Muslim anger grows at Pope speech

Sajid Iqbal —

Muslim anger grows at Pope speech

A statement from the Vatican has failed to quell criticism of Pope Benedict XVI from Muslim leaders, after he made a speech about the concept of holy war.

Speaking in Germany, the Pope quoted a 14th Century Christian emperor who said Muhammad had brought the world only "evil and inhuman" things.

read in full here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5347876.stm

pls share your views

Forum
General

You — Fri, 15 Sep 2006 - 16:50

Big deal.

It;s a non issue. Ofcourse a non Muslim will not agree with Islam.

We believe Islam is a continuation and conclusion of divine religions that were passed through revelation through prophets and messengers.

So the essence of the Message had already been revealed to other Prophets.

With the Prophet ﷺ many additional details were cleared up. Since the Christians do not Believe in Prophet Muhammad (saw), ofcourse they will disagree with what was forwarded through him (saw).

Christians were told to turn the other cheek. We are allowed to wage holy war. Alcohol was made haraam. Prayers etc added. at proscribed times. To one who did not understand like the pope 600 years ago, it would obviously seem evil, as the understanding would be that sopmeone is trying to corrupt christians and christianity.

Obviously they would call that evil.

And since we do not know why he quoted it, I sticvk by my sentiment of 'who cares'.

Guest — Fri, 15 Sep 2006 - 17:29

I think he's apologised and said he's sorry which i think is good because he didn;'t have to do that and it shows he consdieres the feelings of people like us.

Probably someone else wrote it and he read it and only afterwards realised what he had done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

You — Fri, 15 Sep 2006 - 17:35

Muslims Insult Christians; Deny divinity of Jesus

Exclusive report: Muslims have insulted the whole body of christianity by denying that Jesus as the Son of God.

Muslims claim Jesus is merely Prophet sent to guide humanity. Many christians have demanded an unequivocal apology, and also demanded that Moslems save their sould by accepting christianity.

More soon...

Beast — Fri, 15 Sep 2006 - 18:35

Saying that the Prophet of Islam brought only "evil and inhuman" things to the world is a stereotypical view that should not be uttered by a man of religion such as the Pope.

He has the right to pontificate on the virtues of Christianity and say how it is better than Islam. But he shouldn't be twisting history and encouraging prejudice like this.

You — Fri, 15 Sep 2006 - 18:42

BeastSaying that the Prophet of Islam brought only "evil and inhuman" things to the world is a stereotypical view that should not be uttered by a man of religion such as the Pope.

He has the right to pontificate on the virtues of Christianity and say how it is better than Islam. But he shouldn't be twisting history and encouraging prejudice like this.

Not his words, but a quote.

Allahuakbar — Fri, 15 Sep 2006 - 19:28

Exactly. He used a quote. He wasn't using it to make the guy look bad. He was wrong to do that. I'm just gonna ignore it, unfortunately got used to this sorta thing happening 😢

Dave — Sat, 16 Sep 2006 - 00:49

Guys,

Muslims blowing this out of proportion and turning this into another Danish Cartoon row is getting on my nerves.

I mean seriously is the response to everything even suggesting a rebuke to Islam to burn a couple effigies and riot?

"You are not peaceful"
"Oh yea! Well then I will burn down the Chilean embassy again and kill jobs in Denmark to prove you wrong, b.itch"
"Okay, I guess you proved me wrong"

The riots in Pakistan are a bit much.

Dave — Sat, 16 Sep 2006 - 00:56

Admin

Muslims Insult Christians; Deny divinity of Jesus

Exclusive report: Muslims have insulted the whole body of christianity by denying that Jesus as the Son of God.

Muslims claim Jesus is merely Prophet sent to guide humanity. Many christians have demanded an unequivocal apology, and also demanded that Moslems save their sould by accepting christianity.

More soon...

lol I dont care if Muslims disagree with the divinity of Christ - the assaults on the honor of St. Paul and the early Christian Church tax my nerves.

But lets keep this all in perspective. Religions are truly nasty things, mean things will be said and feelings necessarily hurt. If Muslims found the Popes comments insulting so be it, nothin wrong with that. Lets just not take it any further than "hey that was mean, that guy is a jack@ss"

You — Sat, 16 Sep 2006 - 02:24

My post was meant to be in jest. It had no historical context to my knowledge.

Just 'Obvious news alert!' type thing.

Sorry if it went all wrong.

One thing I want to know is why is this the main news on all the news channels? There was some (from the looks of it pretty small) protest in Pakistan. But they more or less have a tradition of protesting every friday about something.

It has been ignored elsewhere by everyone. But all the news channels and sites cannot get enough of using this as the main news, and then putting their pundits to expplain this issue.

FFS it was the main item on NewsNight!

They could have concentrated on so much real news, but oh no it has to be this.

It almost seems like the media may be playing devils advocate on this. Maybe they were thrown offguard last time, but this time they want to be there first?

I just do not get the issue. Of course a catholic will not agree with Islam. He will find it offensive the Muslim viewpoint that our faith has theologically succeeded his faith.

WHere is the clash?

and more importantly who is making a fuss? where?

Omrow — Sat, 16 Sep 2006 - 04:29

Salam

Pope's lecture was on the importance of reason and
the incompatibility of religion with violence.

He claimed that religion and violence dont go together.

Currently, the "Christian" George Bush is illegally invading
muslim nations, while the "muslim" bin Laden is terrorising the west.

To me both are evil.

To the Pope, only one is evil.

That shows his love for "reasoning".

