Democracy in this country is a joke.

I agree with this - if 2 million people in London protesting cannot achieve anything, what use are the marches?

(I actually suggest an article on this would be a good idea. A "deathmatch" between a person who believes in participation Vs one who is disillusioned by it [rather than ideologically opposed to it].)

On the other hand, they may be used as an outlet and not let people go down darker paths (violence, mass murder), and the people protesting are carrying out their religious duty by speaking out against the injustice that they see, so it is a good thing.

HajjarApparently there are two laws in this country one which permits freedom of speech within boundaries...what an oxymoron within boundaries lol. Another law that states ppl like this dutch dude cannot step the line and incite, provoke a certain group/individuals. So this mp may be booted out for now, but he has a legal case to get into the UK anyway, which i'm sure he will follow through.

"Freedom of Speech" is an American concept, but even there is a concept of "fair use" such as not shouting "Fire!" in a cinema.

HajjarHow should we react, it's natural to have anger, to be full of emotions. But unfortunately this is what the media lives on like a parasite on blood, that's its lifeline. All you have to do is switch on the radio in the morning and almost everyday there's a guaranteed anti muslim rant. Which is discussed for hrs without one muslim expert on the scene. This is why I haven't picked up a newspaper for a good 4 months or more, nor bothered to tune in to radio stations as i once did. It makes me despair, sometimes. shaytan starts making me question my faith, when a few mins earlier i was completely content. This is the power of propaganda. So i will not waste my time seeing that anti islamic vid. If this is the effect it is having on my spiritual well being, as an individual who is trying to practice, what sort of effect will it have on muslims who have islam on the fringes of their life?

P.S propaganda is a powerful tool. say the word terrorist what's the first word that comes to mind...? Who do you think programmed this into us the tooth fairy?

Propaganda can be challenged by the truth (and should win, but its not a definite)

As for despair, Allah (swt) is the best of planners and I would think its better than Islam is on the media - even as a negative thing that not on there at all - it will make some people think, and it will also challenge Muslims to get answers, to think about their faith. Some people will become stronger because of it, others will find because of it.

Unfortunately, some may also lose their guidance because of it, but here we must rely on Allah (swt) and pray for his guidance and to be kept on the right path.

This clip contains some good points about why this hate merchant should be banned from entering UK:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ou2P5ixMPQ

Personally i think he shud have been allowed to enter UK. he wud have come, shown his film and gone. who would hav enoticed. now he has been refused it has become international issue and pefect excuse for the islamophobes to have a dig.

so what if he made a poor 15 min doc against islam. theres million on the net already. are we so weak and scared!!!!

his film could have been easily refuted. Muslims nowadays are afraif to have intellect debate but rather have a moan, march, argue, fight, play the victim....

It was not the Muslims who banned him. It was the UK government and the guy has charges against of him of mentioning the nazis/holocaust or something. Godwins law.

YouIt was not the Muslims who banned him. It was the UK government and the guy has charges against of him of mentioning the nazis/holocaust or something. Godwins law.

I tried that the other day with friends. I said that if anyone brings Hitler into an argument, they immediately lose it. The guy replied, "I dunno, if you were to bring out Hitler here I'd be pretty scared of him and let you win."

Good counter.

what i was trying to say earlier:

Geert Wilders? He's not worth it
Robert Fox
guardian.co. uk,
Wednesday 11 February 2009 15.11 GMT
http://www.guardian .co.uk/commentis free/2009/ feb/11/race- netherlands

The anti-Muslim Dutch MP does not deserve the publicity his banning from Britain and prosecution in the Netherlands provide

There is a whiff of political surrealism about the tale of Geert Wilders, the virulently anti-Islamic Dutch MP who has been banned from coming to London this week on public order grounds. He had received an invitation to show his documentary short "Fitna", a chaotic rant calling for the banning of the Koran – being "worse than Hitler's Mein Kampf" in the MP's view – and the rejection of Islam.

Lord Ahmed, the Labour peer, had vigorously protested about the Dutch politician and his film, and said they should not darken the doors of the Palace of Westminster. On Tuesday night, according to the Daily Telegraph, the banning order was issued by the government. Wilders has made hay, declaring this an attack on his freedom of speech and getting the Dutch foreign minister to complain to David Miliband. Enjoying his martyr role, Wilders plans to challenge the ban and says he now needs 24-hour police protection.

There seems to be a huge amount of hyperbole about the reaction of the authorities to Wilders, leader of the hard-right and crudely populist Dutch party for Freedom (PVV). The film came out last year. Patently, it isn't much good. It can be widely seen on the Internet on the sister channel to Wikipedia, Wikileak.

The film is crass in its presentation, crude and vulgar in its message. It picks extracts from a handful of Suras of the Kuran about Jihad and fighting the enemies of Allah. These are matched by a string of violent images, opening with sequences of the 9/11 attacks in New York, and at the Atocha railway station in Madrid in 2004. A sequence is shown of the bodies of two American soldiers being dragged through the streets of Mogadishu in 1993. This is characteristic of the film's oversimplification – because, at that stage in 1993, the Americans and their allies were trying to wrest the Somali capital from the hands of the warlord Mohamed Farrah Aidid. Islam and al-Qaida were then merely incidental to the story – however much the propagandists have tried to rewrite history subsequently to show these as the opening rounds in George W Bush's global "war on terror".

When the film appeared last April, it didn't cause the trouble and public disquiet its author obviously wanted. Possibly, this was because it so badly made, plus the fact that no mainstream Dutch TV channel wanted to show it. A small Dutch Muslim station did offer to air it, which Wilders refused, in keeping with his "Through the Looking Glass" logic throughout the entire episode.

Wilders is now pitching to be seen as a martyr of political correctness and censorship. In Holland, and now in Britain, he claims to have been gagged and prevented the right of free speech. The fact that he claims the right of free speech to curtail the rights of free speech, and freedom of prayer and preaching, to Europe's Muslims seems to him neither here nor there. The libertarian conservative MEP and columnist Daniel Hannan has argued in his blog in the Telegraph that Jacqui Smith's ban on the MP gives him more publicity than he deserves, and that he should have been let in, allowed to strut his stuff and then consigned to oblivion.

Even writing about him seems to give him more profile than he deserves, but the problem is that these cases are beginning to crop up increasingly often. Most of the public is pretty level-headed about these things. It's the authorities that seem to give them more than they are due.

Towards the end of last year, a court in Amsterdam appeared to play into Wilders' hands – just as what little controversy there had been was dying down. It decided to prosecute the MP for incitement to hatred and causing insult. One wonders why the court wanted to offer Wilders such a golden opportunity to claim the status of judicial martyr.

He does seem to care about his time in court in Amsterdam, however, and this appears imminent. Last week, he announced he was hiring one of the Netherlands' most celebrated lawyers, Bram Moskowicz, to get the case thrown out in the Amsterdam Court of Appeal. This ploy is unlikely to succeed.

The case recalls the controversy surrounding the anti-Islamic video presentation "Shame", made by Theo van Gogh and Ayaan Hirsi Ali – which led to his assassination by a young Dutch Moroccan and her flight to the United States. The underpinnings of that drama were brilliantly portrayed by Ian Buruma in his book, Murder in Amsterdam: The Death of Theo van Gogh and the Limits of Tolerance. The parallels and differences between the van Gogh story and the Wilders case have been drawn out last month in a characteristically lucid opinion article by Buruma in the International Herald Tribune.

Though Wilders exploits the fame of van Gogh and Hirsi Ali, and radical anti-immigration stance of the populist Pym Fortuyn, he was not part of their movement or party. After van Gogh was killed, Wilders stayed away from parliament, saying he feared for his life – though his critics have cast doubt on this. As a populist performer, he is just not in the same class as the other three.

Before the film Fitna (meaning "disagreement and division among peoples") could be seen on the web, it had to be edited because, among other reasons, Wilders failed to get copyright clearance for reproducing the Danish newspaper cartoons. This seems in keeping with the almost shambolic way in which it has been put together. More crass the film itself is the interview Wilders is currently running on YouTube. Here he persists referring to the Qur'an as "this fascist book", and to Islam as "this wrong ideology", without ever defining his terms.

Ian Buruma surely has a point when he concludes there must be limits to the right to insult for the sake of it, while upholding the right to criticise. But the authorities, judicial, political and spiritual, must show more common sense. To pursue the authors of Fitna and their like with prosecutions and official guidelines about social cohesion, cultural relativities and mutual respect is to follow them into the descending spiral of their own absurdity.

The trouble is that the indications of officially and unofficially sanctioned intolerance and insult are on the up. This week, Ian Buruma again has highlighted here the bizarre growth of antisemitic polemic in a Chinese bestseller about the current crisis in capitalism – and in a country and culture that has almost no tradition of antisemitism.

The malaise of extreme language was depicted with stunning accuracy by Thucydides in his account of the civil war in Corcyra:

"Any idea of moderation was just an attempt to disguise one's unmanly character; ability to understand a question from all sides meant that one was totally unfitted for action ... Anyone who held violent opinions could be trusted, and anyone who objected to them became a suspect."

That was in 427 BC. What a long way we haven't come.

ignore the devil, he's acheived the publicity he wanted by pulling this stunt.

also, credit to Lud Nazeer Ahmed - strong words that are rarely from leading Muslim figures

--My experience is that hostility to the west and sympathy to AQ and similar groups is widespread, as is the propaganda of groups like HT and their dominance on campus. I don't find it odd that prominent Muslims are expected to create a distance, and many Muslims in the media make exactly the same point.

there's nowt wrong with HT. if oxford uni can give fascist movements such as the BNP a platform, i'm all for HT to gain a stronghold.

they don't promote terrorism or fascism, they only want a revival (pardon the pun) of Islam. qudos to them i say

as for nazis, they're prevalent in occupied Palestine. this dutch imbecile is the devil incarnate