Omrow

p.s. Also, the Pope totally forgot the Crusades led by
his predecessors. How convenient. csm

Beast — Sat, 16 Sep 2006 - 10:16

OdysseusI mean seriously is the response to everything even suggesting a rebuke to Islam to burn a couple effigies and riot?

Have there been any riots and effigy burnings in response to what the Pope said?

Dave — Sat, 16 Sep 2006 - 12:33

Beast

OdysseusI mean seriously is the response to everything even suggesting a rebuke to Islam to burn a couple effigies and riot?

Have there been any riots and effigy burnings in response to what the Pope said?

There have been both riots and effigy burnings. At least nobody was killed in the Church firebombings.

In fairness, I said it before the headlines. Call me pessimistic, I expect much, much more will come in the next several days.

You — Sat, 16 Sep 2006 - 13:12

I doubt much more will happen. It's a mountain out of a molehill.

However I must say the media in the UK are lapping up on this. It is still the main headline here in the news. In a country where there has been a clooective 'Meh' at the whole issue.

Mind boggling.

*DUST* — Sat, 16 Sep 2006 - 15:22

i agree that the riots and effigy burnings are ridiculous ways to respond, the media is having a field day. :roll:

Admin ofcourse christians disagree with muslims, but not all of them go around quoting some emperor's view that our prophet (pbuh) brought nothing but 'evil' to world. :roll: it was an incredibly irresponsible thing for the pope to do.

and Dave i'm sorry but how can you call the pope an 'idiot' and a 'jacka$$'. that's very disrespectful. :?

Dave — Sat, 16 Sep 2006 - 16:05

Apology accepted.

And to correct you I did not call him a jackass, rather I said calling him one would be a more appropriate response from various entities than threatening to assasinate him when he visits Turkey or burning down Churches and Effigies.

The latter could be interpreted as needlessly aggressive.

salaf — Sat, 16 Sep 2006 - 17:51

Salaam I'm back

My opinion on this is that muslims shouldn't care what he thinks.The fact that muslims care what he thinks is more worrying to me than the fact he's said this.

Though it is ironic that he's quoting a Greek Orthodox King considering the historic tension between Catholicism and Eastern Christianity.

Bliss — Sat, 16 Sep 2006 - 20:23

the demonstration have started, teh pope from all people i was shock that came out wth such a statement
shws wat kind of man he reli is

:evil:

Angel — Sat, 16 Sep 2006 - 21:53

What i find really odd is how stupid can people be? I mean the whole world knows ya and if you say something which is gona upset people the whole world is likely to find out, its only common sense to think before you talk, jeez!

Dawud — Sat, 16 Sep 2006 - 22:32

I believe these are the pope's words:

I was reminded of all this recently, when I read... of part of the dialogue carried on - perhaps in 1391 in the winter barracks near Ankara - by the erudite Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Paleologus and an educated Persian on the subject of Christianity and Islam, and the truth of both.

In the seventh conversation...the emperor touches on the theme of the holy war. Without descending to details, such as the difference in treatment accorded to those who have the "Book" and the "infidels", he addresses his interlocutor with a startling brusqueness on the central question about the relationship between religion and violence in general, saying: "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

The emperor, after having expressed himself so forcefully, goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable. Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. "God," he says, "is not pleased by blood - and not acting reasonably is contrary to God's nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats."

This emperor, would be the one for Muslims to say, he does not understand Islam.

The emboldened bit is inline with Islam, effigy burners and the like would do well to heed it. Very good advice for Da'ee's.

Conclusion: Pope is a little unsensitive, but his point seems to be on the emperor saying 'it is unvirtuous to spread by the sword' rather than the bit which Muslims find painful.

Omrow — Sat, 16 Sep 2006 - 23:05

Media is not sure whether or not Pope has apologised to muslims.

Is he sorry or isn't he?

Two different views:

Front Page of CNN:

Pope concerned, not apologizing for Islam remarks

Pope shows concern but no apology for Islam comments

CNN September 16, 2006 11:36 a.m. EDT

Pope Benedict XVI is "very upset" that comments he made about Islam caused anger to Muslims. But some Muslim leaders are still angry as the Vatican statement Saturday stopped short of an explicit apology. Muslims around the world are protesting against the pope's quoting of a 14th century emperor who criticized the Prophet Mohammed.

Front Page of BBC:

BBC Saturday, 16 September 2006, 15:05 GMT 16:05 UK

Pope 'sorry' for offence to Islam

Pope Benedict XVI says he is sorry about the offence caused by his speech referring to the Muslim faith.

yashmaki — Mon, 18 Sep 2006 - 10:11

i agree with Admin and salaf. There are millions of non muslims across the world many of whom dislike our faith, and pass insulting comments. What are muslims planning to do hush up everyone who disagrees or insults their beliefs?

We shouldn't command or expect non muslims to respect our faith, just as they don't expect it of us. Sure it would nice if they'd respect it if not agree with it, but that's not how the world works is it?

An apology from the Pope won't make any difference to me, coz this man is a catholic he doesn't even accept Muhammad ﷺ as a prophet, that's more of an insult to me than any 14th century quote.

Aren't there more important things to get on with?

salaf — Tue, 19 Sep 2006 - 11:07

Irshad Manji has stepped in revealing to everyone that the Pope's speech was actually about interfaith dialogue. Everyone else (including the church) had described it as being about faith and reason. Apparently she knows better.

What makes this really odd is that he has publically stated that he doesn't believe interfaith dialogue is possible with religions other than Judaism.